Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft? - Part 2

[matey]

Just as enjoyable as watching your current captains on field actions.

Gotta laugh at Hawks fans blowing their load over Will Day. Whenever a player under 25 shows something they lose their sh*t. 90% of footy clubs have about 12-15 blokes as young and talented as he is. If he’s all you’ve got to take out of another huge loss than you’re in a world of trouble.

In only his second game, looks like a kid among a bunch of men at the highest level ..... shows a lot of poise, smarts and skill. Feed him 6 protein shakes a day over the next 12 months like Bryson DeChambeau he will be scary.

Your rubbish hope isn’t having any impact on my optimism. Pffft!

 

[matey]

That’s him. Did he stay home in Victoria with his trophy?

No need to have a tizzy fit because you couldn’t spell.

 

[RAPPA]

Clarko can hand the reins over to Bolton to bring up those green shoots

 

[Turnover]

No need to have a tizzy fit because you couldn’t spell.

Apologies about the spelling. Whatever happened to shoennmakers? Late bloomer?

 

[juss]

we’d need three four five or more coaches in succession if we go like Carlton and Melbourne in rebuild

let me get this right. People are recommending removing a coach and replacing him with a poorer version. And don’t listen to Kennett. He replaced himself and ended up returning

No one will sack him under contract, Im talking about an agreement between club and coach that after a very long time a new rejuvenated man might be needed for a new challenge.

15+ years in the same role in any industry is exceptionally rare. The mental commitment can wane over time, if Clarko feels he isn't fully in it or isn't the right man for the job, why wouldn't he position that to the club?

Do you really see him there for the 5 year rebuild and dour times to come? There's plenty of would be successful coaches in waiting. Every chance to unearth the next Clarkson or Hardwick or Simpson or Fagan, hell just promote one of his assistants its working for other clubs.

 

[Jobe Watson]

In my humble opinion, Hawthorn are shit.

 

[branedotorg]

No one will sack him under contract, Im talking about an agreement between club and coach that after a very long time a new rejuvenated man might be needed for a new challenge.

15+ years in the same role in any industry is exceptionally rare. The mental commitment can wane over time, if Clarko feels he isn't fully in it or isn't the right man for the job, why wouldn't he position that to the club?

Do you really see him there for the 5 year rebuild and dour times to come?

It's getting bit late period sheedy isn't it?

 

[matey]

Apologies about the spelling. Whatever happened to shoennmakers? Late bloomer?

Your spell check is bad maybe you are posting from Ittoqqortoormiit or somewhere but I will give you some slack.

But yeah Ryan happened well he won a premiership ..... must be hard to remember what that means for a Pharmaceutical organisation.

 

[fishardansin]

Losing to Melbourne is rock bottom. Good luck rebuilding the geriatric list.

 

[Pessimistic]

It's getting bit late period sheedy isn't it?

is there red wine on tap at waverley?

 

[WWSD]

In my humble opinion, Hawthorn are sh*t.

Esssendon are a stain on the competition.

 

[Turnover]

Your spell check is bad maybe you are posting from Ittoqqortoormiit or somewhere but I will give you some slack.

But yeah Ryan happened well he won a premiership ..... must be hard to remember what that means for a Pharmaceutical organisation.

Yeah my spellcheck is out. Too busy riting scripts. Tom Skully and jager omera are good clients of ours.

 

[WWSD]

No one will sack him under contract, Im talking about an agreement between club and coach that after a very long time a new rejuvenated man might be needed for a new challenge.

15+ years in the same role in any industry is exceptionally rare. The mental commitment can wane over time, if Clarko feels he isn't fully in it or isn't the right man for the job, why wouldn't he position that to the club?

Do you really see him there for the 5 year rebuild and dour times to come? There's plenty of would be successful coaches in waiting. Every chance to unearth the next Clarkson or Hardwick or Simpson or Fagan, hell just promote one of his assistants its working for other clubs.

It’s worked just fine for Greg Popovich. The proof is in the results.

 

[Blue1980]

Not a big fan of putting all faith into draft picks. I mean Geelongs highest pick in the past 10 years is pick 10 so it hardly the be all, but then you see the kings, Walsh, rowels dominating games so early it does make you want the top picks

Putting no faith in draft picks isn’t the answer either.

The issue hawthorn face is really they paid way too much for Wingard and JOM when instead of 2 ok players they could have had 4 relatively high draft picks instead plus kept Burton.

Odds are at last a couple of those higher picks would be more useful for the hawks going forward than Wingard and JOM and much less cap space.

 

[Blue1980]

Dogs in '16 and Tigers in '17 both had lists which were considered poor and not good enough to win a flag.

West Coast had a few but again did not have many.

Both dogs and tigers had a large portion of the team built via the draft, especially the dogs.

But the tigers best players in 2017 (Rance, Dusty, Cotchin, Riewoldt) all drafted within a 3 year period with top 20 picks.

No one has been able to build a flag doing it the way Hawthorn are attempting to now.

There are always different ways and means and exceptions of doing it and usually it takes a mix of trading and drafting to get the job done.

General pattern is to get a core together, then use trades & free agency more when you have a core of talent in a similar demographic who will be around for a while.

Sometimes you get lightning in a bottle where 2 generations of older and newer mesh together perfectly like the dogs 2015/16, but again dogs hit the draft hard under McCartney, they didn’t find bont, McRae, McLean, hunter, Libba etc at picks 50+ in the draft.

Caleb Daniel was a similar steal at great value later in the draft like Worpel and Sicily, but they should be complimenting good players you are drafting higher, not your only good young talent.

 

[Blue1980]

Surely it’s not as enjoyable as watching the Footscray’s vice captains off field actions recently! Or Footscray’s entire history as a footy club [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]!!!!!!!!!

Won a flag more recently than Hawthorn.

Just sayin

(And quite clearly my club too)

 

[matey]

Losing to Melbourne is rock bottom. Good luck rebuilding the geriatric list.

All of a sudden looking forward to the Dees v Bombers game

 

[Blue1980]

Building through the draft.
Clarko says NO

Not just the draft but not only through trading for banged up guys in their early mid 20s either.

 

[Blue1980]

Knowing Kennett and his history with Clarkson, Clarko's eventual exit from the club could actually be acrimonious/bitter.

Don't think Clarkson wants to be seen as deserting a sinking ship, so I think he will try keep coaching for at least 1 more season .

Correct, Clarko will never go on his own accord you’d imagine. Be like sheedy at essendon.

 

[Turnover]

Correct, Clarko will never go on his own accord you’d imagine. Be like sheedy at essendon.

Umm, clarko 4, sheedy 4, maybe Carlton should have persisted when they had a good coach.

 

[Blue1980]

Good luck replacing Hawkins, Selwood, Ablett and Taylor. Geelong are in the exact same position. Two can play this game.

Not exact, but could be heading to a similar place. Cats still have prime or close enough to prime Hawkins, Dangerfield and Selwood to call upon.

But eventually sides with young talent coming through will pass them unless they can bring in young guns themselves.

If it’s not my own team it will be others.

 

[Blue1980]

Whaaaaaa? but looking at yesterday, Houli was deputized brilliantly by Egg-molester, astbury by Balta, Caddy barely contributed, Edwards Cotchin out, JR and Dusty just cameos. Grimes probably the oldest bloke with a strong contribution to the game, and the Tiges looked OK I thought.

I've always said 2017 for the Tigers is as 2008 to the Hawks, thus the tide will start ebbing for Hardwick around 2024.

Predicting the future is fraught with danger, but I’d be guessing tigers should be in the mix until around 2022. Beyond that depends on how long the established superstars are going, current younger ones have come on and trades/drafting.

Even though Cotchin, Martin, Edwards and JR didn’t do much last night, not having them out there on a regular basis would hurt a lot. Also opposition have to put effort into stopping those guys which lets others off the chain.

Still it’s always encouraging when you aren’t carried by the stars.

 

[Blue1980]

I could find the same delusions from Carlton supporters about the Blues list over the past decade, every supporter looks at it's own list with rose coloured glasses. Give it a rest with this Hawk fans are delusional. All 18 clubs are the same.

There’s always outliers, though it seems a trend that a large percentage of Hawthorns fan base that a list with no young talent is no impediment to them because you know, Hawthorn.

Now my club have achieved nothing yet and may achieve nothing with our current build, but what we are doing with our list build at least gives us a chance.

You have no chance of long term success ignoring the top 40 largely for half a decade, with an on field side in decline.

The amount paid for JOM and Wingard, they needed to be as good as say Danger at geelong and Burgoyne has been at hawks to justify. Sadly, they are not.

 

[Blue1980]

back when whitnall was ‘the future of football’

None of these hawks are likely to kick 70 goals in a season and be AA.

Shame for lance he became fat and lazy.

 

[Blue1980]

Umm, clarko 4, sheedy 4, maybe Carlton should have persisted when they had a good coach.

Keep premiership coaches until the end of time? Parkin should still be coaching us to this day?

Point is even the super coaches over history can’t polish a turd. Barsssi at Melbourne in the 80s, Alan jeans Richmond in 92, Blight at st kilda, malthouse for Carlton etc.

Essendon supporters will tell you sheedy from around 2003 onwards was doing a similar variation of what Clarko is doing now.