Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 2 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Dogs_R_Us]

Elliott linked with Melbourne...

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

Im getting the distinct impression that Schache has all but been thrown on the scrap heap of history by the bigfooty list management team because he had a poor elimination final. You're only ever as good as your last game in here.

I just don't rate him that much. He's a tall forward that plays like a flanker but he's slower than a proper flanker and can't put on any pressure. I love the ball in his hands, especially inside 50, but he doesn't work as hard for his possessions as Naughton. He gets a lot of credit for his tank but he doesn't seem to be outworking his defenders as game goes on. The game he missed with concussion we restructured the forward line and it looked better than ever (until we needed to send Cordy to defence). 50 points in the first quarter, and Naughton got 20 possessions, 10 contested, 1 goal and 2 goal assists. I'm fine with Schache playing because he's incredibly accurate but I'd like him to work himself into our structure instead of the structure fitting around him.

 

[Braybrook Son]

I think hunter is an important player and I understand his value to the team, but if I had all three available next year and had to pick 2 I’d prefer lipinski and Smith. Their upside is huge, but that said there is room for all 3 in the side given where they play. I predict by this time next year lipinski and Smith will have overtaken hunter in terms of value to the team. Smith and lipinski are on the path to being A graders (at the least, hopefully elite) and I just don’t rate hunter in that bracket and I don’t think he ever will be. That is in no way “s**tting on genuinely good players”. It’s a difference of opinion I’m comfortable holding. We are all adults here aren’t we?

You know how people I stand with at games that don’t rate Hunter? Nearly all of them. If I had a dollar for every time he butchers a kick or handball and someone says: yeah, time to trade him, I’d be rich

 

[mattwa]

Jamie Elliot still the common sense option. Unless you want to throw a first at Papley, when instead we can get Elliott for free.

I disagree. He isnt a pressure forward he is similar type of player to Bailey Dale as hes a lead and mark type player. Rather have Dale as well as I think his upside is immense. Good player but Elliot is not doubting that. Looking at his stats his tackles inside 50 per game were good but on the eye test he never striked me as a quicker pressure forward ala Papley, Rioli/Castagna etc

 

[Northernsoul74]

Haven’t seen RWB on here for a while after his spot on Bruce info. I wonder if he’s heard anything more.

 

[mambavino]

You know how people I stand with at games that don’t rate Hunter? Nearly all of them. If I had a dollar for every time he butchers a kick or handball and someone says: yeah, time to trade him, I’d be rich

I've never wanted to trade him, but gee every time he does one of the "Hunter specials" (Round the body, boot it up into the air to nobody) when he has other options, I let out a groan. If he could sort out his kicking, he'd be a superstar.

 

[Bald]

Pick 13 and Toby McLean for Tom Papley and Sydneys pick 25.

Pick 25 to St Kilda for Josh Bruce.

Pick 32 and 42 to Adelaide for Alex Keath.

This would be nice!

 

[VitalDread]

Pick 13 and Toby McLean for Tom Papley and Sydneys pick 25.

Pick 25 to St Kilda for Josh Bruce.

Pick 32 and 42 to Adelaide for Alex Keath.

This would be nice!

McLean is pretty settled at the club so Swans would have to offer him big cash to move

 

[LittleG]

Pick 13 and Toby McLean for Tom Papley and Sydneys pick 25.

Pick 25 to St Kilda for Josh Bruce.

Pick 32 and 42 to Adelaide for Alex Keath.

This would be nice!

Overpaying for Papley. Think Toby is worth more than chips in any trade.

 

[immortalmike]

Pick 13 and Toby McLean for Tom Papley and Sydneys pick 25.

Pick 25 to St Kilda for Josh Bruce.

Pick 32 and 42 to Adelaide for Alex Keath.

This would be nice!

I wouldn't trade Toby for Papley as a straight swap.

 

[VitalDread]

I don't want a lot of Swans games but everytime i see Papley play

I never really think "man, i need this person in our forward line"

Happy for Carlton to waste their first rounder

 

[fred cook]

I wouldn't trade Toby for Papley as a straight swap.

No Toby should not go or

COMPUTER SAYS NO

 

[TiAn_]

I don't want a lot of Swans games but everytime i see Papley play

I never really think "man, i need this person in our forward line"

Happy for Carlton to waste their first rounder

His arms are too short.

 

[FoochPackage]

I wouldn't trade Toby for Papley as a straight swap.

Then you need to watch a bit more of Papley. Exactly what our fwd line needs.

 

[VitalDread]

Mitch Clearly believes that Pick 32 is what Bruce and Keath are worth and we should consider trading our 2020 pick to help Saints land Zak Jones

So Pick 32 to Crows
2020 to Saints

When we could just trade our three third rounders and move into the second round that way

 

[Libba39]

I’d want Papley over Bruce if it was a choice between the 2.

My opinion is the polar opposite...

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Mitch Clearly believes that Pick 32 is what Bruce and Keath are worth and we should consider trading our 2020 pick to help Saints land Zak Jones

So Pick 32 to Crows
2020 to Saints

When we could just trade our three third rounders and move into the second round that way

I would have thought we would want to get extra future picks, not trade our existing ones away

 

[Triple Baileys]

Freo currently do not have any 3rd rounders and will probably get a bid for Henry before their 2nd rounder.
They could be a good option for trading our 3rd rounders into a pick in the 20's to pay for Bruce.

Would be something like pick 28 (after GC compo and likely academy bids) for app. 48+53+55.
28 for Bruce, 34 for Keath, take our first to the draft and pick up a couple of speculative kids 4th round on.

That said the draft order changes so much so quickly these days and they will likely end up with another second rounder for Langdon so who knows.

So we would swap 3 later picks (currently 43, 48 & 50) worth 953 for pick 26 worth 729. And then the subsequent events you outlined. Yeah, I would support that. Would have to be very attractive to Freo. Fly in the ointment: is there not a rule to the effect that you can only take as many picks to the draft as you have free list spots (minimum 3)? That means Freo have to clear 6 list spots to draft 3 players. Means they have to recruit after the draft. How does that work? What options do they have? It is a challenge for them but on the other hand they have pick 7 + Henry (reputed to go around 13 in the draft) as the foundation for this year's recruiting campaign.

I think the Saints would blink and take 28 for Bruce. I think 32 for Keath is generous when you factor in all aspects like age & games played. I still wonder if Keath is worth pick 32?

If we can get Keath for pick 48 + pick 50 (=pick 33 in points) and do Bruce for 32 + 43 (= pick 19 in points Saints fans ), I would much prefer that.

But there is a long way to go and this year seems like we have a few permutations available, which is a pleasant change from some recent drafts.

 

[True Dog]

Then you need to watch a bit more of Papley. Exactly what our fwd line needs.

How is Papley any better than Lloyd other than being younger? Don’t get me wrong happy to get him but not at the price some are willing to pay.

 

[yebiga]

I like that petrucelle dude at Westcoast

 

[Virgin Dog]

I wouldn't trade Toby for Papley as a straight swap.

I love Toby, and doubt he'd be going anywhere, but I also believe Papley is objectively the better and more valuable player. Never seen Toby win a game off his own back, while Papley has. In particular, go and watch West Coast vs Sydney from earlier this year. 27 disposals, 5 inside 50s, 7 marks (4 inside 50), kicked 5.2. No offence to Toby, but he's never had a game like that, and also plays a position we have way too much depth in.

A straight swap Toby for Papley we'd be laughing

 

[mattwa]

Papley is far superior to McClean. If we got him on top of the other two ins we would be 2nd behind Richmond as flag faves

 

[TempletonTheRat]

I love Toby, and doubt he'd be going anywhere, but I also believe Papley is objectively the better and more valuable player. Never seen Toby win a game off his own back, while Papley has. In particular, go and watch West Coast vs Sydney from earlier this year. 27 disposals, 5 inside 50s, 7 marks (4 inside 50), kicked 5.2. No offence to Toby, but he's never had a game like that, and also plays a position we have way too much depth in.

A straight swap Toby for Papley we'd be laughing

You are rating him on his best game for the year - how about his 4 possy game against the Cats or his 8 possy game against Essendon or his 7 possy game against the Demons?

 

[Boyd oh Boyd]

You are rating him on his best game for the year - how about his 4 possy game against the Cats or his 8 possy game against Essendon or his 7 possy game against the Demons?

Disposals alone don't tell you much. The averages of those three games - 1.3 goals, 3.6 marks, 3 tackles. That's about what McLean averages for his whole year except goals are much lower. So Papley's worst is about even with McLean overall.

 

[Virgin Dog]

You are rating him on his best game for the year - how about his 4 possy game against the Cats or his 8 possy game against Essendon or his 7 possy game against the Demons?

I am rating him on his potential output, which is higher than McLean has ever demonstrated. Papley played every game this year, while Toby got dropped. And while we're talking about poor games, McLean had 7 and 8 disposals in his last 2 games for the year.

They both averaged almost identical disposal numbers over the season, and finished with similar tackle numbers too.
The difference is Papley kicked 37.28 compared to McLean's 14.10.

To me, given our need for an elite small forward, a swap of Papley for McLean would be ridiculous to turn down, and any neutral would surely agree Papley is objectively worth more than McLean. I'd argue Dustin Martin is worth more than Josh Dunkley too. Doesn't mean I think Dunkley is bad, just that I think it's not hard to objectively recognise when one player is better than another