Jon Ralph, Tim Kelly and the Curious Case of the 'no source' AFL Reporter

[Max Caddy]

You might have to let your obsession of a top 6 pick go because the chances of it happening is remote.

Yes probably just as remote as a successful deal getting done.
Might happen, but more likely to fall over because WC have nothing meaningful to offer. And Freo are Freo.

 

[99cents]

Hi guys,

A little question for all of you here, and something that has bothered me for quite a while with reporters like Ralph - why can they write entire articles without sources?

The Herald Sun is one of the largest newspapers in Australia, and has a very large subscribed following. They print hundreds of articles a week on different topics, all with varying levels of accuracy. While I'm not deluded to the fact that Ralph isn't exactly 'A grade' reporting material, I still find it interesting that he sees fit to post an article with no factual substantiation to back up his claims about Tim Kelly.

I have re-read this article a few times, and many things jump out at me. I have listed these below -

1) He uses the word feels despite no actual conversation with Kelly or his manager taking place

2) He uses the word expected, in order to be non-committal in his piece

3) He directly states that:

"Kelly has no beef with Fremantle despite his partner Caitlin Miller “liking” a recent social media post about Ross Lyon’s sacking. But despite two years at Geelong he has not diverted from his position that he needs to be back with his family in Perth."

The above is stated, when there are several instances where Kelly has in fact diverted from his initial stance of needing to be back with his family. Most recently during his conversation with the media when Geelong were up against Fremantle.

4) The only quotes that he does post from Kelly, are quotes that state he hasn't made a decision yet. While we all know that's just media deflection, if the only substantiated piece of context is one that refutes your initial argument, why are you posting it at all? From the way it's structured, it appears he's put that last to give the article some merit. The problem here is, is that the reader has already had their opinion swayed by the aforementioned, and thus, won't be neutral when they read that statement.

******************

Taking all of the above into account, I do genuinely question why reporters are allowed to post things such as 'he feels' or 'he has', when he has no source to back that up. Doesn't then this come under misrepresentation, as you're stating that someone said something or feels something, but you're not actually providing any evidence to back that up? Doesn't that make him (and the Herald Sun) liable for a defamation suit?

He also has corrected his article since, stating that Kelly refutes this. He has not pulled the article though, and only includes this information towards the end. He again is using this as a way to create headlines and clicks for his newspaper, but doesn't actually change anything about his article.

Why is this allowed? On the eve of finals, with Collingwood up against them and his Tigers one of the big contenders, why is he allowed to unsettle the Geelong team with reports like this, without any substantiation? It's all a bit odd to me. Surely Tim and Caitlyn could sue the Herald Sun and Ralph, given that he uses them as references, but he never actually spoke to them or his manager?

Thoughts?

Please ensure you extrapolate this lesson to all the garbage NEWSLTD barf out

 

[Marc_Remillard]

They have sources at clubs and around the industry (player managers etc) who speak to them on the condition they don’t burn them. If they did, the sources wouldn’t give them anything further.

If it’s not true the parties involved can just say so. That’s what happened with the Fantasia trade a couple of months ago. Then the reporter looks like a dickhead.

Who can they say no to, the journalists making the crap up in the first place?

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Journos (apart from a few) are indeed a disgrace to humanity.

(Modern contemporary) Politicians are a cancer that need to be removed. Boot all the bas$ards out and start again.

Apart from the banking establishment and the fossil fuel industry, there are no greater threats to our freedom, liberty, security and prosperity.

Legal system is way up there

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Journalists are just guessing these days. Throw enough darts and you'll eventually get one right..

 

[Monument Hills]

Everyone knows Ralph wrote the article, yet when Kelly was recorded as refuting it on radio this morning, he was "responding to reports".

Whether Kelly stays or goes aside in this case, would love for one of the players at some stage to just say, "no, it's not true. ______(insert name) just made that up on their own". Might make them reconsider what they write going forward.

 

[the harry]

Journalists are just guessing these days. Throw enough darts and you'll eventually get one right..

Agreed. Plus, no one ever really follows up or goes back and brings up the articles that were proven incorrect. Admittedly, people change their minds and things like that, but still, if a journalist makes a habit of being wrong they should be called on it.

 

[Off Tap]

Yes probably just as remote as a successful deal getting done.
Might happen, but more likely to fall over because WC have nothing meaningful to offer. And Freo are Freo.

The deal will get done but it's highly doubtful we can get a top 6 pick. We just don't have the currency to get one unless we offload a player.

Unlikely.

We're very fair dealers normally and the deal will be close to par.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

They never name their sources though and most reporters use phrasing like that.

It’s not like it’s a massive leap or anything.

It’s also not defaming anyone to suggest they want to leave Geelong...as hard as that is to believe.

Correct, they don't name them and no, if they have received information from a source, they won't use phrases like that.

I actually read the article that the OP is talking about and then left a comment in their comments section asking if it had just been made up as there were no direct quotes used nor reference to sources. Annoyingly, when I was reading it, an auto-play video popped up of Ralphy and someone else talking about Kelly going back and what he was worth. The video was from last year.

Usually it will be, 'My sources have told me....', 'My source says.....'

An absolute pile of garbage.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

The majority of the article was already pretty well known, I thought. I'm surprised Geelong supporters are so upset by it.

One seems to be.

 

[kreglze]

The garbage and story making journalism might just drive Kelly across the Nullarbor to get away from it all. A self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[The Punter]

Once again........The Herald Sun actually pay their reporters by the click. They got your click. They write trash. You just don't like THIS trash.

Trash? What, like continually saying that Nick Riewoldt was going to sign with the Gold Coast Suns?

 

[dean33]

Best way for kelly to show the article is BS would be to sign up with the cats before Friday night, would give his teammates a boost as well. Somehow I don’t think this will happen and Ralphy will be proved correct.

 

[Farang83150]

Best way for kelly to show the article is BS would be to sign up with the cats before Friday night, would give his teammates a boost as well. Somehow I don’t think this will happen and Ralphy will be proved correct.

Maybe it's not though.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

The garbage and story making journalism might just drive Kelly across the Nullarbor to get away from it all. A self fulfilling prophecy.

In this case it would be out of the frying pan and into the fire, although the WA media tend to go a bit easier on Eagles players than they do Freo ones.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Best way for kelly to show the article is BS would be to sign up with the cats before Friday night, would give his teammates a boost as well. Somehow I don’t think this will happen and Ralphy will be proved correct.

He may well be proven correct but that's not really the point is it?

 

[Max Caddy]

Best way for kelly to show the article is BS would be to sign up with the cats before Friday night, would give his teammates a boost as well. Somehow I don’t think this will happen and Ralphy will be proved correct.

Tim is a smart guy. Why on earth would he sign up on Friday night and throw away all his contractual leverage?

 

[Monocle]

I don’t like the article and think it’s disrespectful to Geelong , given that it’s been published on the eve of the finals.

The timing stinks and can be interpreted as a sleezy attempts to knock Gellongs concentration and attention of their finals campaign.

I would think that the hierarchy at Geelong would be super pissed off with the timing of the article..... and rightly so IMO.

Don’t like that Kelly has to fend off questions prompted by the miscehevious article , when he should be 100% focused on the final against Collingwood.

Piss poor journalism by Ralph and shows nothing but disrespect ,a lack of understanding of the football industry as a whole and contempt for Geelong.

Suck on a fat dick Ralph.

 

[Engimal v3]

I'd love to see someone fact check AFL-related stories for the past 10 years. I reckon maybe 10-15% of these articles are actually true.

 

[The Punter]

Most of them are not reporting of news.

Reporting of news is hard. It's no real surprise that enterprising sports journos want to get to a point where they don't have to work to report news - they either cobble together feelpinion pieces that are filled with the same sort of sentences and descriptive words as the article above, or they get handed "scoops" by sources that want the story to run in prominent places. Once a footy journo ends up on TV (usually after a radio stint) then they've made it - they don't need to "work" any more.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

He may well be proven correct but that's not really the point is it?

Of course it’s the point. A player like Kelly moving clubs is a big story. If he’s got it it’s his job to tell it. Which he’s done.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Of course it’s the point. A player like Kelly moving clubs is a big story. If he’s got it it’s his job to tell it. Which he’s done.

No, the point is, the story in question is basically his opinion or his best guess, there are no direct quotes or mention of sources and most of it is rehashed. It's filling column inches and generating clicks.

He's a 50 / 50 or 33 / 33 / 33 chance of being correct. There's no ramifications if it doesn't play out that way. It's not like Hutchy with Kosi and the rape / sexual assault story.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

No, the point is, the story in question is basically his opinion or his best guess, there are no direct quotes or mention of sources and most of it is rehashed. It's filling column inches and generating clicks.

He's a 50 / 50 or 33 / 33 / 33 chance of being correct. There's no ramifications if it doesn't play out that way. It's not like Hutchy with Kosi and the rape / sexual assault story.

Well yeah it’s his opinion, but it’s a fairly educated opinion. It’s his job to have sources around the clubs and player management.

And of course there’s ramifications. He can’t go round constantly saying things that are wrong. Those very sources would get the shits with him very quickly if he did.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Hi guys,

A little question for all of you here, and something that has bothered me for quite a while with reporters like Ralph - why can they write entire articles without sources?

The Herald Sun is one of the largest newspapers in Australia, and has a very large subscribed following. They print hundreds of articles a week on different topics, all with varying levels of accuracy. While I'm not deluded to the fact that Ralph isn't exactly 'A grade' reporting material, I still find it interesting that he sees fit to post an article with no factual substantiation to back up his claims about Tim Kelly.

I have re-read this article a few times, and many things jump out at me. I have listed these below -

1) He uses the word feels despite no actual conversation with Kelly or his manager taking place

2) He uses the word expected, in order to be non-committal in his piece

3) He directly states that:

"Kelly has no beef with Fremantle despite his partner Caitlin Miller “liking” a recent social media post about Ross Lyon’s sacking. But despite two years at Geelong he has not diverted from his position that he needs to be back with his family in Perth."

The above is stated, when there are several instances where Kelly has in fact diverted from his initial stance of needing to be back with his family. Most recently during his conversation with the media when Geelong were up against Fremantle.

4) The only quotes that he does post from Kelly, are quotes that state he hasn't made a decision yet. While we all know that's just media deflection, if the only substantiated piece of context is one that refutes your initial argument, why are you posting it at all? From the way it's structured, it appears he's put that last to give the article some merit. The problem here is, is that the reader has already had their opinion swayed by the aforementioned, and thus, won't be neutral when they read that statement.

******************

Taking all of the above into account, I do genuinely question why reporters are allowed to post things such as 'he feels' or 'he has', when he has no source to back that up. Doesn't then this come under misrepresentation, as you're stating that someone said something or feels something, but you're not actually providing any evidence to back that up? Doesn't that make him (and the Herald Sun) liable for a defamation suit?

He also has corrected his article since, stating that Kelly refutes this. He has not pulled the article though, and only includes this information towards the end. He again is using this as a way to create headlines and clicks for his newspaper, but doesn't actually change anything about his article.

Why is this allowed? On the eve of finals, with Collingwood up against them and his Tigers one of the big contenders, why is he allowed to unsettle the Geelong team with reports like this, without any substantiation? It's all a bit odd to me. Surely Tim and Caitlyn could sue the Herald Sun and Ralph, given that he uses them as references, but he never actually spoke to them or his manager?

Thoughts?

I don’t think the journo’s ever make this stuff up, I reckon they actually do get it from sources ...

... as much as we like to take the piss out of MSM, do compare what they write to what you see here on BF and there is a difference.

I think the thing to question is whether the journo’s source made it up (or not), and what their motivation might be, and why they would want it out in the media.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

For the journalist , the incentive is to get the click, then the sub might hopefully follow. They only get the extra pay if the sub is via THEIR article.

So the incentive is all in the click, then hope for the best that you get a few live ones.

It's semantics how it is framed, but essentially it is cash for clicks. And sport has always been a main driver for The Hun.

sport and resentment