Not sure why the Saints do a side deal that advantages the Crows.
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Free Agency Brad Crouch [joins St Kilda as a RFA for pick 23]
- Thread starter The Nostradamus
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- Nov 11, 2013
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I think you'd find most StKilda supporters wanted him at a fair wage as a free agent.
If that's not possible then we pass. Really don't care if we miss.
No sour grapes here. We move on.
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salary isnt the only issue Plus its relative to other players salary. One probably just snuck into the lower band and the other just missed out. We can complain the rules of rule based approaches are non sensical. But we cant complain that rules based approaches are unevenly applied.
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
Am I missing something or did the Saints spend the last two years trading out just about every decent pick they had aside from the Max King pick for the likes of Hill, Hannebery, Howard, Ryder, Jones, Butler?
Do the Saints want to win a flag in the next few years or not? If they do, Crouch >>> 17. If they don't, then what the **** have they been doing the last couple of years?
Do the Saints want to win a flag in the next few years or not? If they do, Crouch >>> 17. If they don't, then what the **** have they been doing the last couple of years?
Being "in the window" (or trying to be) doesn't mean you have to trade overs for every single experienced player in the comp.....
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
You're severely overrating draft picks if you think that pick 17 for Brad Crouch is overs. Once you get to end of first round picks like 17, it's hit or miss. Crouch is only 26 and would be a guaranteed walk up start midfielder at every club in the league. I'd happily pay 17 to have him at my club.
You're very much missing something. Last year was a very targeted approach to push a rebuild that had been going for the better part of 10 years up a gear. If we trade our 1st round pick this year then we cant next year and there is a certain twin brother plying his trade in Queensland which we will be getting and need to be able to pull the trigger on. Crouch's appeal is that he would improve us and could come via fee agency. He is not the single missing piece in the rebuild that we are desperate for.
- Jul 13, 2015
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Another contract, yes. So at that point anything can happen.
But the longer contract ties him to the club for more money and over the life of the contract his worth is considered far more.
- Apr 23, 2016
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Stay with me here because I know it's complex; The compensation is based mostly upon the amount of money the player is paid, per year. Not the total value of the contract.
You can go and offer someone a $3m contract and not qualify for Band 1 if it's over 10 years. If that same contract is over 3 years. Band 1.
WeedsMullet84
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- Oct 31, 2018
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Why bother going after a RFA then?
Every RFA that's gone to another club this season has had 'overs' paid. It's the general consensus that 'overs' are required not just to potentially sweeten a compensation pick for the club they're departing, but also deter that club from matching.
If Crows match the bid because it's close enough to the contract we put in front of him at the start of the year then the whole process was kind of pointless.
Saints fans can flap their gums all they like, but if the net result is NO player, then it's not really a win for you guys at all, regardless of everyone's desire to save face. If you really think it's a win because you're keeping a matching club 'honest' then we might as well go around to every clubs board when we bid on FS/NGA players come Draft night and claim them as wins...
What i think is actually going on is that there are significant incentive based $$ attached to the offer, and it is these figures that have 'muddied the waters' in the $$ figures that have come out in the media. It is these incentives that also DON'T get included in the AFL's compensation calculations.
Keep in mind that the Crows have to match any individual incentive based elements, just not 'team incentives'.
For example, if Brad hits all his individual incentives then his contract may work out to be $750-$800k per year over the life of the contract, but taking those incentives out of the compensation calculation it may only be $600k per year 'guaranteed money', which is what the compensation formula works off.
Now you could argue that matching those triggers into Brads contract with the Crows would be beneficial for us too, but the cost might be too high for us as a rebuilding side compared to Saints and where their list management is at.
If this is how Saints have approached it then in this scenario is sounds like a fairly shrewd move
SPECIFIC SECTION ON MATCHING RFA
(d) The Restricted Free Agent’s Current Club has the right to match the proposed contract, arrangement, agreement or understanding in respect of the Restricted Free Agent on identical terms to the Offer in relation to each of:
(i) contract length;
(ii) base payments;
(iii) total match payment rates;
(iv) total Additional Services agreement payments; and
(v) total performance incentives based on AFL awards or honours, Club best and fairest finish and matches played, but excluding Finals. For the avoidance of doubt, incentive payments for team performance are not required to be matched by the Current Club.
Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
Okay cool. Enjoy being a mediocre midtable club neither good enough to challenge for a premiership now or young enough to build a premiership contender later then.
Imagine giving up 10, a second rounder and Acres for Brad Hill and then baulking at giving up 17 for Crouch. Madness.
- Apr 19, 2015
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I didn’t realise you had signed him already.
I presume you have at least one top 10 pick to offer up next year for him?
Yep.
In fact once you get near the pinnacle cap space becomes more important to your ability to top up than draft picks.
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I think pretty much sums the actual situation.
No club in their right mind would pay the Saints Pick 2 for Seb Ross and most at St Kilda would be pretty comfortable if we got Pick 23 in a trade yet here we are arguing about Brad Crouch.
www.footywire.com
No club in their right mind would pay the Saints Pick 2 for Seb Ross and most at St Kilda would be pretty comfortable if we got Pick 23 in a trade yet here we are arguing about Brad Crouch.
Brad Crouch and Sebastian Ross AFL Stats Comparison
Brad Crouch and Sebastian Ross AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com
- Aug 29, 2014
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From here it seems there are broadly three paths for AFC.
1) match and shoot for 17, who knows arguments on both sides, could be a better outcome for them but introduces risk
2) Match expecting brad to re-sign, no idea if this is the desired outcome during rebuild
3) accept the band three with the aim of doing a second bit of business to make it up.
feels like 3 is the best on balance outcome for both sides, and assuming they are being represented by professionals (a reasonable assumption) feels like how it will land.
pick 23 is a free pick from the AFL and add extra pieces for the clubs to play with.
1) match and shoot for 17, who knows arguments on both sides, could be a better outcome for them but introduces risk
2) Match expecting brad to re-sign, no idea if this is the desired outcome during rebuild
3) accept the band three with the aim of doing a second bit of business to make it up.
feels like 3 is the best on balance outcome for both sides, and assuming they are being represented by professionals (a reasonable assumption) feels like how it will land.
pick 23 is a free pick from the AFL and add extra pieces for the clubs to play with.
You seem to have missed my point. We are not baulking at 17 for Crouch, we are baulking at being unable to trade for Ben King to pair him with his brother in a years time. We also have a fantastic core of young talent already at the club in King, Clarke, Coffield, Battle, Gresham, Marshall, Paton, Steele. They will all be in their prime together. King could be the best player in the comp in 3 years, now imagine having two of him.
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Schulzenfest
TheBrownDog
Yeah I also remember when your mob was convinced Ben King would move to the Saints after his first contract. At this stage there's no reason to believe that his second contract will be any different.
Bird in the hand versus two in the bush and all that.
Yeah those in charge clearly don't know what they're doing. Just took us from 14th to 5th, but you obviously know better.
There is nothing more certain then him ending up at St Kilda. The Dad even called Simon Lethlean and apologised for them having to sign the new contract because the money was too good to say no. Their entire family are Saints nuffies and the twin brothers are as close as possible. Unbelievably stupid that the Suns had the chance to draft both of them and didn't. Anyways back to Crouch...
- Jul 13, 2015
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Stay with me. I know this.
I am saying it is stupid and it should be based on the total value of the contract.
2 x $800k should not give Band 1 if 4 x $600 gives Band 2.
The longer contract is 50% more.
The amount of crowing I have heard about this phone call, it all may end up being true, but you would want to hope he doesn't sign another extension, otherwise this will quickly turn into David Swallow NM theories from all those years ago.
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