Are too many players eligible for Academies ??

[juss]

Here are the numbers from the last trade period:

WA Players who moved to a WA club:
Kelly, Acres

WA Players who moved to a non WA club:
Ah Chee, Hill, Cameron, Ryder

VIC Players who moved back to Victoria:
Langdon, Betts, Patton, Howard, Keath, Cutler, Jones, Jenkins, Bonar

VIC Players who moved to a non VIC club:
Taylor

QLD Players who moved to a QLD club:
Smith

SA Players who moved to a non SA club:
Aish

SA = -1
QLD = +1
NSW = 0
WA = -2
VIC = +7

You know the problem with your model, 60% of the leagues teams are in VIC. Therefore in any given year, any player moving clubs for any reason, there is a higher likelihood they will be moving to a VIC team, purely because the majority of their options for a move if considering them going to any other club, it's a 60% chance to be a VIC club. That's more a league issue than a go home issue.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

This is based out of the leagues they played in.

2016 to 2019 Drafts:

Victoria 52 (65%)
WA 11 (13.75%)
SA 10 (12.5%)
NSW 4 (5%)
TAS 2 (2.5%)
QLD 1 (1.25%)

2016 to 2019 Top Five Drafts:
VIC 15 (75%)
SA 4 (20%)
WA 1 (5%)

Thank you for providing the numbers. When NSW or QLD consistently gets close to SA levels of draftees for several years, I'll accept that academies are unnecessary. Until then...

The Go Home 5 was probably more a reflection of where the club was at and the environment at that time. How many players would be wanting out of the Lions now? Probably not many, and they are even able to attract top talent now, because the club is in better order.

This is true, although we did lose players like Matthew Clarke back around the threepeat years. But all clubs suffer from the go home factor, it's the nature of a national competition. The idea is to minimise the risk of a club losing all their stars at once during down years. I've never once heard anything seriously linking Fyfe away from Fremantle for example, even though they've been poor for the past five seasons.

 

[Yojimbo]

How many Tasmanians have there been? Roll that number out for me.

23 x Main Listed Tasmanian Players
5 x Rookie Listed Tasmanian Players
Current lists only not historical at all.

 

[Taylor]

You know the problem with your model, 60% of the leagues teams are in VIC. Therefore in any given year, any player moving clubs for any reason, there is a higher likelihood they will be moving to a VIC team, purely because the majority of their options for a move if considering them going to any other club, it's a 60% chance to be a VIC club. That's more a league issue than a go home issue.

The purpose of those stats is to show that although a Victorian club doesn't have an advantage over a non Victorian club, the non Victorian club has a disadvantage for the exact reason you said.

Now, if I were to demonstrate that Vic players come home disproportionately more - that might show an advantage to Victorian teams, not just the disadvantage to non Victorian teams.

You can set the parameters.

 

[Pykie]

This is based out of the leagues they played in.

2016 to 2019 Drafts:

Victoria 52 (65%)
WA 11 (13.75%)
SA 10 (12.5%)
NSW 4 (5%)
TAS 2 (2.5%)
QLD 1 (1.25%)

2016 to 2019 Top Five Drafts:
VIC 15 (75%)
SA 4 (20%)
WA 1 (5%)

Greene
Blakey
Briggs
Perryman
Cumming
Macreadie
Mutch
Setterfield

as well as Brown and Fischer as zone selections.


That's 10 since 2016, not 4.

Which has them on even pegging with WA and SA.

 

[Taylor]

Greene
Blakey
Briggs
Perryman
Cumming
Macreadie
Mutch
Setterfield

as well as Brown and Fischer as zone selections.


That's 10 since 2016, not 4.

Which has them on even pegging with WA and SA.

We are counting top 20 picks that are drafted out of local competitions. So Setterfield, who played for Sandringham doesn't count just because he went to GWS. He wasn't going to be missed by the game. Not to mention that he was born on the literal border.

 

[Pykie]

We are counting top 20 picks that are drafted out of local competitions. So Setterfield, who played for Sandringham doesn't count just because he went to GWS. He wasn't going to be missed by the game. Not to mention that he was born on the literal border.

Setterfield grew up in Albury, boarded at Caulfield Grammar and chose to play the Dragons instead of the Bushrangers. Which any draftee can do.

Hawkins did it as well. He even opted to play for Vic Metro.

It doesn't make him Victorian, he was developed at Lavington as a junior, not at the Dragons.

He is lodged as a NSW draftee in the AFL system

Isn't that the point though? if you are trying to pass off Setterfield as a Victorian, because he developed his game here, yet he still gets preferential access from NSW academies. The whole system is ****ed.


So what competition do the Sydney Academies play in?

Last year they played in the Nab League

So we are classifying Tom Greene as a Victorian then?

 

[Taylor]

Setterfield grew up in Albury, boarded at Caulfield Grammar and chose to play the Dragons instead of the Bushrangers. Which any draftee can do.

Hawkins did it as well. He even opted to play for Vic Metro.

He is lodged as a NSW draftee in the AFL system

Isn't that the point though? if you are trying to pass off Setterfield as a Victorian, because he developed his game here, yet gets preferential access from NSW academies. The whole system is f’ed

I wasn't making any point.

The academy system is supposed to be increasing the talent coming out of the non footballing states and areas.

Setterfield is an example of how it's used in practice.

 

[Pykie]

I wasn't making any point.

The academy system is supposed to be increasing the talent coming out of the non footballing states and areas.

Setterfield is an example of how it's used in practice.

The NSW and QLD acadamies are playing in the NAB league though, they don't play in a competition in NSW and QLD. The Div 2 carnival isn't a league, it's a state championships.

By definition they are being drafted out of a Victorian League....

 

[worldlylizard19]

To answer the topic question, yes too many are eligible for academies. This is an AFL created problem, as rather than wind back the academy perks they gave other clubs a rort in the form of NGAs.
NGAs should either be scrapped fully or restrict them from the first round as those kids would be drafted anyway, leaving clubs to focus on the kids they should.
Discounts should go ( at least round 1), the idea of the academies is to broaden the player pool and make the northern clubs less susceptible to go home, not to get players for unders. If not having a major advantage means they will scrap investment in their academy then good luck to them in the future when they aren't winning games.

 

[Scotland]

You know the problem with your model, 60% of the leagues teams are in VIC. Therefore in any given year, any player moving clubs for any reason, there is a higher likelihood they will be moving to a VIC team, purely because the majority of their options for a move if considering them going to any other club, it's a 60% chance to be a VIC club. That's more a league issue than a go home issue.

True, the league is split 50/50 between Melbourne and non-Melbourne. But most of the players are also from Vic originally. On recent years about 2/3 of players have come from the NAB League. In a given year if 20 players move clubs then 10-15 of them are likely to be Victorian regardless where they are moving to or from.

Player movement is more nuanced than just home state vs other. In the last few years we have recruited Hickey, Vardy, Redden, Mitchell, Petrie (draft), Giles, Ellis (free agent) and none of those guys are from WA. Mrs Ellis is, but Xavier still played almost an entire career in Melbourne. We traded Morton (WA) to Richmond, Rosa (Vic) to GC, Staker (NSW) to Brisbane, Sinclair (Vic) to Sydney. In the AFL system most players who move clubs are role players looking for opportunity/security. You don't see wholesale changes and regular superstar moves like you do in other sports. 12 of 25 players from the last NBA All Star game have moved teams compared to 6 of 22 in the 2019 All Australian Side. It was 17 vs 5 the year before.

 

[Walshawk]

There should only be two academies - GWS and GC. These two clubs do not have access to father-sons selections and need to keep players in the development states.

 

[Yojimbo]

There should only be two academies - GWS and GC. These two clubs do not have access to father-sons selections and need to keep players in the development states.

Darcy Macpherson is a father son and at the Gold Coast.

 

[Chaisa]

Isn't that the point though? if you are trying to pass off Setterfield as a Victorian, because he developed his game here, yet he still gets preferential access from NSW academies. The whole system is f’ed.

FTR if Setterfield was coming through the system now he'd be available on the open draft as the border areas were stripped from GWS's academy. That was the biggest farce of the Northern Academies as that area is clearly AFL dominated and close enough to the Murray Bushrangers HQ that they wouldn't fall through the cracks.

See also: Brander, Jarrod.

 

[Walshawk]

Darcy Macpherson is a father son and at the Gold Coast.

No. He was taken in the rookie draft. Neither academy nor father son selection (WB passed).

 

[Yojimbo]

No. He was taken in the rookie draft. Neither academy nor father son selection (WB passed).

Academy Players as well as some Father Sons do end up at other clubs who hold no nomination rights to them, it does happen.

 

[Walshawk]

Academy Players as well as some Father Sons do end up at other clubs who hold no nomination rights to them, it does happen.

Of course, but rarely the good ones.

 

[Yojimbo]

Of course, but rarely the good ones.

Very true, will Irving Mosquito come back to bite you ?

 

[Pykie]

FTR if Setterfield was coming through the system now he'd be available on the open draft as the border areas were stripped from GWS's academy. That was the biggest farce of the Northern Academies as that area is clearly AFL dominated and close enough to the Murray Bushrangers HQ that they wouldn't fall through the cracks.

See also: Brander, Jarrod.

No different to the Riverina.

Also AFL dominated.

 

[SNORC]

No surprise Northern clubs with entrenched advantages don't want them scrapped.

It should be up to NSW AFL to run them, like AFL VIC runs the Nab League.

Awesome of the Swans to pluck Braeden Campbell from the wilderness like they have.....

I mean he only played all his junior football at the same club that produced Lenny Hayes, Mark McVeigh, Jarred, McVeigh, Kieran Jack and Branden Jack.

Pennant Hills has a better history of producing AFL players in the last 25 years than most Melbourne metro junior clubs.


Oh, god, but how would these kids ever manage to develop their skills and go to the next level without the sporadic training sessions the Swans put on, almost 50 minutes through Sydney Metro traffic from his junior football club? The junior clubs in Sydney and QLD don't exist if you listened to most on here.

These kids years culminate in a bastardisation of the Div 2 carnival, where kids have no other option BUT to play for these academies now. Or else they can't be sellected for the Allies. That sort of ultimatum in the best interests of grass roots football?

There is no NSW or QLD representative side anymore, you HAVE to join an acedemy to be picked for the Allies.

You can play for any football side in Victoria, WA, SA and get picked for the state representative side in those states. You have to play for Sydney's or GWS' academy to be elligible for selection for the Allies from metro Sydney. No vested interests there, the Swans just doing their upmost for the grass roots of AFL in NSW........

Slight correction, Campbell played junior football for Westbrook not Pennant Hills so aligned with Keiran Jack not Hayes and Mcveighs

 

[Cadillac]

The academies should 100% be scrapped.











After this season.

 

[markm106]

Good move by the AFL. It was a bit of a rort. But well done to clubs who were able to extract top end talent. Another stuff up by the AFL.
Next move is to take off the discount.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Yes.

Please remove James Borlase.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Thuggee_Cult]

I really don’t get why people are so wound up about Academies.

if a club wants a player they have to bid for them, it’s no different to a father son pick.

People who think that clubs get ‘exclusive’ access to all of their Academy players clearly have no idea how the system actually works, and are confusing this system with the old zoning arrangement - which it isn’t even close to.

 

[Yoda_]

How many of these academy kids have become out and out guns?

I remember the hype on Mills and Henney and as good as they are, don’t think they’ve become the player most expected them to be..

Have any Brisbane academy kids become stars?


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