Swans have ten premierships

[Cyclops]

There is no argument about what clubs can or cannot count in their own history books. Very different to the history books of this specific league (the VFL/AFL).

This.

No one has taken anything away from Geelong. This doddering clown Carter wants the League to recognize flags it did not award, at a time it did not exist.

It's a stupid discussion, I havent seen anything like an intelligent point from the Carter camp. When they aren't outright lying ("everyone forgets") they're advancing illogical conclusions ("ths VFA is like the AFL so it's the same, exactly the same").

 

[The Lobbster]

Yeah, I get it. It's the same deal with the English Premier League. You go to their official site or the wikipedia page and they only include records or acknowledge the top flight of English football from 1992 onwards. But try and tell a Liverpool fan they've only won 1 title instead of 19, for example.

SANFL is an entirely seperate league with different teams in a different state that didn't evolve into the national competition the VFA/VFL/AFL did. Not sure why they should be included here.

Tbf and this might have already been covered, the VFA absolutely did not evolve into the VFL (historic VFL that is not the current VFL). The VFL and VFA competed for many years. If clubs want to count whatever then they might as well because who really cares. However the VFL/AFL started in 1897.

EDIT: For those interested, the Gaz man on YouTube is currently running through the history of Australian football. It’s a great series highlighting a history of the code that isn’t well spread, with most historical docos focusing on players not the actual sport/league. It’s sad that more people don’t know about some of the insane shit that happened back in the day.

 

[Sentinel]

Yeah, I get it. It's the same deal with the English Premier League. You go to their official site or the wikipedia page and they only include records or acknowledge the top flight of English football from 1992 onwards. But try and tell a Liverpool fan they've only won 1 title instead of 19, for example.

SANFL is an entirely seperate league with different teams in a different state that didn't evolve into the national competition the VFA/VFL/AFL did. Not sure why they should be included here.

The VFA didn't evolve into the national competition, only the VFL did.

 

[Eshay187]

Who gives a crap. Let the historians argue over it.

What matters now is that Collingwood are gawwwn, Adelaide are not living up the expectations, Saints might be good, Essendon have a very very very scary edge, Hawks are bad, where are Port/Brisbane at?, and how about the Sydney teams?

 

[Taper]

So if the Pies form a merger with North King Island Bulldogs we'll have a gazllion flags? Waow.

Carter's sorry cope strategies for Geelongs mediocre silverware problem is a sad exercise in intellectual dishonesty. No one "forgot" Geelong had VFA flags, and IIRC all of those he claims were award post facto by journalists. Even by his own shabby illogic he adds nothing to the cupboard.

All clubs should be proud of all flags they have won, but we contest the Big League, the AFL which was formerly the VFL. Its a lovely troll to claim journo-guessed non flags from a different league and gets a rise, but you're making a laughing stock of this Carter bloke who hasn't got two brain cells to rub together these days. Its borderline elder abuse to let him disgrace himself in this way.

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms about Geelong and our 70s/80s VFA premierships whenever this discussion is brought up.
I mean, the thread is about Sydney recognising the premierships they won during that era - yet multiple people in this thread want to make it about Geelong.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Good on them, but I believe they are selling themselves short and that those flags should be formally recognised in the club's premiership list by the AFL - just as Geelong's, Carlton's, Melbourne's, Collingwood's and Essendon's (etc.) extra flag/s should be.

I believe that all flags from 1870 should be counted. That is, all flags from the premier Australian Rules competition in the country at the time (sorry Port Adelaide), which contained the majority of the teams which then made up the VFL in 1897. What many people don't know is that these flags were in fact counted in each club's official totals up until about 1920, before the revisionists came along and essentially erased them from history. It's all unpacked in Colin Carter's book - 'Football's Forgotten Years'.

As we know, Carter has been pushing for history to be properly restored for some time now. Trying to correct what the revionists all but wiped out 100 years ago, and to properly honor the accomplishments of these great and pioneering teams of the past with the respect and recognition they deserve.

Clubs like Sydney, Carlton, Melbourne and Essendon should really get behind the push too and show solidarity with Carter and Geelong to make this important restoration of history come into fruition. Let's be honest, if Collingwood had more than 1 flag to gain, Eddie would be first in line kicking and screaming.

And Geelong adding 7 flags isn’t influencing your view at all right?

Why can’t things just stay as they are.

 

[Sentinel]

I don't understand why everyone gets so up in arms about Geelong and our 70s/80s VFA premierships whenever this discussion is brought up.
I mean, the thread is about Sydney recognising the premierships they won during that era - yet multiple people in this thread want to make it about Geelong.

Because half of the article linked in the OP is discussing Colin Carter's delusional push to do that.

This thread would otherwise be a pretty short one - no one really cares how Sydney wish to recognise their history, they're free to do as they please.

 

[rapidfire7]

And Geelong adding 7 flags isn’t influencing your view at all right?

Why can’t things just stay as they are.

That's all Col wants. To leave things as they were before the revisionists essentially deleted those flags from team's official tallies circa 1930s/1940s.

View attachment CATS PRESIDENT COLIN CARTER INTERVIEW - Footyology with Rohan Connolly & Mark Fine 2.mp4

 

[Cleansweep17]

That's all Col wants. To leave things as they were before the revisionists essentially deleted those flags from team's official tallies circa 1930s/1940s.

View attachment 1940215

Well I don’t think we should be changing anything and I don’t believe it will. It woykd create a massive sooking fest especially with the interstate fans.

 

[Cyclops]

It's a fair troll but no one can take this seriously.

Carter as a former commissioner has embarrassed himself with this demented garbage.

Geelong can claim whatever they want. Begging the League to include revisionist non flags from a rival comp is plain wrong. It casts doubt on Carters actions in office that he makes such claims now.

Has he always been this deranged?

 

[99cents]

ONly count 21st centruey

 

[99cents]

1. Geelong 4
2. Hawthorn 4
3. Brisbane 3
4. Richmond 3
5. Sydney 2
6. = West Coast, Collingwood 2

Ess, PA, WB, Melb 1


No Premierships (still hoping)
Carlton
Adelaide
St Kilda
Tasmania
Fremantle
North Melbourne
GWS
Gold Coast

 

[Back One Out]

Read Carter's book...

Yeah... Or maybe I'll just go on living my life...

 

[Back One Out]

4 Hawthorn, 4 Geelong
3 Brisbane, 3 Richmond
2 Sydney, 2 West Coast, 2 Collingwood

Please explain to me why Collingwood's 1990 flag should be counted in the modern premiership tally, but not Hawthorn's 1988 and 1989 flags.

 

[rapidfire7]

Yeah... Or maybe I'll just go on living my life...

An Evening with COLIN CARTER

Join us for a friendly, FREE community presentation that features an engaging talk and discussion, followed by light refreshments and a book...

www.trybooking.com

Come. I'll shout you a beer.

 

[Partridge]

Please explain to me why Collingwood's 1990 flag should be counted in the modern premiership tally, but not Hawthorn's 1988 and 1989 flags.

Precisely.

Especially as the change from 1989 to 1990 was literally a name change and very little else. It was the same clubs, with the same names, with the same colours and jumpers, with the same players, playing at the same grounds, and in most instances the same coaches. But apparently it was a different competition because of the name change? Or that a player getting paid $150,000 a year in 1989 wasn't "professional" but a player getting $200,000 a year in 1990 suddenly was. Yeah that makes sense.

There's a small exercise anyone can do which is quite illuminating - check some of the rules that were in place prior to 1897. As late as 1894 teams didn't even play the same amount of games during the season.

Are they part of club records? Sure. But the premiership total that matters starts from 1897. Hard not to see desperate insecurity as the motivating factor for anyone claiming otherwise.

 

[_Mike_]

Please explain to me why Collingwood's 1990 flag should be counted in the modern premiership tally, but not Hawthorn's 1988 and 1989 flags.

Here's why

ONly count 21st centruey

Which Collingwood won 2010 & 2023 giving them their 2. 99cents in his post counts from 2000-

 

[Sentinel]

Here's why





Which Collingwood won 2010 & 2023 giving them their 2. 99cents in his post counts from 2000-

I mean even that is debatable given the 21st century technically started on 01/01/2001, not 01/01/2000, so Essendon's flag shouldn't count under that metric. And it's still an arbitrary line.

What's not debatable or arbitrary? When the VFL/AFL competition commenced, which was in 1897.

 

[Dirty Bird]

Yes. And they do whenever anyone asks.

As well as those won by the pamfc est 1997.

 

[MUFASA12]

They have 2 more than us and we have zero. The end.

 

[_Mike_]

I mean even that is debatable given the 21st century technically started on 01/01/2001, not 01/01/2000, so Essendon's flag shouldn't count under that metric. And it's still an arbitrary line.

What's not debatable or arbitrary? When the VFL/AFL competition commenced, which was in 1897.

Just quoting the poster..

 

[Back One Out]

Here's why

Which Collingwood won 2010 & 2023 giving them their 2. 99cents in his post counts from 2000-

When discussing flag tallies, I reckon we should ignore every premiership which was won more than 12 months ago

1 Collingwood (reigning premiers)

0 Sydney, Carlton, Brisbane, Geelong, GWS, Fremantle, Essendon, Melbourne, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, Adelaide, St Kilda, West Coast, North Melb, Richmond

 

[Tiger2709]

That's all Col wants. To leave things as they were before the revisionists essentially deleted those flags from team's official tallies circa 1930s/1940s.

View attachment 1940215

Would Col be so keen if Geelong weren't the beneficiary of an extra 7 flags from a totally different competition.

Its interesting to note Carlton aren't putting their hands up for their extra flags from a different competition to be counted?

Geelong should count them and celebrate them within their own club if they feel the need but wouldn't it be better for Geelong if you just started winning more flags in this competition?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

That's all Col wants. To leave things as they were before the revisionists essentially deleted those flags from team's official tallies circa 1930s/1940s.

View attachment 1940215

Why did they delete them in the “1930s/1940s”?

 

[Altum Volantes]

Easy done.

1990 onwards - AFL Flags
1897-1989 - VFL Flags
Before 1897 - whatever league they were playing in flags.

AFL recognises the current, 34 year old competition as the current relevant premiership.

AFL recognise the VFL flags as…now this will stun you…VFL flags - acknowledging the VFL was the state based predecessor to the national competition.

AFL does not recognise the flags won prior to 1897 or in other state based competitions but if clubs choose to recognise them and ‘claim’ those to their tally then they can do so within their own 4 walls.

AFLW flags are a whole different league (sport?) and are recognised as being women’s football premierships.