News Serious assault following last night’s game (2018 final)
- Thread starter Bunk Moreland
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No deal, and then give them a bigger sentence for pleadng not guilty. I thought that's how plea bargaining worked, not "I'll plead guilty to the most minor charge, even though I'm odds on to be found guilty anyway, if you don't pursue the others"
- Aug 21, 2016
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It's going to happen. The case won't go to a higher court and these scumbags, who viciously attacked and could have killed two blokes, won't serve any time in jail.
Quivorir
"Unhinged"
- Mar 29, 2010
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Wtf, why did I get a notification saying this thread has just been created?
_Mike_
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- Aug 10, 2009
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Why does this happen you ask?
On the basis that its more than likely that the sentencing for intentionally causing injury carries the lesser of penalties imposed by the crimes act, which will most likely result in good behavior bonds being imposed with no conviction recorded. The other charges will incur a harsher penalty and carry the probability that both will have their records tarnished with criminal convictions. Take a look at the Crimes Act 1958 (Vic) for each of the charges, you'll see more details therein. Also the sentencing act plays part on the imposition of penalties for a plea or finding of guilt.
- Dec 2, 2014
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Horrible family.
- Jul 2, 2012
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What’s the point of even having the higher level charges if you’re not going to use them?
Part of the effect as a deterrent if the big stick stems from the chance that you will actually get hit with it.
Never using it means it’s just a fable.
Part of the effect as a deterrent if the big stick stems from the chance that you will actually get hit with it.
Never using it means it’s just a fable.
- Thread starter
- #834
They use them
Just these blokes have a QC as a father and they’ll be using every last trick they have to try to avoid them
_Mike_
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Often used as bargaining chips. Where the DPP doesn’t have enough of of a case brief to support the charges going to trial, they will offer lesser charges to resolve the matter before going to trial. The seriousness of the crime will depend on whether the Magistrates or County Court has jurisdiction over the charges. The County Court can impose jail sentences for some serious assault charges and the risk to the accused is that if they don’t take the lesser charges before the Magistrate, they run the very real risk of a more serious penalty.
However, then you have to consider how our legal system approaches crime itself. The Australian judiciary focuses on restorative justice, getting people to rebuild the harm caused by their crimes, rather than punitive justice which would impose a jail term. The Court system wants to avoid institutionalising people who later become career criminals. Jail is supposed they hold people responsible and accountable, but it often has a negative impact on the social system when you have more repeat offenders in and out of jail.
All the more reason to send them to gaol I would have thought. Their privileged position in society means they are highly unlikely to become career criminals. They'll more than land on their feet after release, they'll hit the ground running.
These aren't people stealing or getting involved in drugs to get by. They, along with anyone else who'd think to do the same, are a violent danger to society. The more lenient we are, the more dangerous they are.
These aren't people stealing or getting involved in drugs to get by. They, along with anyone else who'd think to do the same, are a violent danger to society. The more lenient we are, the more dangerous they are.
- Jun 14, 2015
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That article (and my post) are from February. I'm not sure if the article is exactly as it was when I posted it (I've noticed the Age update their articles in the hours after they first go live a few times).
In any case, given the video footage of the accused beating the living s**t out of the victims and absence of a guilty plea (and expecting their victims to sit through (potentially painful) cross examinations) I'm comfortable with my assessment.
Please don’t send these guys to jail. The family has suffered enough, daddys membership at the yacht club has been questioned and mother didn’t get her usual seat at the cafe on Bay Street. Reputations are being tarnished.
- Apr 15, 2013
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Mobile phone and I assume the media got hold of it before the police anyway.
Have been following this case closely with the expectation they wouldn't see a day inside due to their family lineage and probable wealth. This may sound like hyperbole but we simply don't live in a fair and just society if guys can be FILMED doing what they did and escape prison time. There is no level of remorse, no argument for justification or self-defence that allows for punching a downed victim nearly 20 times while their head lay on a concrete road. You do that to kill someone or because you are not capable of restraining your violent tendencies and either of those options makes you unsafe for the community.
As I say, was always expecting them to get the most lenient possible "punishment" but it doesn't detract from how dismayed and furious the whole thing makes me. Just look at the footage - how many people here, if that happened to someone you loved, would seek these blokes out if they avoid incarceration? I'm a non-violent person and even I'd be incredibly tempted to find them if they attacked one of my family members or friends in such a way.
As I say, was always expecting them to get the most lenient possible "punishment" but it doesn't detract from how dismayed and furious the whole thing makes me. Just look at the footage - how many people here, if that happened to someone you loved, would seek these blokes out if they avoid incarceration? I'm a non-violent person and even I'd be incredibly tempted to find them if they attacked one of my family members or friends in such a way.
- Aug 18, 2009
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Wow, I'd forgotten how horrible this was. They could have killed that poor bloke lying on the road.
Utter pieces of s**t.
Utter pieces of s**t.
Noted it was an old post and my apologies for that
However it’s their legal right to defend themselves and is no way a reflection one way or the other on their level of remorse.
They are pleading guilty btw, just not of the more serious charges. I’m no lawyer and neither is anybody else on here but that’s the way the law works.
Agree out of court, and save the victims a lot of grief and save the court a lot of time and money, some of it taxpayers money
- Jul 2, 2012
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That was my understanding of the whole plea deal scenario, to be used when the prosecutor thinks the prosecution will struggle to get a guilty verdict for the higher level crimes.
I’d prefer the prosecutor goes as hard as possible and it’s up to the judge to show leniency, or the inclination for rehab etc.
100 Aboriginal women in WA currently in gaol for unpaid fines. Some have died in custody.
Yep. The game is rigged, hence why I never expected these violent cretins to face any form of real justice.
- May 17, 2014
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Spirited play fight
FastLane
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The more money one has, the more justice they are afforded.
Plea negotiation will likely be agreed- prosecution want a conviction, defence want most lenient outcome.
As someone else stated- prosecution would need to 100% sure of gaining guilty verdict if they took it to trial- not much wiggle room- it's an all or nothing scenario.
Getting guilty pleas to lesser charges gives them their conviction (which no doubt would be appealed if Mag has balls to convict- as could impose no-conviction even with guilty plea).
Also saves taxpayers $$$ due to length of trial and jury- if it went to court and they were found not guilty-which with the $$$ and connections you'd assume they'd have a heavy hitting legal team- everyone here would be up in arms.
Prosecution stuck between rock and hard place- shame the offenders can't be jammed in there instead
Plea negotiation will likely be agreed- prosecution want a conviction, defence want most lenient outcome.
As someone else stated- prosecution would need to 100% sure of gaining guilty verdict if they took it to trial- not much wiggle room- it's an all or nothing scenario.
Getting guilty pleas to lesser charges gives them their conviction (which no doubt would be appealed if Mag has balls to convict- as could impose no-conviction even with guilty plea).
Also saves taxpayers $$$ due to length of trial and jury- if it went to court and they were found not guilty-which with the $$$ and connections you'd assume they'd have a heavy hitting legal team- everyone here would be up in arms.
Prosecution stuck between rock and hard place- shame the offenders can't be jammed in there instead
I think most hopefully understand what you've outlined there. Doesn't make it any less infuriating or frustrating. I think everyone's used to the privileged getting away with what others wouldn't - it's just that it's reasonably rare for such a horrific, compelling piece of video evidence to exist. For it to effectively be ignored, in terms of the lighter charges they'll likely receive, is something general society have every right to find galling. I'm not big into performative outrage or mob justice or "Let 'em rot!" style rhetoric but when the outcome is so obviously pre-ordained, despite the action and the evidence, it just makes you shake your head and lose another vestige of hope. It's just a very blatant reminder that, as you said, the more money, the more "justice" and that most of us are playing on an uneven deck.
_Mike_
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- Aug 10, 2009
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The defence is likely to claim that the victims contributed to the assault and were not simply bystanders on the notion that they were intoxicated and engaging in unruly drunken behavior. All that has to be shown is a level of doubt that the victims were partly to blame then the charges get thrown out or withdrawn for lesser charges. What we’re seeing here is an arrangement to stop it from going to court and wasting more time by having them plead guilty to lesser charges.
Would this have happened if it was an average joe public who was the accused, without connection to free legal representation of high standing and friends in the judiciary? We all know the likely answer to that.
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