Autopsy Round 6, 2021: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda

[Dard Ball Get]

I wonder whether this is yet another sh*t record we've broken this year?

I think Ratts said afterwards that he's ok with this stat, if Port wants to do that then they're playing ugly footy. Something like that.

Yeah that was super cringeworthy

 

[plugger66]

Wines played on, concussion has nothing to do with it unless you subscribe to gods graces.

Anywho; we had exact same score as the Eagles, they had the worse loss, so we did something right.

Who said he had concussion. I was explaining why they have the rule of accidental head knocks.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Was illuminating watching both coaches press conferences.

When asked about Port’s crazy high uncontested possession numbers, Ratts muttered a rhetorical question about him not being sure it’s a good look for our game or something along those lines to have those high numbers of uncontested possessions. It’s clearly not something philosophically he likes as a coach and it showed in the press conference and shows in the way we are playing under him.

Sadly, with the new man-on-the-mark rule and less rotations, uncontested possessions is something we (and all clubs) simply have to do better as it conserves energy and tires out the opposition. Problem is, to execute a possession game effectively requires skill, training, decision-making and composure to pull off: you need to train for this constantly, over a long time to get results. It also requires patience, composure and intelligence on positioning to execute on match day. Our guys, even if they try and hold possession either stuff up a kick, lose patience and bomb it long, or stop leading, again leading to the long bomb.

Hinkley was different, praising the composure of the team, acknowledging he knew we’d come out with pressure but confident that his players would have the composure and skill to kick it around, keep possession, render our pressure ineffective, and then cash in when we inevitably lose energy and our pressure drops.

It was “how to beat St Kilda 101”. If it wasn’t already clear that, competition-wide, there is a very clear blueprint on how to beat us, then listening to press conferences like this dispels that.

Matching the above with Ratts admitting the new rules have hurt us, you’d hope that the likes of Rath are feeling the heat from our President. We seem to be the only team playing the game the same way we were last year.

Something like this (adapting tactics to newly implemented AFL rules) is surely right bang in the middle of Rath’s job description. On any measure he has failed dismally so far (I still have faith trust it can be turned around.... but we need a complete re-think on how we play from here on in).

 

[snails13]

It’s a bit of a sad time hoping the mid season draft could help. I suppose you just need 1% hope.

Yes ii is sad,as they are kids that weren't good enough to get selected in 2020 National Draft,but that 1% of hope,may just find us a decent kid.
The Vic boys didn't get to play a lot of footy last year,so I live in hope,that we find that diamond in the rough.

 

[plugger66]

Was illuminating watching both coaches press conferences.

When asked about Port’s crazy high uncontested possession numbers, Ratts muttered a rhetorical question about him not being sure it’s a good look for our game or something along those lines to have those high numbers of uncontested possessions. It’s clearly not something philosophically he likes as a coach and it showed in the press conference and shows in the way we are playing under him.

Sadly, with the new man-on-the-mark rule and less rotations, uncontested possessions is something we (and all clubs) simply have to do better as it conserves energy and tires out the opposition. Problem is, to execute a possession game effectively requires skill, training, decision-making and composure to pull off: you need to train for this constantly, over a long time to get results. It also requires patience, composure and intelligence on positioning to execute on match day. Our guys, even if they try and hold possession either stuff up a kick, lose patience and bomb it long, or stop leading, again leading to the long bomb.

Hinkley was different, praising the composure of the team, acknowledging he knew we’d come out with pressure but confident that his players would have the composure and skill to kick it around, keep possession, render our pressure ineffective, and then cash in when we inevitably lose energy and our pressure drops.

It was “how to beat St Kilda 101”. If it wasn’t already clear that, competition-wide, there is a very clear blueprint on how to beat us, then listening to press conferences like this dispels that.

Matching the above with Ratts admitting the new rules have hurt us, you’d hope that the likes of Rath are feeling the heat from our President. We seem to be the only team playing the game the same way we were last year.

Something like this (adapting tactics to newly implemented AFL rules) is surely right bang in the middle of Rath’s job description. On any measure he has failed dismally so far (I still have faith trust it can be turned around.... but we need a complete re-think on how we play from here on in).

Did he will say the new rules have effected us? Seems from the quotes on twitter he is saying less interchange isnt helping but no mention of the stand rule or the kick oit from full back. What is effecting us is our lack of effort in previous games. Not so sure in this game but uncontested possessions does point to lack of confidence to run and support and more importantly share the ball. The first quarter we constantly hit guys on the lead. 4 times inside the 50 is a hell of a lot in a quarter. They resulted in nothing. Easy to say but it is in the game thread I knew the game was iver at quarter time. If you are behind by 16 points with all those chances it was never going to be pretty after that especially coming off such bad losses previously. Their confidence must be as low as it can get. That stops players sharing the ball and leads to bombing as you have zero options.

 

[Munga]

King is overrated IMO. Ordinary one-on-one contested mark, has no concept of leading..the bread and butter of good full forwards. Needs more time at the VFL and learn to own the ball in contests and work on his forward craft.

In all fairness to King it sounds like he's being coached to stand there.

He's building his strength one on one. But he does easily look sluggish and tired.

 

[Diehard Saint]

He is ...works with him for hours during the week.

Even got him doing the Matthew Lloyd drills going 15 metres out directly in front , going to 20 metres ..
and so ..on...in match simulation its all high ball stuff with line coaches with 3 smalls it ain’t working
we are still doing it.......

We haven’t adapted the stand on the mark , still kicking over the man on the mark either ...disappointing.
Im not talking about games this is at training again disappointing.

Please dont misunderstand me I want Ratten as coach.

Have stated many times at training this year , we were having significantly lighter sessions to
other track watchers.We had significantly more hours practicing transition...last year.
There may been valid reasons for this , with players having soft tissue concerns Over summer.

The most intense session was the Thursday before Eagles game for the year.

Picking up little comments in recent post matches Ratts is conceding , we appear to have miscalculated
the longer game, the rule changes .

With reduced list size , we took a risk didnt pay off hence the additions of Wood , Hunter & McKernan .

Well, we all know the old adage of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result - or apparently the coaching panel doesn’t.

Why isn’t Roughy teaching King about leading patterns? Ben seems to be able to do it.

Why is 1) Howard still taking the kick outs when we need him on the wing to take the get out mark?
2) Not running his full measure to gain ground?
and 3) last night, kicking it right up the centre of the ground when no one was there???

It’s been mentioned for a while that our training sessions are not intense enogh? Why not?

We’re 6 games in, maybe we miscalculated the longer game - although I’m not sure how considering it’s just gone back to what its always been - time to recalculate then.

 

[StCicatriz]

Was illuminating watching both coaches press conferences.

When asked about Port’s crazy high uncontested possession numbers, Ratts muttered a rhetorical question about him not being sure it’s a good look for our game or something along those lines to have those high numbers of uncontested possessions. It’s clearly not something philosophically he likes as a coach and it showed in the press conference and shows in the way we are playing under him.

Sadly, with the new man-on-the-mark rule and less rotations, uncontested possessions is something we (and all clubs) simply have to do better as it conserves energy and tires out the opposition. Problem is, to execute a possession game effectively requires skill, training, decision-making and composure to pull off: you need to train for this constantly, over a long time to get results. It also requires patience, composure and intelligence on positioning to execute on match day. Our guys, even if they try and hold possession either stuff up a kick, lose patience and bomb it long, or stop leading, again leading to the long bomb.

Hinkley was different, praising the composure of the team, acknowledging he knew we’d come out with pressure but confident that his players would have the composure and skill to kick it around, keep possession, render our pressure ineffective, and then cash in when we inevitably lose energy and our pressure drops.

It was “how to beat St Kilda 101”. If it wasn’t already clear that, competition-wide, there is a very clear blueprint on how to beat us, then listening to press conferences like this dispels that.

Matching the above with Ratts admitting the new rules have hurt us, you’d hope that the likes of Rath are feeling the heat from our President. We seem to be the only team playing the game the same way we were last year.

Something like this (adapting tactics to newly implemented AFL rules) is surely right bang in the middle of Rath’s job description. On any measure he has failed dismally so far (I still have faith trust it can be turned around.... but we need a complete re-think on how we play from here on in).

please tell me this isn't true

 

[plugger66]

Well, we all know the old adage of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result - or apparently the coaching panel doesn’t.

Why isn’t Roughy teaching King about leading patterns? Ben seems to be able to do it.

Why is 1) Howard still taking the kick outs when we need him on the wing to take the get out mark?
2) Not running his full measure to gain ground?
and 3) last night, kicking it right up the centre of the ground when no one was there???

It’s been mentioned for a while that our training sessions are not intense enogh? Why not?

We’re 6 games in, maybe we miscalculated the longer game - although I’m not sure how considering it’s just gone back to what its always been - time to recalculate then.

Howard shouldn’t be taking the kick ins but he certainly shouldn’t be on the wing to contest the kick ins. If it’s turned over the bloke kicking out is stuffed. Howard should be inside the 50 when kicking in.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I think everyone on here would agree that we currently have serious structural issues

We are missing another tall marking forward to take the load off King ....... Ryder or Marshall will help but list wise we are missing another tall strong marking forward and our small forwards except for Higgins cant take a mark ..... we currently have 4 smalls playing forward - Billings, Butler Higgins & Lonie ..... one has to go

We are severely missing Paton / Webster as that small lockdown defender who can run off their player and deliver consistently (Webster to a lesser extent) .... would love to see both in the same team though

We are missing another tall intercept backman - Carlisle played this role last year but hasn't been seen down back at all this year ..... I am not sure Battle is the answer and personally I would prefer him forward (many disagree) ...... getting Frawley back could release Howard as that floating intercept tall defender or at least put Carlisle permanently back at least for structural purposes (with Ryder back maybe that happens at least until Frawley is ready to go) .... either way we need Clavarino to come on or long term we are in a hole here

Long needs to find some form and discipline ...... at Sandy

Sinclair ain't a backman's a-hole but was very good once he went into the centre square towards the end of the game ....... leave him in there as he adds zip

Our outside mid run has been non existent ..... Jones has been injured or is not match fit (he needs to play though) ...... Hill possibly injured and way out of form ..... time to bring Billings back to play more between the arcs (he can work this area with his good mate Sinclair) and maybe time to give Connolly or Byrnes a taste with Hill now likely out for a few weeks

Crouch to play as a more defensive mid role and Steele as a more attacking mid role ...... though these two are interchangeable

Bytel needs to play ....... full stop!!

Coaches need to instruct the players to move the ball on at all costs and take risks hopefully this will stimulate and vitalise the playing group to get on their bikes and get mobile cause at the moment they are like fat planks in a still water eddy

Stop the bomb to King 20 out and get him moving and leading ....... the forward line is stagnant and way too predictable ........ it might be better to go the chaos route with manic erratic leading patterns to create mad space for our small forwards and attacking mids to get busy in ....... chaos often breeds life and that's exactly what this playing group currently needs

 

[Sully111]

Yet up until round 5 most want him hff and he was doing well there. I’d play him on the wing also but I was wrong for the first 4 games.

I though last year we looked good with Hill and Billings as our wingers.

Like Gringo, I don't really trust billings so much with the set shot. Id be happy with him delivering it to a leading forward though, if we can sort out our forward structure.

 

[Saint Shags]

What are theses rumours? Something going on at the club.... etc

What rumours?

 

[Munga]

Anyone verify this?

This would make the club look very poor. And a few people might need to lighten up on Hill. What a mess, an absolute mess.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Howard shouldn’t be taking the kick ins but he certainly shouldn’t be on the wing to contest the kick ins. If it’s turned over the bloke kicking out is stuffed. Howard should be inside the 50 when kicking in.

I will bow to your superior knowledge of the game. ( superior to mine, definitely)

 

[Saint Shags]

This would make the club look very poor. And a few people might need to lighten up on Hill. What a mess, an absolute mess.

Mowman said Ross Lyon had said a couple of weeks back he was having issue. So perhaps there is some truth to it. Wonder if the injury he picked up against the Giants was bigger than we thought?

 

[FQFjt]

please tell me this isn't true

Yeh, it was a little pathetic to be honest. Sore loser vibes.

The coaching staff need to have a good hard look at themselves, and stop looking for scapegoats.

 

[FQFjt]

I reckon people still look at Billings on potential. What he currently produces is just about the max of what we can expect from him in my opinion. He's 25 years old, by all reports a diligent trainer, mature guy. I can't see him going up a level.

 

[The_Steadier]

Was illuminating watching both coaches press conferences.

When asked about Port’s crazy high uncontested possession numbers, Ratts muttered a rhetorical question about him not being sure it’s a good look for our game or something along those lines to have those high numbers of uncontested possessions. It’s clearly not something philosophically he likes as a coach and it showed in the press conference and shows in the way we are playing under him.

Sadly, with the new man-on-the-mark rule and less rotations, uncontested possessions is something we (and all clubs) simply have to do better as it conserves energy and tires out the opposition. Problem is, to execute a possession game effectively requires skill, training, decision-making and composure to pull off: you need to train for this constantly, over a long time to get results. It also requires patience, composure and intelligence on positioning to execute on match day. Our guys, even if they try and hold possession either stuff up a kick, lose patience and bomb it long, or stop leading, again leading to the long bomb.

Hinkley was different, praising the composure of the team, acknowledging he knew we’d come out with pressure but confident that his players would have the composure and skill to kick it around, keep possession, render our pressure ineffective, and then cash in when we inevitably lose energy and our pressure drops.

It was “how to beat St Kilda 101”. If it wasn’t already clear that, competition-wide, there is a very clear blueprint on how to beat us, then listening to press conferences like this dispels that.

Matching the above with Ratts admitting the new rules have hurt us, you’d hope that the likes of Rath are feeling the heat from our President. We seem to be the only team playing the game the same way we were last year.

Something like this (adapting tactics to newly implemented AFL rules) is surely right bang in the middle of Rath’s job description. On any measure he has failed dismally so far (I still have faith trust it can be turned around.... but we need a complete re-think on how we play from here on in).

Exactly.

Ratts is looking like a lifelong horse and cart bloke in 1901 bemoaning these new fangled 'cars' being bad for transportation.

Like it or not, it is irrefutable that footy has become netball-esque now that teams can kick and run around blokes standing the mark.

Stoppages and tackles are at decade+ low levels.

Kick-mark-kick-mark methodical passing up the field using low trajectory kicks to teammates has ALWAYS been the safest way to kick a goal in football.

That safest avenue to goal has been made significantly easier to execute in 2021 now you don't need to kick the ball up and over the man on the mark.

Just like in basketball and netball, it is now relatively easy AND safe (provided you have decent passing skills) to now do as port did and flick the ball around the perimeter until you spot an opening i50 to then take a shot.

We have zero future until we start playing keepings off too.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So he is better than sandy players. May as well say eggplant is better than Brussel sprouts. Cheap depth option. The thing you keep complaining about.

As you keep saying, replacing a c/d grade player with another c/d grade player is not going to exactly add anything to the list.

 

[kick it lace out]

Someone said they were training the cluster fu** forward set up. It's coaching.

Can confirm. Popped into training last Thursday, and they were training the system that we are currently playing, which basically is Dougs plays on from FB, kicks it long down the line to a contest, mids win ball, hand off to outside runner who kicks it deep to Max. Works well at training against the c-graders we call ‘depth’ but falls apart in games. The players are doing exactly what the coaches are asking of them. It’s our system that is failing, which has led to a total erosion of trust and confidence in the way we play.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Well that’s the rules and with concussion the way it is it’s hard to complain

Wines played on though - so no concussion?

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Did he will say the new rules have effected us? Seems from the quotes on twitter he is saying less interchange isnt helping but no mention of the stand rule or the kick oit from full back. What is effecting us is our lack of effort in previous games. Not so sure in this game but uncontested possessions does point to lack of confidence to run and support and more importantly share the ball. The first quarter we constantly hit guys on the lead. 4 times inside the 50 is a hell of a lot in a quarter. They resulted in nothing. Easy to say but it is in the game thread I knew the game was iver at quarter time. If you are behind by 16 points with all those chances it was never going to be pretty after that especially coming off such bad losses previously. Their confidence must be as low as it can get. That stops players sharing the ball and leads to bombing as you have zero options.

Yeah, can’t remember if he singles out which exact rule that has hurt us which is fair enough as you don’t want to give the media too much, but did talk about how the game has changed and we have to adapt (so reading between the lines, the new rules with rotations and man on mark have hurt us).

Can’t remember exactly though as on my phone at work so no access to the presser... he might have gone into more detail on this.

Thought the same thing as you at quarter time. Missing goals plus chasing their arses around while they are chipping it around means we drop our heads, it all becomes too hard for us and let the flood gates open: it’s a matter of when not if.

 

[plugger66]

I will bow to your superior knowledge of the game. ( superior to mine, definitely)

don’t worry plenty would disagree with me but that’s my thinking.

 

[plugger66]

Wines played on though - so no concussion?

No certainly no concussion but you can go with what may happen as per long last year and someone earlier this year. Forgot the player.

 

[Diehard Saint]

No certainly no concussion but you can go with what may happen as per long last year and someone earlier this year. Forgot the player.

Yep, forgot about Long. Shame for DMac, as I think he’s not been bad this season.