Moved Thread Bailey Smith vs Sam Walsh

[Th3 DoG FaTh3R]

Smith looks like a jet but I don’t see the Dusty comparisons at all

In terms of a player comparison Smith is very similar by my eye to the bullocking Mark Ricciuto. Speed, power, strength and aggression in the contest, precision kicking with excellent penetration. The roo was an excellent goal kicking midfielder and Smith can hit the scoreboard consistently also.
His speed allows him to escape congestion easily once the ball has been won and his composure and vision means he is capable in finding the right target despite being an inside ball winner. When he does get caught, Smith has an amazing ability to stand in the the tackle and still get a handball away. Not a unique trait in itself but his is done predominantly through strength and power as he shrugs off the tackler rather than guile or technique, which for a second year player is rarer.

 

[BEaston]

Give up mate, you're around in circles trying to fill in gaps that don't exist, responding to arguments that haven't been made.

the posts are there for everyone to see dude

Lol. You Dogs fans are so insecure.

Can accept people saying Smith is or will be better, but by far is a load of bollocks.

Agree with you, by far is bollocks. I agree with the guy posting before that Walsh has had one of the best first seasons of all time (I wouldn't say the best as he did - but it was very very good). He's going to be elite (top 20 player), which I also think Smith will be. Once you get into that realm of player the difference between them is not all that much.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Lol. You Dogs fans are so insecure.

Can accept people saying Smith is or will be better, but by far is a load of bollocks.

Okay. I can accept your differing view. But what part of my sentence implied I was insecure? Sounds like you are. I would be too if 90% of my teams top draft picks for the last decade were duds.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

the posts are there for everyone to see dude

Agree with you, by far is bollocks. I agree with the guy posting before that Walsh has had one of the best first seasons of all time (I wouldn't say the best as he did - but it was very very good). He's going to be elite (top 20 player), which I also think Smith will be. Once you get into that realm of player the difference between them is not all that much.

Thank you for some common sense and objectivity.

Honestly can't we just celebrate all of these talented young guns without the need to slag off/put down others?
Walsh was always gonna be a solid player from day one, but I dare say even the Doggies hierarchy were surprised and delighted about Smudger (Smith's) progress.

It will be an all time great draft, Walsh, Smith, Rozee, Rankine, Lukosisus, The King Twins etc

You can lock in most of those kids as future All Australians at some point.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Okay. I can accept your differing view. But what part of my sentence implied I was insecure? Sounds like you are. I would be too if 90% of my teams top draft picks for the last decade were duds.

Actually, our top draft picks have not been the problem, it's our second/third/fourth and rookie picks that have been shithouse.. (Weitering has emerged as the premier young key defender in the game)

If you are going to troll, at least get some basic facts right.

 

[CarnTheScray]

Actually, our top draft picks have not been the problem, it's our second/third/fourth and rookie picks that have been shithouse.. (Weitering has emerged as the premier young key defender in the game)

If you are going to troll, at least get some basic facts right.

Not trolling. Paddy Dow was a top pick but was shocking last year. Weitering though is a gun I can agree.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Not trolling. Paddy Dow was a top pick but was shocking last year. Weitering though is a gun I can agree.

Oh yeah, forget about Paddy Dow. Cannot deny we are having some issues with the kid.

 

[Ambrosia]

Actually, our top draft picks have not been the problem, it's our second/third/fourth and rookie picks that have been shithouse.. (Weitering has emerged as the premier young key defender in the game)

If you are going to troll, at least get some basic facts right.

I’m not sure Carlton’s drafting has been great. The 2017 draft looms as a potential bust year for the blues

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I’m not sure Carlton’s drafting has been great. The 2017 draft looms as a potential bust year for the blues

Well you can say that about every club over the years.

2014 was our most putrid draft and trade period I would say in the past ten years, but to be fair, that turned out to be one of the worst drafts of all time..
Petracca and DeGoey are the only A Graders from that crop so far, but I think Darcy Moore will get there..

 

[Ambrosia]

Well you can say that about every club over the years.

2014 was our most putrid draft and trade period I would say in the past ten years, but to be fair, that turned out to be one of the worst drafts of all time..
Petracca and DeGoey are the only A Graders from that crop so far, but I think Darcy Moore will get there..

Definitely but getting quality players in 2017 would be a huge help to the Blues current list and 2014 was under a different regime so not worth mentioning.

 

[Sentinel]

Carlton have certainly had more misses than hits over the past 10 years of 1st round draft picks (2009-2018, ignoring last year because its far too early):

- Wins: Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Walsh
- Failures: Lucas, Watson, Bootsma, Menzel, Boekhurst, Cuningham
- Juries still out: McKay (likely win), O'Brien, Stocker, Petrevski-Seton (not sure), Dow (likely fail)

Besides Cripps and Walsh, the 2015 draft has been the saving grace.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Definitely but getting quality players in 2017 would be a huge help to the Blues current list and 2014 was under a different regime so not worth mentioning.

The 2017 National Draft was not that flash either imo.

Astonishing that the best player from that crop (Worpel) went at pick #45

 

[Ambrosia]

Carlton have certainly had more misses than hits over the past 10 years of 1st round draft picks (2009-2018, ignoring last year because its far too early):

- Wins: Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Walsh
- Failures: Lucas, Watson, Bootsma, Menzel, Boekhurst, Cuningham
- Juries still out: McKay (likely win), O'Brien, Stocker, Petrevski-Seton (not sure), Dow (likely fail)

Besides Cripps and Walsh, the 2015 draft has been the saving grace.

Pre 2015 is dark days for Carlton but they’ve changed recruiters since then. Jury still out on how good their new team is.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Carlton have certainly had more misses than hits over the past 10 years of 1st round draft picks (2009-2018, ignoring last year because its far too early):

- Wins: Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Walsh
- Failures: Lucas, Watson, Bootsma, Menzel, Boekhurst, Cuningham
- Juries still out: McKay (likely win), O'Brien, Stocker, Petrevski-Seton (not sure), Dow (likely fail)

Besides Cripps and Walsh, the 2015 draft has been the saving grace.

Cuningham is far from a failure Sir (had a rough time of injuries, but certainly a best 22 player) and SPS has had a poor start to the season but still will be a quality player, and you forget Zac Fisher.

Look I agree we could and should have done better over the years with our drafting, think you are a bi t harsh though.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Well you can say that about every club over the years.

2014 was our most putrid draft and trade period I would say in the past ten years, but to be fair, that turned out to be one of the worst drafts of all time..
Petracca and DeGoey are the only A Graders from that crop so far, but I think Darcy Moore will get there..

Agree 2014 was dogshit relative to other drafts, but there seems to be a fair few late bloomers in there. Also you missed Harris Andrews who is clearly the best of this draft. Kane Lambert can probably be considered an A grader too, although both those guys were taken late, with the top end being pretty clearly weak.

It was a particularly good year for the Dogs. Caleb Daniel came from this crop, then we also had Bailey Dale, Toby McLean and Zaine Cordy who are all best 22.

Outside the Dogs, Lachie Weller, Angus Brayshaw, Jake Lever, Isaac Heeney, Touk Miller, Brayden Maynard, Connor Blakely, Ed Langdon, Dan Butler, Jeremy Finlayson, Jason Castagna, Mason Cox, Conor McKenna and Ivan Soldo all seem decent enough players, and a bunch of these could definitely reach A grade status

 

[Sentinel]

Cuningham is far from a failure Sir (had a rough time of injuries, but certainly a best 22 player) and SPS has had a poor start to the season but still will be a quality player, and you forget Zac Fisher.

Look I agree we could and should have done better over the years with our drafting, think you are a bi t harsh though.

Fisher was a 2nd round pick, these are 1st rounders only. Fair enough on Cuningham, and I think SPS is more likely to be a hit than a miss but at this stage I'd call it inconclusive due to his inconsistency.

 

[Mofra]

Actually, our top draft picks have not been the problem, it's our second/third/fourth and rookie picks that have been shithouse.. (Weitering has emerged as the premier young key defender in the game)

Odds-on to be AA this year. Probably ahead of Oliver and Hipwood on this year's form to be the best player in his draft.

 

[La Dispute]

Definitely but getting quality players in 2017 would be a huge help to the Blues current list and 2014 was under a different regime so not worth mentioning.

Most of the top end prospects from that draft were seen as slow burners with a few years to develop: Rayner needed to improve his tank, Brayshaw needed to get bigger, Dow needed to get stronger, LDU needed more polish etc, but most of these guys were underagers who were perceived as having a heap of upside.

The problem is though essentially as soon as they hit the AFL system their deficiencies became even more noticeable.

Dow is a massive concern because there is just so much wrong with him. He's still too thin, a bad kick, easily flustered, and just doesn't have too big an impact when he does get the ball. LOB has more of a chance of making it because he's got a ridiculous athletic profile plus a nice left boot. There was one piece of play in the reserves on the weekend where he effectively kicked the ball out from defence, followed up a few times and ending up kicking a goal. He just needs to get more involved, and make these big efforts the norm. Not making are going to be able to keep up with him.

I get the feeling Teague is really making these high draft picks earn a spot at the moment, which is great to see.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Odds-on to be AA this year. Probably ahead of Oliver and Hipwood on this year's form to be the best player in his draft.

Weitering is probably the most in-form KPD this year, but I really feel Hipwood is nowhere near that top end. He's shown promise in stints, but realistically has hardly outperformed Josh Schache so far in his career, and hasn't exactly blown anyone away to start this season. He's perhaps been a little overhyped and many of us have bought into it despite him not really having the runs on the board.

Only difference between the two so far is that Hipwood has managed a couple 6 goal games, so his absolute best appears better, but his averages are hardly much better, and last year he scored 1 or less goals in 14 of his 23 games. Nowhere near achieving consistency, and his averages are brought way up by having one or two huge games each year to go with an overall season of averageness to mediocrity.

 

[Ambrosia]

Most of the top end prospects from that draft were seen as slow burners with a few years to develop: Rayner needed to improve his tank, Brayshaw needed to get bigger, Dow needed to get stronger, LDU needed more polish etc, but most of these guys were underagers who were perceived as having a heap of upside.

The problem is though essentially as soon as they hit the AFL system their deficiencies became even more noticeable.

Dow is a massive concern because there is just so much wrong with him. He's still too thin, a bad kick, easily flustered, and just doesn't have too big an impact when he does get the ball. LOB has more of a chance of making it because he's got a ridiculous athletic profile plus a nice left boot. There was one piece of play in the reserves on the weekend where he effectively kicked the ball out from defence, followed up a few times and ending up kicking a goal. He just needs to get more involved, and make these big efforts the norm. Not making are going to be able to keep up with him.

I get the feeling Teague is really making these high draft picks earn a spot at the moment, which is great to see.

It can be very much luck of the draw on when you finish at the bottom and the strength of the draft. Essendon getting pick 5 and 6 in 2016 a weak midfield draft hurt us for example.

Although I personally think bottoming out isn’t really overly important to team building. If a side can bring in more good players via draft/trade/fa then they lose each year they have to improve.

 

[Ambrosia]

Odds-on to be AA this year. Probably ahead of Oliver and Hipwood on this year's form to be the best player in his draft.

Not sure how much credit teams should be getting for picking consensus number 1 picks first though.

Do agree Weitering looks the goods

 

[Mofra]

Not sure how much credit teams should be getting for picking consensus number 1 picks first though.

Do agree Weitering looks the goods

How many no 1 draft picks are the no 1 player in their year though?
Riewoldt yes, Goddard yes, some would say Hodge although Judd makes that hard, Cooney by default as it was a poor draft year. There aren't many.

 

[Ambrosia]

How many no 1 draft picks are the no 1 player in their year though?
Riewoldt yes, Goddard yes, some would say Hodge although Judd makes that hard, Cooney by default as it was a poor draft year. There aren't many.

I don’t have him near Oliver though. Personally think key position defenders are overrated when compared to forwards/mids.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

Ok - so when you said "Greatest first year of all time" what you meant was "Best of the last 19 years (can't say 20 as Rowell may yet prove better) and excluding mature agers (like Tim Kelly the year before, etc.)"

Well, that is much, much closer to the truth.

However, I still feel like I can highlight examples of others that were better.

Toby Greene is one example. Greene averaged more possessions, contested possessions, clearances, tackles and goals playing in a worse team than Walsh.

In fact, in Toby's last 9 games of his first year, he went - 31 disposals (and a goal), 34 disposals, 30 disposals (and a goal), 29 disposals, 35 disposals, 31 disposals, 38 disposals, 34 disposals and 38 disposals (and 2 goals).

In those last 9 games alone, Greene had 8 x 30+ disposal games and 3 x 35+ disposal games. In Walsh's entire first year, he had 4 x 30+ disposal games and 0 35+ disposals games. He has also is also still yet to kick 2 goals in a game.

We also know what toby turned into too. We are yet to see Walsh’s ceiling. I’m not putting anything on it. Just chose Judd/Buckley because they kept progressing from year 1.

 

[BoundbyKreuze]

Carlton have certainly had more misses than hits over the past 10 years of 1st round draft picks (2009-2018, ignoring last year because its far too early):

- Wins: Cripps, Weitering, Curnow, Walsh
- Failures: Lucas, Watson, Bootsma, Menzel, Boekhurst, Cuningham
- Juries still out: McKay (likely win), O'Brien, Stocker, Petrevski-Seton (not sure), Dow (likely fail)

Besides Cripps and Walsh, the 2015 draft has been the saving grace.

SPS - Win - didn’t you watch him rack up 30+ possessions in the win v dogs in 2019. We’ve since moved him to half back since Teague took over.
McKay - Win - led the competition for contested marks up until injury. Averaged still in the top 3 end of year I recall.
Cuningham - loss - No way. He will turn out to be a B grade player but it’s no bust as the last pick in the first round. Just his game v hawks in 2019 for evidence. As our forward synergy builds he will be very important.
You will get to see the new group in Philp honey and Kemp very soon which will put the ledger further in the win column.