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Ad76

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Aug 23, 2005
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I've spent hours playing both FF and TAR, and liked some things about both.
Having said that, neither really gave me what I was looking for in a footy game. What I'm looking for is a game with depth, and realism.
Picture Championship Manager - but for footy.

I've sent suggestions to both FF and TAR, and hoped for a new, complete version but never got anywhere. (and in one case, like lots of you didnt even get a response).

So, being a software engineer, I've decided to create it myself. It's a big job, because it's going to be done right. Work started a month ago, and my goal is to release at the start of the 08 Season. I'm not going to go into more detail at this stage, but what I'm looking to do here is generate some discussion on what features people are looking for.

So, what's missing from FF and TAR?

Defininites in version 1:

Stats - Lots and lots of them, kept over the course of the game.
Play or Automate all (most?) game features.
Accurate player ratings/stat generation.
Limited visibility on oposition players attributes.
Accurate play-by-play in text telling you exactly what's going on.
Other Leagues (SANFL, WAFL etc)
Detailed financial model for AFL

Realistic trading/recruitment.
Player Discipline problems (off field).
Go-Home factor.
Rookie & Veterans lists.
Father-Son drafting. (you'll know when they're born and get reports on their junior progress)
Offer player contracts at any point in the season.
National, Pre-Season and rookie Drafts.

Really like - may be in this version, may be in a future Version:

The ability to create your own leagues, teams, players, etc (and have an automated random creation so you can choose). Different numbers of teams per league. Other leagues.

Historical leagues - AFL stats are available for the last 10 or so years, and i'm sure with some effort by the community we could go back as far as 100 years at the top levels (even if only teams and/or the top players).

Maybe:


The ability to edit 'everything' in game (make a player a bit better/worse, etc) - *removing high-score, etc from edited games*

A 'career' option (start in local leagues, work your way up based on getting good results at lower level).

Visual representation of the field during match-play. (Think Coaches Box). See the players and football move around the field, matching up to

Multiplayer. I have a whole lot of ideas here, and once the first version is done it's my next project. At this stage it's going to be online.

Newspaper - not sure, maybe :)

Unlikely (never say never):


Lastly, let me point out before you answer, that we're not talking about EA sports type stuff here. You're not going to be controlling players, or be impressed by eye candy (although we'll be lifting the bar from FF and TAR).
We're talking the same style of game - just more complete.

Thanks in advance.
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Customisation. Statistics. Simplicity. Complexity.

The ability to create your own leagues, teams, players, etc (and have an automated random creation so you can choose). Different numbers of teams per league. Other leagues.

The ability to edit 'everything' in game (make a player a bit better/worse, etc) - *removing high-score, etc from edited games*

A database including as many statistics as possible (like champion data, etc) that accumulates over the course of history.

The ability to automate any/all features of the game (ie finances, recruitment, training, selection, match-day coaching, etc).

A 'career' option (start in local leagues, work your way up based on getting good results at lower level).

There's some broad brushstrokes of what i'd be looking for in a game. Some more specific ones:

1. Historical leagues - AFL stats are available for the last 10 or so years, and i'm sure with some effort by the community we could go back as far as 100 years at the top levels (even if only teams and/or the top players).

2. Realistic trading/recruitment - I shouldn't be able to turn the Hawks from near-spooners (12th-15th) to premiers (duh, 1st) in one year, EVERY time.

3. Accurate player ratings/stat generation. A bit of a circle reference thing going on here. Ratings are generated (with a small randomness) from real-life stats (randomised 'best guess' where stats unavailable), then performances based on ratings - those performances then resulting in an adjustment to the rating for the following season.

4. "Fog of War" - While everybody knows the Buckleys, Hirds, Crawfords, etc who knows how (or spends time) trying to stop the rookie HBF? As players get older, your knowledge of them (ratings) gets better (more complete, more accurate). The same goes for players on your own team (though obviously you 'learn' them much faster).

5. Visual representation of the field during match-play. (Think Coaches Box). See the players and football move around the field, matching up to:

6. Accurate (and varied) play-by-play in text telling you exactly what's going on.

I think that's plenty to get some discussion started...
 
The big winner in these games is stats, we love statistics. IMO TAR has better gameplay than FF however, FF has and keeps better stats. If you are able to have and keep stats on everything you are already onto a winner.
I.E. Yearly stats, individual stats (even after retirement) for career, season etc. Team records, league records etc etc.

Also I don't like how TAR does not have a club B&F, that's annoying. Also TAR has no rookie list.

More in depth game play is a given, but not just on match day. Maybe things like a player has discipline problems so you have to mentor them more or they have an addiction to grog or something. Players who don't get along, homesick...every day things.

A great add on would be multi player seasons, so you can play against others in a league. And everything in one affects the other and head to head gameplay.

I like how TAR has the newspaper idea, a more in depth aspect would be great with featured articles etc.
 

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Dude- It's going to be a big job but I hope you succeed:thumbsu:. Football management game. That's what a lot of people are interested in. Get some ideas from Football manager 2007 (soccer management game). They have tonnes of cool stuff. Some really important things are stats. Stats are very important and they should have career stats and season stats if you can. Just get the basics right first, then once you have a solid platform, work off that. Also I reckon a more detailed draft and trade week. Training- Another thing. Have a look at Football manager 2007- they have an alright training thing going. Eg, goalkicking, defending, aerobic, strength. It would be good if you can set how much training there is - the more training = more injuries, less training = less injuries. Just some things... Good luck mate.:thumbsu:
 
Personally I think you need to implement local footy leagues as well. There is no hassle with the drafts. It would be just like a soccer transfer system and if you have the money you can go out and buy some players.

I know this only works for local footy but it would be a great option besides the AFL! WHat ever you do mate good luck!
 
Ad76 said:
I've spent hours playing both FF and TAR, and liked some things about both.
Having said that, neither really gave me what I was looking for in a footy game. What I'm looking for is a game with depth, and realism.
Picture Championship Manager - but for footy.

I've sent suggestions to both FF and TAR, and hoped for a new, complete version but never got anywhere. (and in one case, like lots of you didnt even get a response).

So, being a software engineer, I've decided to create it myself. It's a big job, because it's going to be done right. Work started a month ago, and my goal is to release at the start of the 08 Season. I'm not going to go into more detail at this stage, but what I'm looking to do here is generate some discussion on what features people are looking for.

So, what's missing from FF and TAR?

Lastly, let me point out before you answer, that we're not talking about EA sports type stuff here. You're not going to be controlling players, or be impressed by eye candy (although we'll be lifting the bar from FF and TAR).
We're talking the same style of game - just more complete.

Thanks in advance.
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Click to expand...
More advanced attributes. Look at FM/CM's attributes:



It will be a lot harder to engineer but attributes of a similar depth to this really would help. Inside ball getting, outside ball getting, handballing, non-preferred foot, defensive awareness, forward awareness, toughness, aggressiveness etc. would be good.
 
Thanks to all for your feedback.

I'm going to respond to as many points as time permits. I'll also keep a running list of features on my initial post.

Some great thoughts here Simon, and you'll be happy to hear that a lot of this is planned.

Defininites in version 1:

Simon_Nesbit said:
A database including as many statistics as possible (like champion data, etc) that accumulates over the course of history.

The ability to automate any/all features of the game (ie finances, recruitment, training, selection, match-day coaching, etc).

Realistic trading/recruitment - I shouldn't be able to turn the Hawks from near-spooners (12th-15th) to premiers (duh, 1st) in one year, EVERY time.

Accurate player ratings/stat generation. A bit of a circle reference thing going on here. Ratings are generated (with a small randomness) from real-life stats (randomised 'best guess' where stats unavailable), then performances based on ratings - those performances then resulting in an adjustment to the rating for the following season.

Fog of War" - While everybody knows the Buckleys, Hirds, Crawfords, etc who knows how (or spends time) trying to stop the rookie HBF? As players get older, your knowledge of them (ratings) gets better (more complete, more accurate). The same goes for players on your own team (though obviously you 'learn' them much faster).

Accurate (and varied) play-by-play in text telling you exactly what's going on.
Click to expand...

All of these concepts will be in there - the implementation may vary a little.

I think that drafting/trading is one of the most important features, and plenty of emphasis will be put on it.

Really like - may be in this version, may be in a future Version:

Simon_Nesbit said:
The ability to create your own leagues, teams, players, etc (and have an automated random creation so you can choose). Different numbers of teams per league. Other leagues.

Historical leagues - AFL stats are available for the last 10 or so years, and i'm sure with some effort by the community we could go back as far as 100 years at the top levels (even if only teams and/or the top players).
Click to expand...

For further down the track, I have an online version in mind, which is where I planned to have the option to create your own leagues/teams etc. Even give players the chance to play their champion teams against each other (My Unbeatable Adelaide Premiers from 2015, against your Hawthorne 2010 premiership team, etc).

Historical stats will be there in come capacity. I dont want to turn this into one of those threads ;) but I'm really not sure at what point I would go back to. I'm leaning towards the point at which VFL became AFL (1990??). Full historical stats will be in there from some point in time, put it that way :)


Maybe:

Simon_Nesbit said:
The ability to edit 'everything' in game (make a player a bit better/worse, etc) - *removing high-score, etc from edited games*

A 'career' option (start in local leagues, work your way up based on getting good results at lower level).

Visual representation of the field during match-play. (Think Coaches Box). See the players and football move around the field, matching up to
Click to expand...

I'm still thinking about these for a few reasons. I'll come back to them. :)
 
sum0005 said:
1. Other Leagues, VFL, SANFL all those types of Leagues with all players, would b awsome, you can choose which league to run for the season.
Click to expand...

Other leagues will be there. At this point though, they'll be simulated - non playable.

They'll serve a couple of functions.
Players in your squad will actually play each week (unless injured/reported/other), and you'll be able to see their results. Yes, stats will also be kept, and viewable in the future.

You'll also be able to keep an eye on potential draftees - more on that later.
 
I Rock said:
The big winner in these games is stats, we love statistics. IMO TAR has better gameplay than FF however, FF has and keeps better stats. If you are able to have and keep stats on everything you are already onto a winner.
I.E. Yearly stats, individual stats (even after retirement) for career, season etc. Team records, league records etc etc.

Also I don't like how TAR does not have a club B&F, that's annoying. Also TAR has no rookie list.

More in depth game play is a given, but not just on match day. Maybe things like a player has discipline problems so you have to mentor them more or they have an addiction to grog or something. Players who don't get along, homesick...every day things.

A great add on would be multi player seasons, so you can play against others in a league. And everything in one affects the other and head to head gameplay.

I like how TAR has the newspaper idea, a more in depth aspect would be great with featured articles etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks mate - some good points here.

Player Discipline problems will be in.
Go-Home factor is in.
Agree 100% on the stats - there'll be plenty.
Rookie list is in, as is Veterans list.

Multiplayer. I have a whole lot of ideas here, and once the first version is done it's my next project. At this stage it's going to be online.

Newspaper - not sure, maybe :)
 

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caveman said:
Personally I think you need to implement local footy leagues as well. There is no hassle with the drafts. It would be just like a soccer transfer system and if you have the money you can go out and buy some players.

I know this only works for local footy but it would be a great option besides the AFL! WHat ever you do mate good luck!
Click to expand...

Local leagues will definitely be in there.

My plan is to run a pretty detailed financial model for the AFL, but at this point I'm not going to implement it for the local leagues. I'd consider making them playabe down the track though.
 
jabso said:
More advanced attributes. Look at FM/CM's attributes:



It will be a lot harder to engineer but attributes of a similar depth to this really would help. Inside ball getting, outside ball getting, handballing, non-preferred foot, defensive awareness, forward awareness, toughness, aggressiveness etc. would be good.
Click to expand...

I agree that more depth is needed, but to be honest I think the attribute depth in FM/CM is an overkill.
I'm aiming somewhere in between TAR and FM/CM.
 
crowsarethebest said:
Dude- It's going to be a big job but I hope you succeed:thumbsu:. Football management game. That's what a lot of people are interested in. Get some ideas from Football manager 2007 (soccer management game). They have tonnes of cool stuff. Some really important things are stats. Stats are very important and they should have career stats and season stats if you can. Just get the basics right first, then once you have a solid platform, work off that. Also I reckon a more detailed draft and trade week. Training- Another thing. Have a look at Football manager 2007- they have an alright training thing going. Eg, goalkicking, defending, aerobic, strength. It would be good if you can set how much training there is - the more training = more injuries, less training = less injuries. Just some things... Good luck mate.:thumbsu:
Click to expand...

You know I played Championship Manager for a while - even though I hate soccer. I was thinking of calling this Premiership Coach (Premiership manager would be a little too close)
 
What might be cool is to be able to look at talent from a very young age and scout them through out the years, maybe start from 14 years old or something and go until they get drafted so you can have a really good idea of the players you want to draft, and feel that you are closer to them so they wont feel like leaving your team any time soon.

Or just have the ability to scout all or some potential draftees for each year for the entire season, not just be able to look at stats about a player and pick from that, maybe you could have several detailed responses from scouts about players and who their AFL likeness would be, possible weaknesses and strengths in their game as well, and where they would rate them to be in the draft ie. Pick 1, Pick 45 etc.
 
HBK619 said:
What might be cool is to be able to look at talent from a very young age and scout them through out the years, maybe start from 14 years old or something and go until they get drafted so you can have a really good idea of the players you want to draft, and feel that you are closer to them so they wont feel like leaving your team any time soon.

Or just have the ability to scout all or some potential draftees for each year for the entire season, not just be able to look at stats about a player and pick from that, maybe you could have several detailed responses from scouts about players and who their AFL likeness would be, possible weaknesses and strengths in their game as well, and where they would rate them to be in the draft ie. Pick 1, Pick 45 etc.
Click to expand...

Yep, this will definitely be in.

The drafting/scouting model that I have in mind will cover all of that. The father/son eligible players you'll be able to watch all the way through their junior years. Draft chances you'll see from a bit later - not exactly sure what age yet.
 
Possibly incorporate a mentoring system (assign a young player with an older player). This could result in similiar attributes and game style, while also building a connection within the club. For the pre-season make it possible to schedule your own practice games/intraclubs prior to ther NAB cup (or when you're eliminated). Could you also have rising star nominations each round. Players (like FM) should be able to have different positions and their ability in each noted, possibly with some positions whilst being the same are different eg. Running half-back flanker vs Defensive Half-Back Flanker. Could you also be able to talk to players, like tell them where they need to improve for a game or what they're doing right. eg. You might tell Farren Ray to improve his kicking on the run for more game time, thus meaning he may work harder to improve that attribute and it will go up quicker (possibly at the expense of something else).
 

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Have different attributes for injuries to players, for example a player with more determination will come back from a knee reco where as a player with a lazy attitude towards training may not.

Have players come to you with concerns and questions. More in depth Tribunal, the club can pay for better lawyers etc. Media exposure and how it affects the club both positive and negative.

Maybe you could play as a specialist coach or assitiant before or instead as head coach.
 

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