Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[HBF]

Well that was a brutal read, but I got through it in the end.

 

[zeggie]

Silvagni mentioned it as an option in the interview.

Silvagni mentioned "pre season draft" in the interview.

Comprehension.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So was our future 2nd & 3rd for an uncontracted player who got dropped twice and wants out

I don't know what our offer was. Only what they wanted from us.

 

[BigBreakfast]

I’m a lifelong Carlton supporter and I’ve been a Suns member for 6 years due to location so I’ve seen a lot of Jack Martin. But I have bitten my tongue (well keyboard) while this trade period has played out so I’m now going to give my honest appraisal of what has just occurred.

He was my favourite player early on based on a few very good games in the early years because he had amazing potential.

However .... he has consistently played about 4 decent games per year and teases with his potential, then goes missing for weeks at a time where he just seemed like he wasn’t interested at all, wouldn’t chase, tackle, or put his head over the ball to make a contest.

He is such a conditional player and chooses when to have a go and when he just can’t give a toss.

On numerous occasions this year I said that the Suns just needed to trade him while he still had some currency because he was playing like someone who clearly didn’t care and didn’t want to be at the club. I jokingly said to my wife that they can piss him off as long as he didn’t end up at Carlton ... then he nominated us and I just shook my head and said “for goodness sake I hope we don’t give up too much for him”.

What happened with Martin today is a very good outcome.
He is not worth a 1st round pick
He is not worth sliding back in the first round, and IMO ... (and in the case of any Suns players, for once I think my opinion counts for something) ...
He isn’t worth a 2nd round pick under 30

So SOS was 100% right not to be bent over on the Martin deal and if he plays another season like this year, he’d be a 4th rounder at best next year because of his give a toss attitude.

This is why GCS surely couldn’t entertain redrafting him in the PSD because they can’t afford to bring him back against his wishes on decent money, just to put up mediocre performances and drag down the club while they’re trying to improve their culture.

They had to make a stand, but it won’t help them in the end. Unfortunately we were in the breach on the occasion that they decided to do so. They have definitely put their club before the player, who I suspect will come out and say (via his manager) that he would rather sit out of footy that return to the Suns after what has occurred.

If we get him in the PSD fine. But SOS & Co. did the right thing today

As for Papley .... what can you do? He is contracted and Swans didn’t want to play ball.

We haven’t compromised by going after lesser quality targets and we haven’t given away the farm for the ones we wanted.

Thanks for the insight N17.

 

[Eiffel 65]

He won't nominate for national draft

Sent from my CPH1879 using Tapatalk

Do you know how this works?

Can you nominate for the preseason draft and not the national draft?

Isn't the preseason draft held after the national draft? So what if the Bulldogs, North, Essendon or St Kilda pull the trigger and select Martin before we do?

 

[Vamos Juddamente]

Would have liked Papley but seriously you would think he was the next Leigh Mathews with all this carry on. Martin I don’t rate and never wanted way too inconsistent. Gold Coast can not let go all that potential they thought he had do asked for a premiem when in reality he has shown bugger all.

The need for a small foward is a little over played. You saw once Teague took over we overnight went to one of the highest foward pressure sides overnight. This shows that foward half tackling is not really personale driven it is structural and attitudinal.

I happy for us to draft a gun with pick 9 and watch the improvement in our list develop organically.

 

[Blue Doormat]

I’ve asked this before but not sure I got the answer.
What is stopping Jack Martin not nominating for either draft and being picked up as a DFA? Is it because he’s not strictly delisted? At some stage GCS his contract expires doesn’t it.
Is there a rule against it?

 

[ajs071]

Harley Bennell. Please people.

 

[Marc Shmurf 3]

In summing everything up:

Papley - Contracted for another 3 years. Sydney wanted much more than pick 9. That’s way overs and SOS and crew didn’t buckle.

Martin - Gold Coast wanted a future 1st and 2nd round pick for an UN-CONTRACTED Martin and pick 15. This is for a bloke who once has had 30 touches and finished off the year in their reserves. Once again SOS and crew didn’t buckle and we will get him for next to nothing in the draft or PSD.

 

[OZBomb]

Wow... Everyone lost their mind for a bit there. It'll be ok.

SOS did what he could, you can't just completely overpay and you can't buy something that isn't for sale.

Thanks to all the ITK posters. Let's do this all again next year.

 

[Ockhams razor]

Blues were done over.

Deals were agreed to, then reneged upon and more, much more was sought for both Papley & Martin.

Last night Dodoro was offered pick 9, next years 1st and 2nd by Swans, who were going to seek AFL approval to enable deal to proceed or obtain a future 2nd as part of other deals.

Dodoro has shafted a family member of Essendon royalty who wanted to leave Melbourne for relative anonymity in Sydney.

AFL complicit in the shafting we received by the Gold Coast Suns, told they needed to flex their muscle and harden up.

SOS didn’t fail, at this point he hasn’t delivered the players but he also didn’t overpay.

Very obvious many in here have never been involved in a commercial negotiation of any significance.

 

[Dominator_7]

Just get the best small forward in the draft with pick 9. Someone like Cody Weightman. The kid will flourish under the tutelage of Eddie. Problem solved.

 

[choo]

We didn’t miss out on Coniglio
He didn’t leave !!!!!!

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Wonder if we will do something funky like trade pick 9 for a couple of first rounders next year in order to load up for another crack at a big player next year. Guess it depends on what's available at pick 9 and potential trade targets next year.

Outside of GCS, who has multiple firsts in 2020 that we can trade the 9 for?

 

[blue healer]

Should have given Richmond pick 9 for martin - oh wait he wasn't available.......just like papley

Sent from my CPH1879 using Tapatalk

So Papley wasn't available?

What the **** have our list management team been doing for the last 7 days?

 

[Franc de Borges]

Silvagni mentioned "pre season draft" in the interview.

Comprehension.

He mentions National Draft twice in the interview on the website. No need for the smart arse bit when you’re the one in the wrong.

 

[Cripptonite]

Trade Period Analysis

1) Betts- Decent pickup for a year or two. Gave up nothing major. As it turned out, was a good thing we got him as he will fill the small forward void. TICK

2) Pittonet in for Phillips- Don't know a lot about Pittonet but seems a like-for-like replacement. Ruck depth behind Kreuzer and TDK. MEH

3) Martin Miss- If we get him in the PSD (I think we will) then it's a huge win. I would have been pissed if we coughed up Gold Coast's insane asking price. They give away picks to every club and then when it comes to us they bite off their nose to spite their face. Stupid club that deserved no assistance from the AFL if they make these decisions. I was a supporter of the AFL trying to make it work at the Suns, but now I think they should fold/move to Tassie, incompetent mismanagement. It will happen in a few years anyway, like a couple of Victorian 18 year olds and Brandon Ellis will help that basket case.They will rue this next year when Martin is playing well for us and they win 2 games if they are lucky. TICK

4) Papley Miss- Hard to dissect properly as we don't know the inner machinations of this deal. Sounds like we had a deal if Daniher went through which we all knew from early on it would not get done unless Swans paid ridiculous overs. Wonder if we had have offered Pick 9 straight up (or slightly more) whether that would have got it done. Hard to know whether this one is on us or we were just a victim of circumstance.

For whatever reason, it didn't go through which is a huge opportunity missed. What does this mean for us in 12 months time? Will Papley be out of contract? Will we have other trade targets? Will he want to come to Carlton and what will the price look like? Will the Swans continue to be hypocritical assholes at the trade table? So many variables. HUGE LOSS

5) Ignored Discard Options- Very pleased that we didn't go trade in Butler, Cutler, Ellis, Tomlinson, Bonar etc. Would have been an absolute waste of a list spot and salary cap. Proven failures. TICK

What does this mean for us generally moving forward:

-We continue to build through the draft. Not a disaster as we have a young talented list but we need to start improving soon whilst Cripps is in beast mode. However 90% of improvement will come from internal growth, trading is normally the icing not the cake. Plenty of teams have had massive rises despite not much trade period action in the prior offseason.

-Who is available at Pick 9? They must have their eyes on a few kids considering our reluctance to part ways with it. Take the best available IMO. Is there opportunity for a favourable pick swap?

-We will have heaps of cap space next year having budgeted for Cogs and Papley (and potentially Martin). Will be pressure on the recruiting team to land one or two decent targets considering this year's misses. Tom Papley? Ollie Wines?

-What does this mean for our reputation as traders? I'm assuming other clubs will start to think twice now approaching contracted players especially if they play for us, Freo, Swans or the Dons. At the same time will it make contracted players more hesitant to "nominate" us? Maybe, Maybe not. Would love to know the full details behind the Papley deal.

 

[ep2018]

You blokes will play well and play finals next year regardless of Essendon's *ery.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

ATO love this idea

Huh? ATO couldn’t care less...it’s not a tax dodge and would have literally zero impact on the total tax he pays.

 

[SBYM]

OR and Shmurf go BANG!!!!!!!

 

[bigdog43]

See ya!,


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

Bye bye

I’m back, who was I kidding?

 

[Eiffel 65]

In summing everything up:

Papley - Contracted for another 3 years. Sydney wanted much more than pick 9. That’s way overs and SOS and crew didn’t buckle.

Martin - Gold Coast wanted a future 1st and 2nd round pick for an UN-CONTRACTED Martin and pick 15. This is for a bloke who once has had 30 touches and finished off the year in their reserves. Once again SOS and crew didn’t buckle and we will get him for next to nothing in the draft or PSD.

Do you know if there's an option to pick Martin up as a delisted player without going through the draft?

This has now turned into quite an interesting situation.

 

[choo]

Blues were done over.

AFL complicit in the shafting we received by the Gold Coast Suns, told they needed to flex their muscle and harden up.

Very obvious many in here have never been involved in a commercial negotiation of any significance.

 

[The wily weagle]

Do you still trade based on potential 100 games into a career? Surely clubs take that sort of risk for 18 year olds with the junior pedigree, not 25 year olds living off that junior pedigree? It would be akin to Port Adelaide trading Pick 9 for Jack Watts because he was a number one draft pick 8 years prior.

That's a very valid point

I look at a guy like Papley and I see a guy who, whilst playing great football, is probably about as good as he is ever going to be. That's not a knock on him, he just doesn't have a high ceiling

With Martin I still see signs he could play some great football, with the right coach and the right environment. Gold coast aren't exactly known for great development and bringing out the best in their draftees, but with the right people around him I still firmly believe Jack could be an excellent footballer. As was aforementioned, I have always envisioned him as goal kicking winger, and that wouldn't be a bad fit at Carlton

So I suppose it comes down to, does the club believe that this draft crop is talented enough to be worth keeping pick 9, or do you roll the dice, back in your coaching and support staff and try to help Martin realise his significant potential? There is no easy answer

For me, I think he's worth the risk, but that's just my opinion

 

[T2B_]

Not too concerned about Papley, Swans were always playing hardball and were being a-hole-ish, but then we did the same to Gibbs one year. It was always a tough ask, especially with DODO involved.