Coach John Longmire - Part III

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Heard a Swans Fan on SEN.. He wondered whether H has lost the players. The side just looks depressed. Maybe they're forced to watch Horse pressure.

 

[SB70]

Guess the hope was that the old guys could go one more time while Buddy was still awesome and the young guys would all arrive.
Kennedy, McVeigh, Jack, Grundy, Smith of 2016 and Heeney, Mills, Jones, Hayward, Florent, Blakey of 2021 was a long shot but the only chance we had (or have if unlike me you haven't given up hope on that one).
Once this is over, we will find out if he can coach. Could be ugly but we seem to have recruited to move it faster (Florent, Ling, Stoddart, McInerney, Foot) and cover the ground (Dawson, Clarke, Thurlow, McCartin) so lets see it.
I think Brisbane and St Kilda will both fade and miss finals but I reckon the fans will have a good year.
It is hard to think that Kennedy and Buddy will not be part of the next serious run at a flag but if it is true best to know now.

 

[caesar88]

Guess the hope was that the old guys could go one more time while Buddy was still awesome and the young guys would all arrive.
Kennedy, McVeigh, Jack, Grundy, Smith of 2016 and Heeney, Mills, Jones, Hayward, Florent, Blakey of 2021 was a long shot but the only chance we had (or have if unlike me you haven't given up hope on that one).
Once this is over, we will find out if he can coach. Could be ugly but we seem to have recruited to move it faster (Florent, Ling, Stoddart, McInerney, Foot) and cover the ground (Dawson, Clarke, Thurlow, McCartin) so lets see it.
I think Brisbane and St Kilda will both fade and miss finals but I reckon the fans will have a good year.
It is hard to think that Kennedy and Buddy will not be part of the next serious run at a flag but if it is true best to know now.

It's fine for Bud and Kennedy to be part of our next flat tilt but they shouldn't be such a pivotal part. Neither should Parker. Our youngsters will continue to produce supporting-performances if they continue to be played as supporting players to those club legends. Eg. Move Buddy up the ground and make McCartin the CHF and the focal point of our attacking 50 instead. Eg. Start Kennedy on the bench and throw Dawson, Heeney and Florent into the guts to start off. Eg. Use this stretch without McVeigh to play COR or Stoddart as rebounding defenders. Eg. Unleash Hewett to be a ball-magnet and maybe make Jack or Kennedy play a tagging role for a few games.

Horse has done an excellent job at getting all of these young, up and coming pieces into the team, but now he's gotta actually do something with em. It won't happen if he continues to play them in roles where they will inevitably end up supporting characters in the Swans Champions Show.

 

[J_Moore]

People are just on board the "Longmire is chip chip crap" sack the coach and get Clarkson (or a Clarkson apprentice) bandwagon.

The funny thing is, the team that played (and still plays) the "chip chip" style is Hawthorn. It won them a bunch of flags. We've gone from "slingshot footy" to trying this "short kick - mark" style. We're not there yet, but we're showing signs of getting it. Still turning it over, but I have faith we'll get better at running into space, timing leads and picking the targets the more we do it. In recent seasons we seem to be trying to recruit for it with quick kids with good footskills which is what is required for the leading and precision kicking to make that gameplan work. And before someone mentions it, yes we got Clarke, but we needed another hard inside extractor. Clarke may not be that guy, but we needed someone, and he was available. Other than him, we've been going for pacy inside/outside players with good footskills (Ling, Stoddart, Florent, Macinerny , Rowbottom).

What i find hilarious though is that everyone wanted Clarkson to improve us. Yet we're trying to use a game style similar to Clarkson's that worked so well at Hawthorn. So while they're bagging Longmire for trying a chip-chip game style, they are full of praise for Clarkson and his chip-chip game style.

Bottom line, people don't know what they want. They want us to play fast exciting footy, while simultaneously wanting Longmire to be like Clarkson, who instilled a slow, methodical kick-mark gamestyle.

Yeah my read on it is we’re trying to develop a gameplan where we control possession with as many uncontested marks as possible, as a response to the manic pressure style of Richmond etc.

But our players aren’t very good at it. Footskills are ordinary, and the leading patterns seem poorly coached. The players are just not in the right spots and when they are the kick misses them.

And we still get murdered on the spread. Either too slow or too slow to react.

 

[Blacky]

We suck at switching play and our forward structure is no good (a big part of why there are so many turnovers imo).

 

[bungee]

Ahem.... KJ sticks his head out of a bowl of trippa parmigiana and says hi there Bungee. Last night he butchered most of his few possessions.

You need to watch the game B52. Kizza was one of the cleaner ball users and often his possies led to goals.

 

[bungee]

That

Yeah my read on it is we’re trying to develop a gameplan where we control possession with as many uncontested marks as possible, as a response to the manic pressure style of Richmond etc.

But our players aren’t very good at it. Footskills are ordinary, and the leading patterns seem poorly coached. The players are just not in the right spots and when they are the kick misses them.

And we still get murdered on the spread. Either too slow or too slow to react.

That'll come with more games into our young players. They're skilled but need to be able to do it under real pressure. That's the difference between dropping 40m kicks into wheelie bins and pinpointing a pass on the run while being tackled and without thinking.

 

[bungee]

Richmond were a younger side last night

We'd have just as likely cracked them if we'd applied the same amount of pressure. That was a big difference.

For what it's worth I noticed that Richmond hardly ever take possession in close quarters but prefer to tap it on to someone who is clear. It's not random hitting it forward, they just keep hitting it out of reach so there's no-one to tackle. Contrast that with Swans looking for clean possession and often getting caught. A typical example was Mills waiting just inside defensive 50 for the ball to bounce to him and jumps up to take clean possession while 3 Richmond players wrap him up. Outside the circle were a number of Swans players hoping for the spill. Had he tapped the ball to any of them they'd have been free.

 

[The King!]

We'd have just as likely cracked them if we'd applied the same amount of pressure. That was a big difference.

For what it's worth I noticed that Richmond hardly ever take possession in close quarters but prefer to tap it on to someone who is clear. It's not random hitting it forward, they just keep hitting it out of reach so there's no-one to tackle. Contrast that with Swans looking for clean possession and often getting caught. A typical example was Mills waiting just inside defensive 50 for the ball to bounce to him and jumps up to take clean possession while 3 Richmond players wrap him up. Outside the circle were a number of Swans players hoping for the spill. Had he tapped the ball to any of them they'd have been free.

Modern footy seems to reward the person who doesnt take possession too, theres not an incentive, better to hover over it and draw a free

 

[bedford]

Wallace just said on SEN that we went with a new game plan , go through the centre at all times , but turned it over and after half time changed it , as we were no good at it.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Wallace just said on SEN that we went with a new game plan , go through the centre at all times , but turned it over and after half time changed it , as we were no good at it.

That’s even worse the fact that it only takes half a game to abandon the game plan. Happened last year against GC too- only that was a quarter and a half.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

You need to watch the game B52. Kizza was one of the cleaner ball users and often his possies led to goals.

He butchered half his dozen possies

 

[caesar88]

Wallace just said on SEN that we went with a new game plan , go through the centre at all times , but turned it over and after half time changed it , as we were no good at it.

Sounds about right. How we’re supposed to improve at this game style if we scrap it at the first sign of it failing. (See: the Gold Coast game at the SCG last year)

 

[RUNVS]

Wallace just said on SEN that we went with a new game plan , go through the centre at all times , but turned it over and after half time changed it , as we were no good at it.

I remember that within 3 minutes of the beginning of the game we already had so many players flooded back in defence that when we tried to move it forward there was no one to kick it to. How can a team go into a game with such a defensive mindset.

 

[caesar88]

I remember that within 3 minutes of the beginning of the game we already had so many players flooded back in defence that when we tried to move it forward there was no one to kick it to. How can a team go into a game with such a defensive mindset.

No easy fix, Horse just has to trust his players more and trust that if he's instructed them to play in a more attacking manner, that they will eventually get it right. Rome wasn't built in a day, but construction also wasn't called off at the first sign of a slaver's death on the job.

 

[bedford]

What a strange way to put it !

 

[caesar88]

What a strange way to put it !

Grim, but fair IMO

 

[The King!]

Rome building wasn’t telecast was it

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Rome building wasn’t telecast was it

Would be as exciting as our gameplan

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Modern footy seems to reward the person who doesnt take possession too, theres not an incentive, better to hover over it and draw a free

Bulldogs started that. Punishing the guy who goes in looking to take possession is pathetic IMO. But the "interpretations" are such that it's a legitimate strategy & one we haven't adapted to very well at all.

Likewise the shrug for head high contact or the "flick" pass (i.e. throw).

All things I detest but seem to be acceptable & legal strategies in todays "interpretations".

Just makes me feel sick that the game is going down that path... I want to see guys rewarded for winning possession of the ball... not volley balling it around the field.

 

[caesar88]

Rome building wasn’t telecast was it

Thank god because the building part wasn't pretty, but look at her now!

In all seriousness, it's the AFL's fault for giving us so many primetime games again this year, despite us doing SFA to warrant them based on our 2018 games. So we're going through the ordeals of a rebuilding team in primetime most weeks. Yes it's ugly and yes it will bring external pressure but if that can force Horse to change his ways then it's a good thing IMO.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Rome building wasn’t telecast was it

No free to air, tho there was coverage of #Caesar88 ancestor's tour of Inner Pomgolia (aka England). That tour introduced cricket,tho in a more brutal form

 

[TheMase]

I remember that within 3 minutes of the beginning of the game we already had so many players flooded back in defence that when we tried to move it forward there was no one to kick it to. How can a team go into a game with such a defensive mindset.

And only moments later, when the ball was in our forward half, all the players had pushed up and Richmond had an almost empty forward half.

It’s called a forward press and it is modern footy. Teams do it to us regularly as we are so poor at combating it. We used to be pretty good at doing it to opposition teams.

It’s modern footy, I don’t like it really, but it is what it is. You see empty forward lines all the time, it isn’t just us. Other teams just seem to spread harder than us enabling them to break through.

 

[RW]

Bulldogs started that. Punishing the guy who goes in looking to take possession is pathetic IMO. But the "interpretations" are such that it's a legitimate strategy & one we haven't adapted to very well at all.

Likewise the shrug for head high contact or the "flick" pass (i.e. throw).

All things I detest but seem to be acceptable & legal strategies in todays "interpretations".

Just makes me feel sick that the game is going down that path... I want to see guys rewarded for winning possession of the ball... not volley balling it around the field.

That to me is one of the main causes of this board's complaints with the coaching IMO - I feel we are fast becoming a casualty of the AFL shifting the goalposts to favour certain styles of play adopted by certain clubs, as that is what the powers that be consider to be the most "attractive" brand of football to watch. I'm with Mase - I don't like it, but it is what it is.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

That to me is one of the main causes of this board's complaints with the coaching IMO - I feel we are fast becoming a casualty of the AFL shifting the goalposts to favour certain styles of play adopted by certain clubs, as that is what the powers that be consider to be the most "attractive" brand of football to watch. I'm with Mase - I don't like it, but it is what it is.

It is not the Rules. All teams face the same. We just have a crap style.