Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[FRUMPY]

My only contributions during this whole thing is to pass on info from another forum put forward by those in the know, and the only contribution I will make to this collective bed-shitting relates to them as well.

These guys know stuff, hear stuff, are genuine, and have proven their cred time and time again. They don't deserve to be potted by a bunch of keyboard warriors who wait months/years to emerge from the shadows just because they didn't get the Christmas presents they wanted.

Some of the best have already been lost due to this very thing, and don't be surprised if next year no-one comes forward with any mail because they know their only reward will be to get shit on by a bunch of entitled nobodies.

Same time, if im an 'ITK' person I would just ignore criticism - people take things to seriously.

 

[FRUMPY]

Then why spend 10 days trying to trade for him.

Brick wall

 

[Stamos]

Lets have a debate now then.

3 players wanted to go to Carlton Papley, Martin and Betts.

1. We are not basket case if good players have nominated us.

2. We manage to get Eddie Betts for a token pick without paying full salary (Good), everyone loves a good story.

3. Papley deal was never going to get done unless the Joe Danniher was traded to Sydney. Sydney didn't want lose a good quality player without another quality player coming back in. Therefore this trade was out of hand literally.

“We were told unequivocally that picks five and nine wouldn’t get it done. I guess when you’re talking about responsibility to your club, to get nine without the guarantee of getting Joe, I don’t think that would be responsible list management”

Source: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/10...-and-the-two-swans-mentioned-in-negotiations/

4. Gold Coast asking price for Jack Martin was too much. They asked for out Future First + Future Second Round for Jack Martin + Pick 15.

source: https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=446921

Based on draft calculator and where we finish this year that rates Martin as Pick 13. So if we did end up trading our future first (good chance to be a top 8 pick) and future second (pick in 20s). It literally cripples us next year when there are good quality FA in 2020 with no trade assests. So why burn ourselves for Jack Martin when there are 'better' players in next year pool.

1. Whitfield
2. Crouch
3. Grundy
4. Cameron
5. Gaff
6. Heppell

"But next year draft is compromise", no one knows how the 2020 draft will turn out, some of these kids can turn out to be spuds and hype.

Edit: "but the facts are we didn't get our targets and the perception across the industry is that we're (still) a basketcase." That is a long bow to draw unless you know everyone in the industry and personal views. Everyone viewed Gold Coast a Basket Case and yet they had a few players requesting a trade up there.

Great post, except you forgot Zac Williams

 

[jd2010]

My only contributions during this whole thing is to pass on info from another forum put forward by those in the know, and the only contribution I will make to this collective bed-shitting relates to them as well.

These guys know stuff, hear stuff, are genuine, and have proven their cred time and time again. They don't deserve to be potted by a bunch of keyboard warriors who wait months/years to emerge from the shadows just because they didn't get the Christmas presents they wanted.

Some of the best have already been lost due to this very thing, and don't be surprised if next year no-one comes forward with any mail because they know their only reward will be to get shit on by a bunch of entitled nobodies.

I just think it needs to be said that those who said we had Shiel, said we had Papley and Martin.

They may have information that is correct at the time but they essential dont know what is going on. Just like journos rarely do too. They'll take a lot of stabs and get the occasional one right. Clubs/agents only leak info they want to get out to journalists not BF posters. Sources close to players may spread info but players don't move the chess pieces.

 

[FRUMPY]

I’ll bite champa, there in now a month until the draft, this means a whole month where clubs can get into Martin’s ear, such as the bulldogs who he had considered offers from, let’s say the bulldogs say nominate for the draft and we’ll take you at pick x, you can come play in a team that has a genuine chance to win the flag or you can go to Carlton and sit middle of the table, we probably promised him a forward line of McKay, curnow, guts, Papley and Betts along with him, now Papley is gone he probably cops the best small defender, meaning his output isn’t as damaging, where does our major improvement come from? Pick 9, a speculative pick in what’s considered a fairly weak draft? Doc comes back but is coming off two reco’s, everyone here has excepted trash for years and this is why we are where we are, like Brisbane with Neale they overpaid and they reaped the rewards finishing top 4, we failed to do so with Papley and now we will sit middle of the table with the great outfits like Melbourne, north, freo and Essendon, sounds like a grand old time to me...

Then we don't get Martin, not a world beater and we move on.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Dodoro shits me as much as any other Essendon representative but he only gives a shit about Essendon, no-one else.

He'll back his club in to get Daniher and Fantasia back on board.

Don't think there will be a problem with Fantasia but Daniher big opportunity for them to cash in imo .
Our problem was entering into a trade that was dependant on Essendon .
If you get players to nominate get the deals done if not then you've chosen the wrong targets ..

 

[rampar]

The new rumour re GC's intentions not to redraft Martin does make practical sense. GC can afford to send a message because they don't need the picks but equally don't need a disgruntled player who wasn't in their best 22 by the end of the year. Not to mention the risk of enraging the AFLPA.

yeah but they are hoping the demons get him before us.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

My understanding is that SOS did not offer pick#9 for Papley. When asked the question on TV he said in response: " it ( pick#9) was part of the total offer" so in Carlton's opinion Papley was not worth pick#9 to Carlton - SOS wanted something back...

Well we've now got pick#9 to use in the draft.

So as you said, he did offer it. He just wanted something back as well.
If the Swans decided they were willing to trade Papley without getting Daniher, even in principle, someone would have blinked in the dying stages and it would have happened.

 

[Opine]

My only contributions during this whole thing is to pass on info from another forum put forward by those in the know, and the only contribution I will make to this collective bed-shitting relates to them as well.

These guys know stuff, hear stuff, are genuine, and have proven their cred time and time again. They don't deserve to be potted by a bunch of keyboard warriors who wait months/years to emerge from the shadows just because they didn't get the Christmas presents they wanted.

Some of the best have already been lost due to this very thing, and don't be surprised if next year no-one comes forward with any mail because they know their only reward will be to get shit on by a bunch of entitled nobodies.

Your contribution has been, and continues to be, highly appreciated. Thank you DS.

 

[Gavstar]

Maybe plan B is drafting a small forward to learn from Eddie...

Idiots on the internet assuming because Jon Ralph or Terry Wallace haven't reported our "plan B" that we don't have one...

My opinion is that Melbourne will take the best small forward at pick 8, they have suggested that publically. So we might get the second best small forward (if they work out)

Eddie Betts was in his fifth year before he was kicking 30+ goals per year, so based on that Cripps, Doc, McGovern and Plowman will be 30 when that player is hitting their straps and Eddie will be a long time retired.

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

yeah but they are hoping the demons get him before us.

Who supposedly don't have as much room in their cap as we do.

 

[KnobHead]

I've wanted an established wingman for 2 years.

Would you rather Butler or Cam Polson?

LOB, who we have


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bostonian]

LOB, who we have


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Next time you're at a game take note, there are two wings on a football field.

 

[Schrempfian]

Next Trade Period - if SOS doesn't trade for every single available player - it will be an utter fail

[this is some peoples logic on here - there are 17 other teams you know]

 

[Coops93]

LOB, who we have


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

With Betts playing Small Forward I reckon Gibbons could have a fair go at the other Wing as well.

 

[Broadside]

Next time you're at a game take note, there are two wings on a football field.

true, and yet everyone congregates around the ball like a rugby scrum.

 

[Blue__Balls]

The clubs been half wanting to....

Ellis and Martin both play outside mid do they not champ?

Martin's still on the cards, champ.

 

[KohPhi]

Don't think there will be a problem with Fantasia but Daniher big opportunity for them to cash in imo .
Our problem was entering into a trade that was dependant on Essendon .
If you get players to nominate get the deals done if not then you've chosen the wrong targets ..

Yep, can't argue with any of that. It was pretty apparent that Dodoro wanted a player in the deal. Everyone knew that late last week and everyone knew Swans weren't going to give a player.

So why didn't we move to another target?

Maybe we didn't have one. Our list is pretty solid now, we don't need to add players for the sake of it to fill a multitude of list gaps.

 

[DangerousD]

So if we believe Swans & Blues -

Swans - we will trade you papley if the daniher trade goes through (deal agreed to), otherwise he is not up for trade

If we believe nuffies:

Blues response should have been - 'we will give you pick 9 and sign the papers without your consent'

Just like stats, we can make a hypothetical look favourable to either side. There have been many reports on what we offered, none that I read, mentioned offering 9 on its own. It’s totally possible, Sydney still say, no deal, I’m not sure, or we could have offered slightly more, as I think you need to, when going after contracted players, see Hill and Kelly.

It seems SOS was taken for a ride and put all our eggs in the Papley basket and was left with egg on his face

I just hope that as a list manager SOS wouldn’t walk away from a deal for a guy who’s nominated us, over what I think is something small.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Would have been in the same position if we'd traded for Papley, yeah? We also have multiple late picks if we want to grab another small forward there too. Could draft 4 if we want.

We miss Papley, instead we draft a quality small forward who gets to learn from the best in the business. Papley can still have another crack at coming over next year and take Eddie's spot. And if he doesn't, well, we've got another 12 months to target someone else.

Has there been correspondence from the club that we actually will draft a small forward at 9 ?.
I suspect we'll be going for another mid .

 

[billybloggs]

Cunners now gets to play the role that Papley would have. If Cunners gets a good run at it without injuries we will have developed rather than stalled a player the club has invested in long term. Its Cunners time right now to step up and be the player we think he can be.

 

[FRUMPY]

My opinion is that Melbourne will take the best small forward at pick 8, they have suggested that publically. So we might get the second best small forward (if they work out)

Eddie Betts was in his fifth year before he was kicking 30+ goals per year, so based on that Cripps, Doc, McGovern and Plowman will be 30 when that player is hitting their straps and Eddie will be a long time retired.

Hard to kick a lot of goals in your first few years when the club finishes last, last and 2nd last in your first 3 years. If we are going places like we think we are, a half decent small forward will easily kick 25+ goals a year within a year or 2

 

[Broadside]

Cunners now gets to play the role that Papley would have. If Cunners gets a good run at it without injuries we will have developed rather than stalled a player the club has invested in long term. Its Cunners time right now to step up and be the player we think he can be.

isn't there also a lot of positive talk from VFL watchers about Owie's potential as a small forward (or was it Cottrell)?

 

[Brendon Bolt]

The silver lining here is we can pay majority of martins 4 year deal in the first year opening up further cap space for following year.

I’d be keen, if possible, to offload pick 9 to someone to get a similar pick for the following year, giving us two firsts, as well as 2nd and 3rd.

In 12 months time, you’d think we’d then have capacity to go hard for a needs player (using two first rounders, ala Tim Kelly) and utilise free agency if someone is available.

Don’t get me wrong, shattered we missed papley, but I felt the same last year about Shiel and to be honest, reckon we dodged a bullet there.

 

[JustaBattler]

Tom Harley said this morning that Swans offered 5 and 9. Sounds like they were accepting our offer.

No they never accepted our 'offer' - our offer ( meaning pick#9 and something back) was always contingent on Sydney getting Daniher - Sydney's 'acceptance' was always conditional and that is what SOS got wrong. He effectively gave Sydney a free option and was prepared to see what happens . right to the very end....

That would be ok - if he truly believed that there was not one single alternative player in the whole of the AFL that could improve our list with any of the picks we had available.