Toast Dale Thomas

[Help My Club]

LOL he wouldn't even know who we are so why do you think that? you're over thinking it more so. Many thought he was a dick in the way he left then the whole needing to suckle on micks bosom made it worse.

Plenty of players leave not many have lost the respect of the entire supporter group whilst doing so in such a unanimous way.

In the end he did us a favour so for that I'll buy him a beer. cheers.

If I ever meet Thomas, which is highly unlikely, I'll buy him a beer too. For being a major contributor to the 2010 premiership which as we all know, doesn't come along often at the Pies. The rest is inconsequential. Cheers

 

[Dynamics]

You've confirmed that you actually get some value in holding a grudge - Fun! That's good. Carry on.

But I suspect that a lot of supporters hold a grudge out of some misguided belief that their feelings are relevant to the player(s). I hate to say it but I would argue that not only does the likes of bad boys like Thomas not spend to much time concerning themselves with supporters feelings but also the good lads that supporters love. But then again, I could be completely wrong.

Players are just people, so no doubt it would vary from player to player.

But yeah, I personally don't lose any sleep wondering what football players think of my opinion of them! I like to hold a grudge because Carlton.

 

[dansa]

You've confirmed that you actually get some value in holding a grudge - Fun! That's good. Carry on.

But I suspect that a lot of supporters hold a grudge out of some misguided belief that their feelings are relevant to the player(s). I hate to say it but I would argue that not only does the likes of bad boys like Thomas not spend to much time concerning themselves with supporters feelings but also the good lads that supporters love. But then again, I could be completely wrong.

Tend to agree. Players would care very little about what any individual supporter thinks of them.

But I'm just as sure that in retirement, most players , particularly a Premiership player would like to have the goodwill, respect and admiration of the supporter base.
A la Mathew Richardson, Rob Harvey, Jarrod Roughead etc.

Sure he made some good money moving to Carlton. But how many wins did he experience in the second half of his career? And now his career is over, how relevant is he? Judging by the failed event - almost irrelevant.

So he must know in his heart if he had stayed a one club player, he would have finished a favourite son and had endless opportunities after football to be well rewarded both financially and emotionally.

I'd be surprised if he had his time again, he'd let it play out the same way.

You're a long time retired.

 

[bunter]

T

That's it. It's all part of the theatre of the game. If you go to Carlton and you're a bit dicky about it, you're going to cop it.

He was obviously well remunerated for his trouble and I doubt he cries himself to sleep over it.

too right, old Mckenna went to the dark side but I still love him

 

[Jabso]

Tend to agree. Players would care very little about what any individual supporter thinks of them.

But I'm just as sure that in retirement, most players , particularly a Premiership player would like to have the goodwill, respect and admiration of the supporter base.
A la Mathew Richardson, Rob Harvey, Jarrod Roughead etc.

Sure he made some good money moving to Carlton. But how many wins did he experience in the second half of his career? And now his career is over, how relevant is he? Judging by the failed event - almost irrelevant.

So he must know in his heart if he had stayed a one club player, he would have finished a favourite son and had endless opportunities after football to be well rewarded both financially and emotionally.

I'd be surprised if he had his time again, he'd let it play out the same way.

You're a long time retired.

I held a grudge against him when he played for Carlton. It's mostly theatre and all in good fun though. I don't really care about how players are as people either way.

At the time it seemed like he went for the money, and I think he did but in retrospect it was probably the best thing for him at the time and the best thing for us (and even humorously a bad result for Carlton). He gave us a good compensation pick. We didn't overpay for a player who ultimately turned out to have an injury that turned one of the best players in the league to an average player. He got a great contract at (almost) the peak of his career. If he had stayed for a year or two longer we might've been forced to take him off the books mid contract to ease salary cap pressure and offloaded him for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.

He's still one of my favourites for his time at Collingwood. At the peak of his powers he was not just an athletic and skilled player but had an incredible work rate. I think after his injury he just had his work rate as it affected his kicking power and burst of speed. It looked like he would become one of the best players in the comp, and I think it was his injuries that stopped that from happening.

 

[Help My Club]

Tend to agree. Players would care very little about what any individual supporter thinks of them.

But I'm just as sure that in retirement, most players , particularly a Premiership player would like to have the goodwill, respect and admiration of the supporter base.
A la Mathew Richardson, Rob Harvey, Jarrod Roughead etc.

Sure he made some good money moving to Carlton. But how many wins did he experience in the second half of his career? And now his career is over, how relevant is he? Judging by the failed event - almost irrelevant.

So he must know in his heart if he had stayed a one club player, he would have finished a favourite son and had endless opportunities after football to be well rewarded both financially and emotionally.

I'd be surprised if he had his time again, he'd let it play out the same way.

You're a long time retired.

Yes fair call.

However the reality is that he was never going to stay long at Collingwood under Buckley. As personalities, they were poles apart. So it never would have happened staying at Collingwood in any event. Taking good money and going to Carlton was the sensible and arguably the only call.

 

[Help My Club]

I held a grudge against him when he played for Carlton. It's mostly theatre and all in good fun though. I don't really care about how players are as people either way.

At the time it seemed like he went for the money, and I think he did but in retrospect it was probably the best thing for him at the time and the best thing for us (and even humorously a bad result for Carlton). He gave us a good compensation pick. We didn't overpay for a player who ultimately turned out to have an injury that turned one of the best players in the league to an average player. He got a great contract at (almost) the peak of his career. If he had stayed for a year or two longer we might've been forced to take him off the books mid contract to ease salary cap pressure and offloaded him for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.

He's still one of my favourites for his time at Collingwood. At the peak of his powers he was not just an athletic and skilled player but had an incredible work rate. I think after his injury he just had his work rate as it affected his kicking power and burst of speed. It looked like he would become one of the best players in the comp, and I think it was his injuries that stopped that from happening.

Agree on a number of fronts:

(i) I also don't care how players are as people - that's there business. And I certainly don't live vicariously through these players - except of course when I was a kid.
(ii) The timing of the departure of Thomas worked for both the player and the club. The rest is inconsequential.
(iii) His contribution to the 2010 flag was immense. Further, never was his work rate more evident with that tackle on Cyril in the 2011 PF which effectively resulted in the club playing off the next week in the GF. Therefore his contribution to the clubs successes, albeit brief in terms of time, was far more significant than the vast majority of those players who have represented the club. Trust he has a good retirement.

 

[BEEG]

Don't dislike him as much as Beams but both left in a shit way, Daisy was never the same after 2011.

One of the hardest players I can remember in the black and white during his best, I now remember him as a sooky half back flank seagull that lost every week without his special daddy coaching him.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yes fair call.

However the reality is that he was never going to stay long at Collingwood under Buckley. As personalities, they were poles apart. So it never would have happened staying at Collingwood in any event. Taking good money and going to Carlton was the sensible and arguably the only call.

He thought that the individual was bigger than the club and the players were in control, not the coach.

History has shown that Buckley’s rebuild was the right thing to do. Daisy ( and Beams for that matter, albeit different circumstances ) needs to live with his decision to not be a part of it.

 

[Help My Club]

He thought that the individual was bigger than the club and the players were in control, not the coach.

History has shown that Buckley’s rebuild was the right thing to do. Daisy ( and Beams for that matter, albeit different circumstances ) needs to live with his decision to not be a part of it.

With all due respect Timmy, not be part of what? What has Thomas missed out on being at Carlton over the past 5 odd years? A premiership?

Further, and please don't take this as a personal criticism of Buckley (refer other recent threads where I have acknowledged Buckley's turn around over the past 2 years), what tangible evidence can you drawn upon that confirms that the rebuild was the right thing to do?

 

[TKiL]

He thought that the individual was bigger than the club and the players were in control, not the coach.
History has shown that Buckley’s rebuild was the right thing to do. Daisy ( and Beams for that matter, albeit different circumstances ) needs to live with his decision to not be a part of it.

Question:

Do you mean a list rebuild or a cultural overhaul or both or something else?

Comment:

Considering his departure, Beams' return always seemed a bit odd to me - whether it actually ever provides a benefit to the club is still in the balance

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Question:

Do you mean a list rebuild or a cultural overhaul or both or something else?

Comment:

Considering his departure, Beams' return always seemed a bit odd to me - whether it actually ever provides a benefit to the club is still in the balance

It was a bit of both.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

With all due respect Timmy, not be part of what? What has Thomas missed out on being at Carlton over the past 5 odd years? A premiership?

Further, and please don't take this as a personal criticism of Buckley (refer other recent threads where I have acknowledged Buckley's turn around over the past 2 years), what tangible evidence can you drawn upon that confirms that the rebuild was the right thing to do?

Can’t believe you’re even asking that question. Perhaps you suggest how we were going to advance without a rebuild.?

The list at the end of 2012 was overrated He had to turn it over. Ball Jolly brown Didak Johnson Krakouer Tarrant all at the end, Macaffer Blair N Brown Dawes Fasolo turned out to be not as good as hoped, Wellingham and OBrien did nothing at their new clubs due to poor culture. Reid turned out to be injury prone. Thomas and Beams did ok but not great at their new clubs but yielded Collingwood excellent compensation.

Nobody that I recall from the 2010-11 VFL side came through and turned into a long term player, because Malthouse handed over a team with zero depth and no eye to the medium term.

Every single player exit with the arguable exception of Shaw ( which also yielded an excellent trade) was the right decision.

The rebuild took a lot longer than expected due to some poor recruiting ( that’s the nature of drafting, hit and miss) but it’s undeniable that the rebuild was necessary.

 

[Help My Club]

000000000000M

Can’t believe you’re even asking that question. Perhaps you suggest how we were going to advance without a rebuild.?

The list at the end of 2012 was overrated He had to turn it over. Ball Jolly brown Didak Johnson Krakouer Tarrant all at the end, Macaffer Blair N Brown Dawes Fasolo turned out to be not as good as hoped, Wellingham and OBrien did nothing at their new clubs due tk poor culture Reid turned out to be injury prone. Thomas and Beams did ok but not great at their new clubs but yielded Collingwood excellent compensation.

Nobody that I recall from the 2010-11 VFL side came through and turned into a long term player, because Malthouse handed over a team with zero depth and no eye to the medium term.

Every single player exit with the arguable exception of Shaw ( which yielded an excellent trade) was the right decision.

The rebuild took a lot longer than expected due to some poor recruiting ( that’s the nature of drafting, hit and miss) but it’s undeniable that the rebuild was necessary.

My question wasn't seeking your opinion on whether at the end of 2012 the Pies list required a rebuild. You may be right. Conversely, one could also provide a counter argument. That's not the point.

My question is, and let me rephrase it ever so slightly : now that Thomas has retired (end 2019) what had he missed out on by not being at Collingwood over the past 5 odd years? Ultimate team success?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

000000000000M


My question wasn't seeking your opinion on whether at the end of 2012 the Pies list required a rebuild. You may be right. Conversely, one could also provide a counter argument. That's not the point.

My question is, and let me rephrase it ever so slightly : now that Thomas has retired (end 2019) what had he missed out on by not being at Collingwood over the past 5 odd years? Ultimate team success?

You clearly asked two questions and I answered the second, where I gave you overwhelming tangible evidence that a rebuild was the right thing to do.

I’m not going to get into debates about whether the ball bouncing in front of Milne or a difficult set shot from Sheed are the determinants of how one defines success or failure.

If you don’t think Collingwood has achieved far more than Carlton in recent seasons then I can’t help you.

 

[CFC2010]

Who gives a shit about this bloke........besides Help My Club?

 

[Help My Club]

You clearly asked two questions and I answered the second, where I gave you overwhelming tangible evidence that a rebuild was the right thing to do.

I’m not going to get into debates about whether the ball bouncing in front of Milne or a difficult set shot from Sheed are the determinants of how one defines success or failure.

If you don’t think Collingwood has achieved far more than Carlton in recent seasons then I can’t help you.

Ah It didn't take long to come out did it. The old Us vs Them mentality that has served our Club so long for so well.

I'll come clean at least. I couldn't give a flying f--k about PC cultural change that seems to be at the forefront of the Pies of late. I only care about flags and in particular, I get seriously pissed off at wasted opportunities to get them. I also don't exteralise blame for the lack of flags ie umpires, suspensions, bad luck etc. Call me a very base individual but since Thomas has left Collingwood, the Collingwood vs Carlton flag count is a Nil all draw and yet Carlton has been rightly viewed as a basket case whilst Collingwood as forward thinking/rebuilding. Interesting!

Dare I ask what what was the overwhelming tangible evidence again because I didn't get it?

 

[Help My Club]

Who gives a s**t about this bloke........besides Help My Club?

More Us against Them! My all time favourite of course is - If you're not with us (ie you have a converse view to us), you're against us. Gotta love that one. Roll on Year 9.

 

[left at home]

Don’t care if a player gets offered a kings fortune to leave as long as there up front about it
That’s there right
But the way daisy did, forget it
Got a lot more respect for H
That’s just me

 

[left at home]

Ah It didn't take long to come out did it. The old Us vs Them mentality that has served our Club so long for so well.

I'll come clean at least. I couldn't give a flying f--k about PC cultural change that seems to be at the forefront of the Pies of late. I only care about flags and in particular, I get seriously pi**ed off at wasted opportunities to get them. I also don't exteralise blame for the lack of flags ie umpires, suspensions, bad luck etc. Call me a very base individual but since Thomas has left Collingwood, the Collingwood vs Carlton flag count is a Nil all draw and yet Carlton has been rightly viewed as a basket case whilst Collingwood as forward thinking/rebuilding. Interesting!

Dare I ask what what was the overwhelming tangible evidence again because I didn't get it?

Your still pissed about mm, when you truely get over it, let me know

 

[westozpie]

Some questions:

(i) How did he disrespect the supporters? Did he clip the supporters on the way out?
(ii) Subsequently, has he expressed a desire to be welcome back into the fold?
(iii) What disaster? Wasn't he earning $750k pa at Carlton?

Said on radio that he heard supporters were throwing their number 13 pies jumper in the bin and that maybe they should get them back out. Few days later came out his signing with Carlton

 

[westozpie]

000000000000M


My question wasn't seeking your opinion on whether at the end of 2012 the Pies list required a rebuild. You may be right. Conversely, one could also provide a counter argument. That's not the point.

My question is, and let me rephrase it ever so slightly : now that Thomas has retired (end 2019) what had he missed out on by not being at Collingwood over the past 5 odd years? Ultimate team success?

Your counter argument is?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Ah It didn't take long to come out did it. The old Us vs Them mentality that has served our Club so long for so well.

I'll come clean at least. I couldn't give a flying f--k about PC cultural change that seems to be at the forefront of the Pies of late. I only care about flags and in particular, I get seriously pi**ed off at wasted opportunities to get them. I also don't exteralise blame for the lack of flags ie umpires, suspensions, bad luck etc. Call me a very base individual but since Thomas has left Collingwood, the Collingwood vs Carlton flag count is a Nil all draw and yet Carlton has been rightly viewed as a basket case whilst Collingwood as forward thinking/rebuilding. Interesting!

Dare I ask what what was the overwhelming tangible evidence again because I didn't get it?

About quarter past three.

 

[Help My Club]

Your counter argument is?

I think it's time for me to take a wander. The heavy "Us against Them" artillery has arrived.

I''l leave on this positive note. I sincerely hope that those supporters who initially threw their No 13 jumpers in the bin and then retrieved them from the bin only to throw them back in the bin have recovered from the experience.

 

[Horaceg]

Why does Dale Thomas remain relevant?