Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[Love the Drake]

Betts is way better than any small forward we have.
Pittonet is a bigger, tougher more robust ruckman than Phillips (and five years younger).
Still a great chance to pick up Martin.
Still have pick 9.
End result is we gave up very little and only missed on Papley, who Sydney refused to trade.

Hopefully Agresta has a few gems lined up in the draft.

 

[Blueballs38]

Can’t say it was t a disappointing trade period but I do t blame our recruitment team.
How can Achee go for peanuts and then they want to play hardball with a Martin?

Are the football gods cursing us?

How can teams like Melbourne and St Kilda get who they want and it always seems so hard for us?

Again let me stress this is not our recruitment teams fault but it’s just weird.

Gil stepping onin with Coggs, Dodo screwing us with Daniher so we couldnt look elsewhere .... Gold Coast stupid value of Martin.

Honestly I’m just gutted for all the time I spent the last few weeks keeping up to date with everything and then this happens.

ITKs thanks for the updates not blaming any of you. Will be interested to hear your take on everything. Looks like we will have a few scores to settle in the future. SOS has a damn long memory.

Hope we take the pick of the draft with 9 and shove it up all the arses!

 

[Keyza]

If GC wanted 9 and next year 2nd for martin and 15 they should fold.
Trade 9 and next year’s second to Melbourne for pick 3 and take him in nd
GC get nothing

So Carlton would be worse off than if we done the deal with Gold Coast.At least we would have pick 15.

 

[Red_man2008]

Great learning opportunity for our list managers. We won’t be caught with our **** out again. We won’t put everything on one decision. Surely sos knew it could end this way. We turned down butler Ellis and wines for this choice. And it didn’t happen because of Dodoro being an idiot (this will cost him down the track) and GC getting gifted everything by the AFL at our expense once again. I say **** em all. #Carlton.

Btw why did we help Sydney to get nothing in return. Why.

 

[FRUMPY]

I have to say, this is a major blight on silvagni, there is playing hard ball and there is stupidity. We are not the mafia where we say," accept this deal or we'll cut off a finger", when it came down to it. If we ended up paying major overs for martin and giving them a future first, do you think it would matter in the long run. And how about dan butler or gray from port, just a major fu** up in my opinion. Stephen silvagni has beena fantastic list manager for us, getting great trades done and doing well in the draft since he came along. But this hard lines approach of having to win every trade eventually catches up with you , because clubs become reluctant to deal with you, because they think that they are going to get unders for every trade they do with carlton, and no professional list manager or clubs wants to come out looking like a loser. i just don't understand how this happened, i guess over time it become clearer, i guess.

Yeah we want a list manager who clubs know they can get overs.........[emoji1751][emoji3061][emoji1751][emoji3061][emoji1751][emoji3061]

Sent from my CPH1879 using Tapatalk

 

[bluemahogany]

Understand the breakdown don't believe we should do this with a player such as Martin .
Secondly the AFL will find a way to **** us again it won't happen imo .

Why shouldn't we? We have to use the cap space there and chances are we were going to front load Martin and Papley anyway due to missing out on Coniglio. Doesn't negatively affect us at all.

 

[windows1]

Soo waited a while ( I learnt that after my occasional after game melts)

Here’s what I think:

Everything is opportunity cost. Nothing comes for free. Papley would have cost a lot in salary. And pick 9. We now keep both assets.

Martin would have cost say pick 20. We now may get him for nothing.

Now we have chances next year for Kennedy, Fish and Cunners. ALL have terrific potential.

Life is still awesome!

 

[SammaGilberto]

Btw why did we help Sydney to get nothing in return. Why.

Yeah, not sure on this one... we also did it in 15? or 16 was it with helping Hawks get JOM.

 

[WeninRome]

People baulked at paying Cogs a million plus, but are fine with overpaying for Martin in the PSD, which we don't even know will happen, delusional.

Pretty sure you've completely misread the situation.

 

[BlueTongue]

We helped Swans with later draft picks swap so they could land taylor. Why would we do that if Swans would not deal on Papley

This is my theory
We can still land Papley via live trading. Why do I get feeling that Swans wanted more time to try and convince him too stay. If it does not work, then SOS and Swans can negotiate a deal come draft night?

Hmmmmm Really? I thought it was live trading of picks only after the Trade period closes?

 

[BlueJet]

I feel that SPS is destined for the Yarran role of yesteryear and a now vacant Thomas position on the field.

Setterfield, Curnow and Walsh are still two good lads to have in the middle. Gibbons and I’d hope Deluca can provide respite on rotation. Dow is the one who needs to put on some size and come out of his second year blues. Then Murphy, Fisher, O’Brien and hopefully Cunningham for some outside capability.
Hope they have some good tackling coaches come in during the pre season.. a few slipped tackles cost us big time in the close contests this year.

I agree 100% mate - we can probably include Stocker in with the names that you've noted as well.
I do like SPS' class off the hbf but think spells through the middle will be beneficial as well as he has a knack of finding an additional split second and picking the right option out of the contest - the Doggies game first time around highlighted how much of an impact that he and Crippa can have as a 1-2 punch.
Re: tackling, I agree- I also feel that our setups at the stoppage can be too offensive which can lead to too many decisive clearances for the opposition, that said, it's not really unusual from a young midfield group.

 

[BigBreakfast]

We shouldn’t be getting players to commit publicly if we can’t get the deal done. I understand Martin to an extent, GC being dicks because they have to be. Papley is a disaster.

I think you will find that we told them we would love to accommodate them if a deal can be struck. Not, you are in. We couldn't strike a deal for a contracted player and with a nuffa club.

 

[ctwenty1]

My bet is we still trade 9 for other picks.

Tipping we try to trade it on draft night for a first rounder next year.
Going to need early picks for Papley & Wines

Yep- our pick 9 for crows future first

 

[teknodeejay]

Dodoro is hopeless. Look that the soft, underachieving side he's put together as list manager.

they think they’re a top 4 chance. Lol

 

[KohPhi]

So... who's up for a funny, thigh slapping gif story of today's events...

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

Ok, rant engaged.

Guys, what the fu** do you want SOS to do when the Swans straight up say "We won't trade Papley", and the Suns for whatever reason decided to play hardball? Would you rather SOS pay 2 firsts for Papley? Would you rather give up a first for Jack Martin, who may or may not be any good?

I can understand being upset and disappointed, but ignore the media, this is far from a disaster. We offered what we thought was fair, and their respective clubs said no. Would you rather we go back to the days of trading pick 7 for Kristian Jaksch and Mark Whiley?

Some people in here aren't seeing the bigger picture and it frustrates me. We're not in the window next year, so it's not the end of the world if we didn't get some of our targets. We have a young exciting list that are growing together, isn't that exciting? Isn't that enough to look forward to for next year?

Anyway rant over. Reading through this thread will be very informative to know who's opinion I should listen to and who's to ignore going forward.

How do you know the swans said they would not trade papely? I’ve not heard this. I’m sure if sos said pick 9 and even a future second for him that would have done it? I guess unless we were in the room we will never know. But feeling like we’ve let something big slip...

 

[RedFury]

A lot of the people melting in here at us not getting either trade done would be exactly the same people melting had we caved and met the exorbitant asking prices for them both.

As I've previously stated, a better line of examination is to ask serious questions about us focusing so heavily on two players who were ultimately, for different reasons, unattainable.

My only possible explanation, based on ITK posters info as well, is that in-principal agreements were made and then backflips occurred. Otherwise I struggle to explain how we didn't, to some extent, see this coming.

 

[HBF]

Wow, shocking trade period from Carlton.

We have no chance of doing a Brisbane next year. We should have at least offered Pick 9 for Wines. Look what Neale has done for Brisbane. Cripps must be spewing right now that we are just bringing in another kid with Pick 9.

No chance Port take 9 for Wines.

 

[Skull Face]

Wdym, GOLD COAST have the first selection in that, they'll retake him.

Why on earth didn't we offer pick 8 for Martin. I know he isn't worth that but we need him a lot more than we need pick 8

There is no way GC redraft him, he can dictate exactly how much he gets paid in each year of his contract.

Kurt Tippett got to pick 11 in the PSD, we only need to get him to pick 3.

Imagine the outrage from the AFLPA if GC did it. He has requested a trade 2 years in a row, he is uncontracted and refuses to sign for them even at the risk of ending up at Melbourne.

 

[BigBreakfast]

That's the issue. We could have got Butler for cheap. Instead we haven't addressed our needs. Disappointing. We had other options.

At the end of he day, I would have liked to see Butler through the door early on to fill a need.

 

[In Judd we trust]

is it an ideal trade poroid? no not really, but i am certain SOS has plans that goes beyond just this trade period. We have our picks still and live trading of picks is still a thing untill the draft night. I wouldn't be suprised to see 9 turned into a pick next year and we use both that and next years first for our next target. we have used 2 firsts recently in Dow and O'brien so we still have plenty that we can use without breaking the 2 picks in 4 years rule. Deep breathes guys, we were on the improve towards the end of season. We have Betts back and touch wood having Docherty back and fit will be better than anyone we could have got this trade period anyway.

Thanks to the ITK guys as well. It was a blast reading all the juicy info even if things changed its always greatly appreciated

 

[WeninRome]

What are we doing with all the spare salary cap space. We chased, Shiel, Cogs, Martin, Paps and got Zilch.

Paying Martin $1m for a year and then go after Whitfield, I guess.

 

[ETET]

I’m a lifelong Carlton supporter and I’ve been a Suns member for 6 years due to location so I’ve seen a lot of Jack Martin. But I have bitten my tongue (well keyboard) while this trade period has played out so I’m now going to give my honest appraisal of what has just occurred.

He was my favourite player early on based on a few very good games in the early years because he had amazing potential.

However .... he has consistently played about 4 decent games per year and teases with his potential, then goes missing for weeks at a time where he just seemed like he wasn’t interested at all, wouldn’t chase, tackle, or put his head over the ball to make a contest.

He is such a conditional player and chooses when to have a go and when he just can’t give a toss.

On numerous occasions this year I said that the Suns just needed to trade him while he still had some currency because he was playing like someone who clearly didn’t care and didn’t want to be at the club. I jokingly said to my wife that they can piss him off as long as he didn’t end up at Carlton ... then he nominated us and I just shook my head and said “for goodness sake I hope we don’t give up too much for him”.

What happened with Martin today is a very good outcome.
He is not worth a 1st round pick
He is not worth sliding back in the first round, and IMO ... (and in the case of any Suns players, for once I think my opinion counts for something) ...
He isn’t worth a 2nd round pick under 30

So SOS was 100% right not to be bent over on the Martin deal and if he plays another season like this year, he’d be a 4th rounder at best next year because of his give a toss attitude.

This is why GCS surely couldn’t entertain redrafting him in the PSD because they can’t afford to bring him back against his wishes on decent money, just to put up mediocre performances and drag down the club while they’re trying to improve their culture.

They had to make a stand, but it won’t help them in the end. Unfortunately we were in the breach on the occasion that they decided to do so. They have definitely put their club before the player, who I suspect will come out and say (via his manager) that he would rather sit out of footy that return to the Suns after what has occurred.

If we get him in the PSD fine. But SOS & Co. did the right thing today

As for Papley .... what can you do? He is contracted and Swans didn’t want to play ball.

We haven’t compromised by going after lesser quality targets and we haven’t given away the farm for the ones we wanted.

Great post, honest, clear and sensible.

 

[gandaal]

So... who's up for a little bit of blackmail?

Pick 9 and 43 to Freo for Pick 10 and 22.

 

[ctwenty1]

How do you know the swans said they would not trade papely? I’ve not heard this. I’m sure if sos said pick 9 and even a future second for him that would have done it? I guess unless we were in the room we will never know. But feeling like we’ve let something big slip...

Something big slip... like a small forward?