News Jack Dyer loses 1932 B&F .

[TigerImposter]

Not quite correct. Polled 12 votes, as did Stan Judkins.

Haere Ra

Give them both an award as they bloody deserve it.

 

[rbartlett]

I noticed someone on facebook posted a page on the jack Dyer book that jack said himself when he missed the Gf win,He mentioned winning the B&F in 32.
So now i'm confused.If jack knew he won it whatever way it was awarded(Sponsors) then surely the club knew via the great man himself anyway.

That reference was made in a reprint after the retrospective changes in 1988. Hence the reference.
In the original publication theres no mention of it.

Up until the retrospective changes none of these players affected had the award credited to them.

 

[rmcq]

That reference was made in a reprint after the retrospective changes in 1988. Hence the reference.
In the original publication theres no mention of it.

Up until the retrospective changes none of these players affected had the award credited to them.

Rhett, do you have any further information on what happened in 1988?

 

[rbartlett]

Rhett, do you have any further information on what happened in 1988?

I do, but I dont want to throw anyone under a bus etc, suffice to say when the changes were made retrospectively the documents used (Annual Reports, Minute Books) were misinterpreted.

The committee and board accept this to be the case, hence the changes

 

[rmcq]

I do, but I dont want to throw anyone under a bus etc, suffice to say when the changes were made retrospectively the documents used (Annual Reports, Minute Books) were misinterpreted.

The committee and board accept this to be the case, hence the changes

I hope that clears things up for some here, thanks for replying.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

That reference was made in a reprint after the retrospective changes in 1988. Hence the reference.
In the original publication theres no mention of it.

Up until the retrospective changes none of these players affected had the award credited to them.

I see.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

I read a few pages of the depressing back and forth in here....

I am off to the MR thread to watch the video of the son of another champion of the club... more about the future rather than get lost in this ..

 

[Ron The Bear]

I read a few pages of the depressing back and forth in here....

I am off to the MR thread to watch the video of the son of another champion of the club... more about the future rather than get lost in this ..

I guess the good thing is that people care. Had previously been under the impression that very few were interested in the club's history beyond what they themselves could remember.

 

[BF Tiger]

Everyone knows ruckmen don't win bnfs. Speedy on ballers on the other hand...

If we’d pulled off “the London job” I think I would’ve started HFF after half-time, about 30 m from goal on a 45deg angle. You, as the opposition, HBF, had to hit me hard and make sure the ump was looking.

 

[tigerdan]

If we’d pulled off “the London job” I think I would’ve started HFF after half-time, about 30 m from goal on a 45deg angle. You, as the opposition, HBF, had to hit me hard and make sure the ump was looking.

Guess Chris Hemsworth gets to play you in the movie adaptation.

To avoid this being too much of an in joke, bftiger and I were drunk planning to dress up in authentic Richmond and essendon gear at the exhibition match in London. Jump on the ground pretending we were on the rookie list with like number 50 on the jumpers. I'd then give a blatant free on bftiger right in front of goals and straight into the history books.

 

[BF Tiger]

Guess Chris Hemsworth gets to play you in the movie adaptation.

To avoid this being too much of an in joke, bftiger and I were drunk planning to dress up in authentic Richmond and essendon gear at the exhibition match in London. Jump on the ground pretending we were on the rookie list with like number 50 on the jumpers. I'd then give a blatant free on bftiger right in front of goals and straight into the history books.

This is roughly the gist. This was back when they let fans on the ground at half time. Just had to listen in at the huddle and strip off, then move to position with the rest of the players and hoped no one noticed. TBH I reckon some of the AFL players might’ve helped things along because it was such a Mickey Mouse affair.

 

[Punt rd end]

Interestingly Jack only played 10 games in 1932. Season was 18 games. Last game was Round 11 v North at Punt Rd.

And of course we won GF.

Haere Ra

It is interesting that wiki has it listed as disputed

Dyer played successfully in the first half of the season before suffering a serious knee injury that put him out for the rest of the year. In ten matches, Dyer received four best afield Brownlow medal votes, collected enough votes to win the Tigers' best fairest and , although this is in dispute as there is no actual evidence that Dyer actually won the award, or even that there was one presented in 1932, and was chosen for Victoria after fewer than a dozen league matches.

 

[Tiger Soze]

I do, but I dont want to throw anyone under a bus etc, suffice to say when the changes were made retrospectively the documents used (Annual Reports, Minute Books) were misinterpreted.

The committee and board accept this to be the case, hence the changes

I think a diplomatic way to put it may be that the club was quite amateurish up until about 15-20 years ago.
The history of the club is paramount and in another 50 odd years this will have been just a blip if anything at all.
Doesn’t change the esteem that Captain Blood is held in past, present or future.
Well done to you rbartlett for ensuring your history of the club book is correct.

 

[Punt rd end]

His niece gab turner is kicking up a s**t storm on one of the Facebook groups, accusing Rhett of Changing it so his dad will be equal in b&fs lol She is quite a nutter the family left her out of the street sign celebrations and she won’t give his son some sort of other medal she has. Best not to engage with her

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

And it's pretty tacky to give someone something in the late 80's (fifty years after the event), and then take it away thirty years later

Even more tacky is taking it away when they are dead and they don't have the opportunity to defend their position.

Accuracy is one thing. But our club chose to issue these awards retrospectively. To turn around and say "soz, our bad, lol" is pretty pathetic in my book

And this isn't about Dyer, it's more about the rest who lack the accolades he had, and to whom thiS may have meant more

It seems a no brainer to me.
On one hand you can make a decision that could offend people (Richmond people at that), or on the other hand not offend nor have anyone none the wiser.
I’m not sure how anyone arrives at option A but here we are!
Personally I won’t lose sleep over it but I’m just surprised because the club just seems to do everything spectacularly brilliantly these days but this is just odd and against the grain.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It is interesting that wiki has it listed as disputed

Dyer played successfully in the first half of the season before suffering a serious knee injury that put him out for the rest of the year. In ten matches, Dyer received four best afield Brownlow medal votes, collected enough votes to win the Tigers' best fairest and , although this is in dispute as there is no actual evidence that Dyer actually won the award, or even that there was one presented in 1932, and was chosen for Victoria after fewer than a dozen league matches.

Fwiw that line was an anonymous edit put in in 2015

 

[rmcq]

It seems a no brainer to me.
On one hand you can make a decision that could offend people (Richmond people at that), or on the other hand not offend nor have anyone none the wiser.
I’m not sure how anyone arrives at option A but here we are!
Personally I won’t lose sleep over it but I’m just surprised because the club just seems to do everything spectacularly brilliantly these days but this is just odd and against the grain.

The truth would have come out eventually. If it wasn’t Rhett Bartlett stumbling across the 1988 embarrassment, it would have been another amateur historian sometime in the future.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

The truth would have come out eventually. If it wasn’t Rhett Bartlett stumbling across the 1988 embarrassment, it would have been another amateur historian sometime in the future.

Meh.
Just all seems irrelevant to me.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Meh.
Just all seems irrelevant to me.

Accuracy in historical records is important!

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Accuracy in historical records is important!

Doesn’t bother me and I think most history is filled with speculative guesswork and mayonnaise added over time because none of us were there.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Doesn’t bother me and I think most history is filled with speculative guesswork and mayonnaise added over time because none of us were there.

JD is currently losing his 1932 B&F on speculative guesses dripping with mayo?!?!

 

[rmcq]

Doesn’t bother me and I think most history is filled with speculative guesswork and mayonnaise added over time because none of us were there.

19 years of research is just speculative guesswork? Come on.

 

[Tiger Soze]

JD is currently losing his 1932 B&F on speculative guesses dripping with mayo?!?!

No he isn’t losing that B&F at all as it wasn’t awarded in the first place, that’s the whole point in this development.

“There are no existing honour boards recognising the best and fairests that need to be changed and the club remains open to players from that time being recognised as a best-and-fairest winner if evidence can be found that the best and fairests were awarded.“

 

[jarrod_island_doggies]

I do, but I dont want to throw anyone under a bus etc, suffice to say when the changes were made retrospectively the documents used (Annual Reports, Minute Books) were misinterpreted.

The committee and board accept this to be the case, hence the changes

Thanks for the work you've put in Rhett (alongside others). I assumed most people who have been pontificating about a "pencil-necked dweeb" move to "burn the history of the club" would eventually calm down and put two and two together - surely Richmond people, who bleed yellow and black, researched for close to two decades an anomaly in the records wouldn't have been twiddling their thumbs on some vendetta against Captain Blood. Obviously mistakes were made in the 1980s and in a reflection of what would certainly be a sensitive issue, the decision-makers of the time weren't dragged through the mud to emphasise your point.

Calm your farm everyone, nobody is saying Jack was born Hans Sprungfeld & I would be very surprised if this administration planned to sweep aside the stories of the 16 players who made a huge contribution to the story of Richmond - my reading would be that in time to come, there may be more published about them, but who knows?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

No he isn’t losing that B&F at all as it wasn’t awarded in the first place, that’s the whole point in this development.

“There are no existing honour boards recognising the best and fairests that need to be changed and the club remains open to players from that time being recognised as a best-and-fairest winner if evidence can be found that the best and fairests were awarded.“

Ok, ok my post was directed to RD in relation to Historical accuracy is 'speculative guesswork dripping with Mayo'... ...
Well maybe you need to have a go at the Thread Title as well just for accuracy...
But for you in reference to JD not being awarded the 1932 B&F...it has not been speculative guesswork dripping with Mayo! ...would I now be correct?!?