Geelong - never going out of premiership contention?

[harmesy 37]

What, so Carlton just have no responsibility whatsoever in their half of the Tuohy trade?

Carlton had the weaker hand. Market rate - that is all I am asking for.

With a weaker hand-you can't get a fair trade.

Trades in the old days involved you swapping a player out of your team to get another player. Teams don't have to give up players now, just speculative draft picks.

eg John Pitura trade back in the 1970s. Richmond REALLLLLLY wanted Pitura. They wanted him so much they gave up 3 great players for him.

If the Pitura trade was done now - Richmond would have given up a 1st and 2nd round draft pick & No established players. The system doesn't work, as the draft isn't a good mechanism. Get rid of the draft? It is one option.

 

[MadMundy]

As much as I hate to say it since Geelong are my most hated team, hats off to them for being a consistently well-run and professional club for what feels like forever. Always bringing in players to fill holes that need to be filled. Something i wish my club could have done better earlier but over the past few years our recruiting has become pretty good so I won't complain.

 

[PhatBoy]

Carlton had the weaker hand. Market rate - that is all I am asking for.

With a weaker hand-you can't get a fair trade.

Trades in the old days involved you swapping a player out of your team to get another player. Teams don't have to give up players now, just speculative draft picks.

eg John Pitura trade back in the 1970s. Richmond REALLLLLLY wanted Pitura. They wanted him so much they gave up 3 great players for him.

If the Pitura trade was done now - Richmond would have given up a 1st and 2nd round draft pick & No established players. The system doesn't work, as the draft isn't a good mechanism. Get rid of the draft? It is one option.

Market rate?

Market rate and systems is what has seen your club with more high draft picks than the LA Clippers in the 1990s. It’s not the system’s fault that Carlton and Melbourne have continually found a way to f*** it up.

 

[Whiskers]

I just find it hilarious how everyone wrote us off this year like a bunch of sheep.
We had the 2nd best % last year. Beat hawks just once and we are 4th.
People surprised at our kids.
All we needed was to have players better than Zac Guthrie, Parsons, Murdoch And Thurlow.

As if this should be a surprise to anyone!
We have never been bad. We have however had an issue in finals. So until we do well in them I’m not satisfied.
I knew we were good and so should’ve everyone else.

 

[nameless]

3-9 Finals record since their last flag, with a few of those being beltings means there is something wrong with the gameplan for mine.

Not sure if that's been corrected this year, but I don't trust them in finals.
Will always be up there due to home ground + less travel which is good for them.

But when the heat is on they go to water.

 

[Cdog71]

Swans went 15 years in a row playing finals and now their falling away a bit.
Cats will have their challenges.
They’ve always had good role players
coming through on middle of the road money to be able move dough around to attract trades.
It’s not just developing promising kids

 

[harmesy 37]

Market rate?

Market rate and systems is what has seen your club with more high draft picks than the LA Clippers in the 1990s. It’s not the system’s fault that Carlton and Melbourne have continually found a way to f*** it up.

Carlton keep going back to the draft. It is pure speculation.
Geelong keep going back to established GOOD players from other clubs- not speculation.
Around those good players other young player can be brought in in an established winning culture.

Don't get me wrong- Geelong recruiting is good. Wells very good. Chapman 31 etc, yet they can build upon solid foundations. The draft is not the gold mine it is sold as....so get rid of the draft. Or modify the trading scheme.

Eg Dangerfield trade- Geelong should have had to give up an established GOOD player AND draft picks. Have a scale or weighting.
Dangerfield is a Brownlow medallist for gawd sake. I actually feel a bit sorry for Adelaide. System didn't give them market rate.

 

[bluespooner]

There like the bulldogs in that they get very kindly umpired.

 

[HeavyPop]

They look good this year. It seems a few of their middle tier players have stepped up and are impacting games, rather than just competing. Dalhaus and Rohan were good gets too. Rohan will be interesting to keep an eye on now that he is out of the Buddy focused Swans forward line.

 

[hk89]

I just find it hilarious how everyone wrote us off this year like a bunch of sheep.

As if this should be a surprise to anyone!

By taking this line I think you are underselling how effective Scott's changes have been and how quickly your kids have stepped up. Geelong were underwhelming last year away from skilled stadium. You did have a very healthy percentage, but two late season 100+ point smashings of GC and Freo at skilled had a fair bit to do with that.

You went 2 wins from 8 games at the G, which you made up for by going 8 from 9 at Skilled. Having said that, you probably had one of the toughest draws in the competition last year, and probably only two really disappointing losses against poorer teams. Did think you looked cooked in the elimination final, so unpleasantly surprised by how strongly you've come out this year. First round win especially impressive given how good Pies looked against Richmond. Expecting we'll be receiving an easter Monday mauling in a couple of weeks.

 

[PhatBoy]

Carlton keep going back to the draft. It is pure speculation.
Geelong keep going back to established GOOD players from other clubs- not speculation.
Around those good players other young player can be brought in in an established winning culture.

Don't get me wrong- Geelong recruiting is good. Wells very good. Chapman 31 etc, yet they can build upon solid foundations. The draft is not the gold mine it is sold as....so get rid of the draft. Or modify the trading scheme.

Eg Dangerfield trade- Geelong should have had to give up an established GOOD player AND draft picks. Have a scale or weighting.
Dangerfield is a Brownlow medallist for gawd sake. I actually feel a bit sorry for Adelaide. System didn't give them market rate.

Dangerfield is literally the only established star we’ve picked up. Henderson and Tuohy were serviceable with you guys but not world beaters.

All anyone could say about Dahlhaus and Rohan were how ordinary they were.
Stanley was a failure at two clubs before Geelong.


Only the Dangerfield trade was lopsided without the benefit of hindsight. The others purely look lopsided because the players’ output has lifted at Geelong.

 

[DangerHere]

There like the bulldogs in that they get very kindly umpired.

There = like “over there”

They’re = they are

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Anyone predicting Geelong's downfall while that group is still playing probably aren't thinking too clearly. A large contributor to Geelong's sustained success is the longevity (and consistent competitiveness) of guys like Taylor, Selwood and Hawkins, plus Ablett if he counts. My main concern about Geelong is still reliance on their top end, but they seem to be doing a lot better this year at having younger contributors (Atkins, Clark, Constable, Ratugolea, Miers) rather than always relying on the elite top end to carry the load.
Once Taylor and Hawkins are gone in particular, it will be interesting to see whether those key positions are covered. If so, I see no reason that Geelong doesn't remain perpetually in finals, especially with the GMHBA advantage

Am surprised being a Doggies supporter, you didn't give Dahlhaus a mention coz I believe that he has been the glue to this team atm. His tackle count would be close to the league leader.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Am surprised being a Doggies supporter, you didn't give Dahlhaus a mention coz I believe that he has been the glue to this team atm. His tackle count would be close to the league leader.

Was more focusing on the players at either end of age groups (29/30+ and the really young ones), with Dahl being right in the middle. Him performing so far has been a big benefit to the Cats (and you're right, he was leading the tackle count at end of round 2). So long as he remains consistent, it will be a huge bonus to Geelong as he is a very talented small pressure forward (just had dogshit form in the last year or two playing for us). A new environment looks to have done him good, as he needed the reset

 

[The Final Word]

Zach Tuohy - left the Blues, Carlton gets dud Smedts and a 1st round draft pick. Whoophee do!

What, so Carlton just have no responsibility whatsoever in their half of the Tuohy trade?

They got even less than that. It was Smedts and Geelong's first rounder for Tuohey and Carlton's second rounder. All based on, no doubt that the Blues were turning a corner and their second round pick would've been 26-30, while the Cats were on the slide and their first rounder would've been 7-12.

Of course Carlton were rubbish and their 2nd rounder ended up being 22, and Geelong had a great 2016 and their first rounder was 15.

So Tuohey for Smedts and moving up 7 places from 22 to 15. Oh and we threw in pick 63 in 2016 as steak knives/Cameron Polson.

So whenever you hear we traded a first rounder for Tuohey, it's misrepresenting what happened. By a lot.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

The system is not free market. We are sold a lie on the whole "draft is the miracle cure for everything". Meanwhile, Geelong is busy trading and getting established players for less than a real market rate would dictate.

Not true! Geelong have what may be considered advantages by some over other Vic clubs coz of a good culture and having a more country 'laid back' atmosphere but the distance could be considered a disadvantage by some also.

Luke Dalhaus - approx $500,000 per year. For him to go to Carlton they would need to pay $750,000. Why? Cause Geelong is a contender, Carlton isn't.

That's prolly around the mark but Dahlhaus' form of the past couple of seasons would suggest that he wouldn't be demanding a 750k salary.

Zach Tuohy - left the Blues, Carlton gets dud Smedts and a 1st round draft pick. Whoophee do!

So happy to have gotten rid of Smedts Whoopee!

Geelong can prop up their team by picking the best players out of other clubs.

You make it seem like the Cats get the privilege of any player but not as simple as that. Obviously, Devon Smith would have been a better choice over GAJ.

The whole Dangerfield trade was a joke too. Adelaide got Gore- whoever he is?, pick 9 and pick 28...Whoopee do!
Dangerfield is elite. In a real market you would be giving up more than that for Dangerfield.

Remember that we lost GAJ for 2 late first round picks, when GAJ was arguably the best player in the comp.

In a real market, Adelaide should have got in return an established player from Geelong (eg Guthrie/Caddy in 2016), plus draft picks. Geelong win matches thanks to Dangerfield. What do Adelaide get in return? Gore...wow!

The Cats gave much more than the crows would have gotten from other clubs that would have played hard ball with trade negotiations but the
Crows were obligated to let Danger go coz he wanted to return to Geelong after serving them for 8years.

Geelong are a contender this year. They use the system well, they have a great recruiter in Stephen Wells, they get good young players in as well...but without the AFL system as it stands they would have dropped down the ladder by now. Barring injuries, should be top 4 this year.

Mere speculation, depends on a lot of things but the Cats have a good culture and that helps a lot.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Sorry but according to this - no club has been in contention since their last flag.

I'm not saying a good H&A season needs to translate to a premiership every time. If you're finishing high in the 8 for multiple years, however, then you should at least expect competitive performances in finals. Geelong is 3-9 in finals since 2011. They have had 4 top 4 finishes in that time, including 3 top 2 finishes, for a return of 0 GF appearances. Despite beating sides during the H&A, sometimes multiple times, they will frequently get completely run over by them in finals, and in many finals games under Scott they have simply been non-competitive.

Like we found out when we lost Scarlett, Mooney, Ottens, Corey, Bartel, Enright, etc etc?

The difference between the period where those players left and the period where Taylor, Selwood, Ablett, Hawkins, Dangerfield will leave is that in the former, we had fundamental key players who were young during the run of success in 2007-11 and were just coming into their prime when those older players left. These players - Selwood, Taylor, Hawkins - formed a core that could be built upon and allowed us to remain competitive despite so much quality leaving. We then built on that with Dangerfield, other mature-age recruits and a small set of young players. At present, who is the next Selwood and Hawkins? When Hawkins retires, what is the key position forward plan? In the next few years, we could be without Selwood, Dangerfield, Ablett and Kelly. What happens to the midfield then?

Those things are unlikely - and yet they all happened. Everything in footy seems unlikely, until it happens.

Star players banging the door down to come to Geelong is not a usual thing. The set of circumstances with Dangerfield, where he selected Geelong and only Geelong as a destination due to family ties, was unique and unlikely to be replicated.

 

[EasternTiger]

They are playing beautiful football, just at the minute!

 

[Biggy_Boy]

In a real market, Adelaide should have got in return an established player from Geelong (eg Guthrie/Caddy in 2016), plus draft picks. Geelong win matches thanks to Dangerfield. What do Adelaide get in return? Gore...wow!

Man... we should've given them Guthrie. Adelaide would be fuming even harder if we got away with that one.

 

[Xtreme]

They’ve been in premiership contention?

They're a great H&A side but their game plan has not stood up to finals football for 8 years now!

Time to think outside the box and come up with something new.

 

[harmesy 37]

Dangerfield - could you argue he was the difference between the teams last night?

32 possessions and an outstanding goal out of the midfield.. bang! game over.

Adelaide's tactics, slow motion around the boundary didn't help, but let's say Adelaide played Geelong without Dangerfield...well, what is the point. They have him, right.

The system is what it is. Trades will continue on their current trajectory with the stronger clubs benefitting.

Good players just aren't traded anymore in a swap for a great player. It is only draft picks for a good player.

Let's say a club made a play for Dusty Martin or DeGoey. What would they give up? a 1st round pick and a future 2nd round draft pick?
Big deal. That's no sacrifice.
Should be that, plus a good player.
eg if North getting either one - give back in return Ziebell, Goldstein or a good player at least.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Expecting we'll be receiving an easter Monday mauling in a couple of weeks.

LOLz you just trying to lull us into a false sense of security. You know it going to be a bruiser and anything can happen in those types of games!

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Dangerfield - could you argue he was the difference between the teams last night?
32 possessions and an outstanding goal out of the midfield.. bang! game over.
Adelaide's tactics, slow motion around the boundary didn't help, but let's say Adelaide played Geelong without Dangerfield...well, what is the point. They have him, right.
The system is what it is. Trades will continue on their current trajectory with the stronger clubs benefitting.
Good players just aren't traded anymore in a swap for a great player. It is only draft picks for a good player.
Let's say a club made a play for Dusty Martin or DeGoey. What would they give up? a 1st round pick and a future 2nd round draft pick?
Big deal. That's no sacrifice.
Should be that, plus a good player.
eg if North getting either one - give back in return Ziebell, Goldstein or a good player at least.

All this coming from a supporter of the 'Bluebaggers', which was one of the powerhouses of the comp not too long ago! Your club has been its own worst enemy over recent years! No-one to blame but your club's management.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

The system is not free market. We are sold a lie on the whole "draft is the miracle cure for everything". Meanwhile, Geelong is busy trading and getting established players for less than a real market rate would dicta
Zach Tuohy - left the Blues, Carlton gets dud Smedts and a 1st round draft pick. Whoophee do!

Geelong can prop up their team by picking the best players out of other clubs.

The whole Dangerfield trade was a joke too. Adelaide got Gore- whoever he is?, pick 9 and pick 28...Whoopee do!

Dangerfield is elite. In a real market you would be giving up more than that for Dangerfield.

In a real market, Adelaide should have got in return an established player from Geelong (eg Guthrie/Caddy in 2016), plus draft picks. Geelong win matches thanks to Dangerfield. What do Adelaide get in return? Gore...wow!

Geelong are a contender this year. They use the system well, they have a great recruiter in Stephen Wells, they get good young players in as well...but without the AFL system as it stands they would have dropped down the ladder by now. Barring injuries, should be top 4 this year.

Zac Tuohy only left Carlton - because he was disgusted with their low ball contract offer to him - he was forced out

Its a bit like McEvoy - a good ruckman - and good o/head mark - StKilda say they are in a rebuild we will cash him in - what a load of nonsense - you hang on to your good players

 

[gavaniacono]

Being thereabouts for so long is no mean feat. Hope my club can get half of that success.

This year does look different to previous post 2011 years. There is a bit of extra gusto and verve about the younger blokes, and the older blokes too are energised. The win over Pies now looks better than it did at the time. Last night's win was a ripper, esp the last Q.

Scott has finally got something fresh happening it seems contra the hitherto week to week fiddling.