Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[FRUMPY]

I love sos and think he’s done an outstanding job at the club. But he’s mucked this one up. He should have relented and given up pick 9 for papley with no picks coming back and taken Martin in the PSD.

Should have given Richmond pick 9 for martin - oh wait he wasn't available.......just like papley [emoji1751]

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[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think you mean Blake Acres

Not sure why I equated the two. Probably listening to too much trade talk saying Newnes should leave if Hill and Jones came in.

On that, I'm not overly impressed with the Saints trade period in terms of personnel.

Yeah, they got their targets. Hill is a good one. Jones is decent. Ryder nothing but a stop gap. Butler a depth player. Howard has potential but not proven. Lost Bruce, Acres and Steven in the process, and have no draft picks left.

It was reasonable but I'm not sure they slayed it or anything.

 

[RoyalParade]

I've spent all year expecting to not have a first round pick... so I'm way out of touch with the possible options there. Anything to get excited about? How about a small forward?

To the draft thread...

My bet is we still trade 9 for other picks.

 

[Stamos]

The Saints knocked over 5 from 5. We didn't knock over 1 from 2 or maybe 3. Can't sell this as being a good thing. It's unfortunate and we'll be reminded of it for weeks to come thanks to dagger-wielding media.

They did well to trade #6 down, and then got Howard for a good price. Paid a lot for Hill though.
Let's see how much their position improves.

 

[NumberEight]

Absolutely abysmal.

We could have had Bonar and Butler late in the day.

We now have only an ageing Eddie to add to the list.

Relying on natural improvement when every single other team is improving their list or already better than us a road to nowhere.

 

[WeninRome]

So nor getting Papley because he wasnt available is SOS fault somehow? Wake up

It is if it's your plan A, B & C.

 

[FRUMPY]

Can't believe people are bemoaning 'missing out' on Butler.

A lot of vfl fans?

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[No1Suspect]

Wines wasn't available

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Imagine the extra melts saying yes to wines and port refusing to trade... sakc sos

 

[Talrahir]

never make an important decision when you are being rushed...nothing lost nothing gained

You might be right, but i would imagine it is an important skill to have in professional sport.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

I’m a lifelong Carlton supporter and I’ve been a Suns member for 6 years due to location so I’ve seen a lot of Jack Martin. But I have bitten my tongue (well keyboard) while this trade period has played out so I’m now going to give my honest appraisal of what has just occurred.

He was my favourite player early on based on a few very good games in the early years because he had amazing potential.

However .... he has consistently played about 4 decent games per year and teases with his potential, then goes missing for weeks at a time where he just seemed like he wasn’t interested at all, wouldn’t chase, tackle, or put his head over the ball to make a contest.

He is such a conditional player and chooses when to have a go and when he just can’t give a toss.

On numerous occasions this year I said that the Suns just needed to trade him while he still had some currency because he was playing like someone who clearly didn’t care and didn’t want to be at the club. I jokingly said to my wife that they can piss him off as long as he didn’t end up at Carlton ... then he nominated us and I just shook my head and said “for goodness sake I hope we don’t give up too much for him”.

What happened with Martin today is a very good outcome.
He is not worth a 1st round pick
He is not worth sliding back in the first round, and IMO ... (and in the case of any Suns players, for once I think my opinion counts for something) ...
He isn’t worth a 2nd round pick under 30

So SOS was 100% right not to be bent over on the Martin deal and if he plays another season like this year, he’d be a 4th rounder at best next year because of his give a toss attitude.

This is why GCS surely couldn’t entertain redrafting him in the PSD because they can’t afford to bring him back against his wishes on decent money, just to put up mediocre performances and drag down the club while they’re trying to improve their culture.

They had to make a stand, but it won’t help them in the end. Unfortunately we were in the breach on the occasion that they decided to do so. They have definitely put their club before the player, who I suspect will come out and say (via his manager) that he would rather sit out of footy that return to the Suns after what has occurred.

If we get him in the PSD fine. But SOS & Co. did the right thing today

As for Papley .... what can you do? He is contracted and Swans didn’t want to play ball.

We haven’t compromised by going after lesser quality targets and we haven’t given away the farm for the ones we wanted.

 

[BlueTongue]

This all day long. People got too far ahead of themselves at the prospect of having a decent small forward, they stopped thinking about the price. They felt that SOS had to make others bend to his will.

Not really. We won on the Gibbs deal, we could have afforded taken a hit (not too much) on the Papley deal. You hold all the cards if your club has the contracted player, like we did with Bryce, but you have to conceed a bit when you're trying to grab another clubs contracted player. Papley seems to be on the surface ideal fit for us, and a very good small forward. I'd have given Pick 9 and taken the hit if Sydney agreed. Price is always from point of perspective & need.

 

[Stamos]

Dumb question, but does that mean we wait for 1 year before we can get him, or do get him now?

6 weeks

 

[Iamcarlton]

What are we doing with all the spare salary cap space. We chased, Shiel, Cogs, Martin, Paps and got Zilch.

Love to know this but suspect we've just lost the lot .

Mate it will be exactly the same money over the 4 years that we already agreed with him.

Instead of 600k a year for 4 years, it will be something like:

Year 1: $1,000,000
Year 2: $500,000
Year 3: $450,000
Year 4: $450,000

Understand the breakdown don't believe we should do this with a player such as Martin .
Secondly the AFL will find a way to **** us again it won't happen imo .

 

[murphbf08]

I have to say, this is a major blight on silvagni, there is playing hard ball and there is stupidity. We are not the mafia where we say," accept this deal or we'll cut off a finger", when it came down to it. If we ended up paying major overs for martin and giving them a future first, do you think it would matter in the long run. And how about dan butler or gray from port, just a major **** up in my opinion. Stephen silvagni has beena fantastic list manager for us, getting great trades done and doing well in the draft since he came along. But this hard lines approach of having to win every trade eventually catches up with you , because clubs become reluctant to deal with you, because they think that they are going to get unders for every trade they do with carlton, and no professional list manager or clubs wants to come out looking like a loser. i just don't understand how this happened, i guess over time it become clearer, i guess.

 

[teknodeejay]

Melbourne wanted pick 8 to get in front of us for Weightman

In that case - and I’m sure I’ll be denounced- I hope we look at someone like a Ben Sokol who could provide an instant impact into next year in terms of forward capabilitY and then best available at 9. Worrell for mine if Young or Stephens aren’t available.

 

[Stamos]

We can still land Papley via live trading. Why do I get feeling that Swans wanted more time to try and convince him too stay. If it does not work, then SOS and Swans can negotiate a deal come draft night?

Nup, can only trade picks, not players

 

[BigFrizz36]

I am completely melting.
Sos failed. Not specifically because he failed to land Papley and Martin. He failed because it didn't improve our list, and that is his job.
Once he knew Papley and Martin weren't looking likely, he should have had plan b and plan c in his back pocket. No doubt the negotiations with Sydney and GC were difficult, if not impossible. But it doesn't excuse the fact that he failed to improve our list, and I cannot believe there weren't other players available that would have done that. This is a win or lose business - not a "i did my best" business. He lost. Big black mark against his name IMO.

pull your head in mate. martin in psd and best available at pick 9 improves our list.

 

[FRUMPY]

Absolutely abysmal.

We could have had Bonar and Butler late in the day.

We now have only an ageing Eddie to add to the list.

Relying on natural improvement when every single other team is improving their list or already better than us a road to nowhere.

Hahahaha bonar and butler the saviours we missed out on

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[Benaly28]

Butler is no more than a deck chair move on.

 

[TheNudist]

I don’t agree. He was ours if we paid overs for him which was pick 9. It will all come out in the wash.

 

[SammaGilberto]

A lot of vfl fans?

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I went to a VFL game this year at Princes Park, was a shit show, the amount of times someone came to the NB's interchange and got turned away, wowee!

 

[Blues_fest]

There is no front loading contracts any more
Value is based on total contract
You can’t set $1 million first year then 100k for 3 years
Afl just say match 1.3
Psd won’t be an option
Afl must have told GC harden up when they got the handouts
Nd for me sry in or nothing
I don’t want to overpay but I don’t like wooing a player then not getting it done

Sydney look like ditks

We just do a one year contract at a mill. Total value is 1 year/1mill.

Then have an addendum we don’t show anyone. Or verbal agreement with jack understanding SOS Sicilian friends will be in contact if he doesn’t re-sign in years 2 and 3 for agreed upon amount


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[Bluella]

Bloody hell people - perspective. Seriously the overreaction from the toddlers on this board is embarrassing. "Disaster!" "Devastated!" "Gutted!" - really? Get a grip.

I am disappointed we didn't get our targets, but seriously it is not the end of the bloody world. We didn't lose anyone we actually needed. We have a good young list that will improve next year. SOS built most of that so why the hell are the nuffies calling for him to be sacked? Next time people start paying out on the morons on the other boards, remember we have our fair share here too.

 

[Jimthegreat]

5 and 9 was never offered; stop blaming Dodoro

It was our 9 and a future first rounder, which is overs for Daniher. That's straight from Essendon. Given his outpuit the last two years, and the fact he's a restricted free agent next year, any idiot would've taken that and ran.

Dodoro is hopeless. Look that the soft, underachieving side he's put together as list manager.

 

[Raging Blue]

Coniglio nor Shiel did not nominate us.

Papley & Martin wanted to play for us. We are a destination club. We chose not to pay overs. Maybe we get Martin for nothing PSD & keep Pick 9. Not a bad result if we still get Martin.

We have a dam good list. We may still have Martin, Betts & Cuningham at the feet of McKay, Curnow & McGovern

I would have loved to pick up Papley.

The reality is most players traded won't make a big difference to the fortunes of their club. It's the development and building blocks that make the real difference. And we are doing that very well.