List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Karma Train]

Who was the brain donor that thought drafting Sam Philp over Devon Robertson was a good idea ??

Sam Philp will be a good player, just unfortunate that injuries have put a stop to his career at the moment. Philp was very highly rated by a lot of clubs at the draft and a I know a few clubs that rated him higher than Robertson. It may have been a surprise in the media but it definitely wasn't amongst clubs. Who knows you may end up being correct but I think he will be a very good player in time.

 

[Ash24]

If you can Walsh is a freak and nothing to with development, then it follows that you can that 'player x' is a dud nothing to with development.

Same logic.

Not true. Whether you're taken at pick 1 like Walsh or pick 3 like Dow, both were seen as very highly skilled prospects. Same with Setters at pick 7 and Samo at pick 6.

It's not like we took a punt on a kid projected to go in the 2nd rounder with an early first, and that's why his development sucks. Dow, Setters, LOB, Samo and Kennedy were all clearly a class above before being drafted, they were never 'duds'.

Everything leads to our poor development and/or coaching of these players.

 

[Madblue]

Seriously the excuses by the same few on here regarding why LOB, SPS, Dow etc are not getting a game is laughable. The club aren't developing them, they are being playing out of position etc are just poor excuses. Maybe these players should look at their deficiencies and what the club are telling them to work on and work harder no matter if it's in the VFL or a position they don't like and force the club to pick them in the seniors. If they don't then its their own fault not the clubs that they stay in the VFL or end up getting moved on at seasons end.

 

[katmanblue]

Not true. Whether you're taken at pick 1 like Walsh or pick 3 like Dow, both were seen as very highly skilled prospects. Same with Setters at pick 7 and Samo at pick 6.

It's not like we took a punt on a kid projected to go in the 2nd rounder with an early first, and that's why his development sucks. Dow, Setters, LOB, Samo and Kennedy were all clearly a class above before being drafted, they were never 'duds'.

Everything leads to our poor development and/or coaching of these players.

Being highly skilled doesn't make difference if you are pea hearted or mentally weak.

My point was that laying the blame for failures at our development is only fair if you also give credit for successes.

Also, Setters was pick 5.

 

[bmaurizio]

Seems as a highly skilled choice or player, just doesn’t cut it anymore never has , one either has the elite skill set to become a very good AFL footballer or not. It’s multi disciplinary and should be quantifiable by an expert, mature & experienced recruiting department.
Due diligence over a period of time surely should reduce the element of error.
I can’t accept the incompetence it’s hurting us badly.

 

[Rosscoe]

Seriously the excuses by the same few on here regarding why LOB, SPS, Dow etc are not getting a game is laughable. The club aren't developing them, they are being playing out of position etc are just poor excuses. Maybe these players should look at their deficiencies and what the club are telling them to work on and work harder no matter if it's in the VFL or a position they don't like and force the club to pick them in the seniors. If they don't then its their own fault not the clubs that they stay in the VFL or end up getting moved on at seasons end.

They are worth far more than what we will get for them if they continue to play seconds. There are plenty of senior players that will be worth less years end that need to work on aspects of their game. Some sort of rotation seems reasonable and responsible.

 

[Ash24]

Being highly skilled doesn't make difference if you are pea hearted or mentally weak.

So you think that Dow, LOB, Samo, Setters and Kennedy are all pea hearted and mentally weak?

Seriously the excuses by the same few on here regarding why LOB, SPS, Dow etc are not getting a game is laughable. The club aren't developing them, they are being playing out of position etc are just poor excuses. Maybe these players should look at their deficiencies and what the club are telling them to work on and work harder no matter if it's in the VFL or a position they don't like and force the club to pick them in the seniors. If they don't then its their own fault not the clubs that they stay in the VFL or end up getting moved on at seasons end.

This is like when I was in high school and getting bad grades. "Work harder" is what my mum would say to me, but it's such an empty statement. We have no idea what they are putting in, so it's unfair to make these calls.

And it's much more difficult to 'work harder' if there is no one giving clear instructions into what to do. That falls back on coaching, and therefore leads to poor development.

 

[macky99]

People have a different view to yourself, give Dow & SPS half dozen games in the midfield/wing and see the outcome.

Other players eg Casboult and Gibbons are gifted games for below average performance, different rules for different players.

 

[SammaGilberto]

My point is clear.

It's pathetic you're bagging a 19 year old Carlton player who is injured because another 19 year old kid who has played 9 games of senior footy is playing well elsewhere.

Must be a slow Friday night.

JFC... like arguing with a brick wall with that bloke, imagine if we had of pissed off Weitering when he was 19 and struggling?

 

[Jeremias]

Most important part of a club are your list, then coaches..
Our current list team is..

Head of List Management - Nick Austin
National Recruiting Manager - Paul Brodie
Player Acquisition and Total Player Payment Manager - Michael Agresta

Think we understaff this area.. Over the years we have picked so many wrong picks, have overpaid in trades and have overpaid in salary..

If I was Head of Football, I think it's time we invest in this important part of the club...
Think it's time to break the norm and lead the way to recruiting...

Head of List Management - Nick Austin
National Recruiting Manager - Paul Brodie & staff if needed
Player Acquisition Draft and Trade - Sports Phycologist (During interview process, deep dive into their traits, to pick best recruit)
Trade and Player Contracts negotiator - SOS
Total Player Payment Manager - Michael Agresta

• Then we get the best development coaches, to develop the correct talent from the start..
• Then we pick the right Head Coach and assistant coaches to complement the list..

Before anyone whinges about the soft cap, look here Club Staff,
we have managers of managers, sure we can trim something back to grow one of the most important area of the club..

A few points:

1) SOS returning? Yeah, good luck with that.

2) You don't think we have a sports psychologist at the club? We do, as would every club.

 

[Jeremias]

2. Yes realise we have a sports psychologist on the books, that is used for current players.. I would also have one as part of the recruitment team also..
Possibly used as multi roles, but primary focus on picking mentally strong talent.

The psychologist would already have involvement with all players - current and prospective.

 

[Jeremias]

possibly not sure.

Of course they would...

Every prospective addition to the list would undergo extensive medical testing - including psychological.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Of course they would...

Every prospective addition to the list would undergo extensive medical testing - including psychological.

Well if they are involved, maybe we need a new one...
Because we have picked some mentally fragile players in this rebuild..

 

[Jeremias]

Well if they are involved, maybe we need a new one...
Because we have picked some mentally fragile players in this rebuild..

OK, but that wasn't your point.

Hey, when all else fails let's have another crack at the club!

 

[Jeremias]

Hey, stop being a lala Jeremias..
The having a crack at the club, is such lame throw away statement and over used here, by the same people..

Read my original post, didn't have a go at the club at all..

Said list is the most important part of the club and this is a way for the club to get even better at drafting and trading for the right players..
Then you attack the post, thinking you know all.. I'd think you'd know Jack sh*t same as me, if they use Sports Phycologist in the recruiting process...

You're reaching to try and find anything wrong with the club, to the point where you're literally making up issues where there may not be one.

"We have picked some mentally fragile players in this rebuild" is clearly having a crack at the club, when you wouldn't have the faintest idea about this.

I didn't say you had a go at the club in your initial post, did I?

As for whether there is a sports psychologist involved in the process, you're right I have no proof, but I would have thought it common knowledge. You think medical screening and testing is purely of a physical nature?

 

[The Grover]

Time for Agresta and Brodie to go.

Recruited too many unskilled, low IQ footballers.

 

[Stamos]

Time for Agresta and Brodie to go.

Recruited too many unskilled, low IQ footballers.

It's highly improbable that it's all due to the players. We make so many dumb mistakes, the game plan and coaching should minimise them.

 

[TENACIOUS]

You're reaching to try and find anything wrong with the club, to the point where you're literally making up issues where there may not be one.

"We have picked some mentally fragile players in this rebuild" is clearly having a crack at the club, when you wouldn't have the faintest idea about this.

I didn't say you had a go at the club in your initial post, did I?

As for whether there is a sports psychologist involved in the process, you're right I have no proof, but I would have thought it common knowledge. You think medical screening and testing is purely of a physical nature?

I'm not reaching to find anything wrong with the club...
I love the club and have for over 30 years, I want it to be the best for my kids and all our supporters..

I posted a thought only, on trying to take some risks out of drafting and trading..
I'm all for defending the club, but not from Facts...

If you took your blue coloured glasses on you'd see we have drafted and traded for players that are mentally fragile and don't know how to fu@#ing win........
We have created an environment where losing is ok, it's just another game in the process..

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Caleb Poulter did better than alright for the scum/filth (whichever's which) this round. Is there anyone here who still thinks our priorities aren't in a bit of a mess?

 

[TENACIOUS]

We're all looking for this extra A grade midfielder...
Put Fisher in there ffs, Smart, fast, good side steps, good decision maker good by foot and can push forward and kick goals.

Might be small, might not have the tank, at least give him a go...

 

[DangerousD]

Caleb Poulter did better than alright for * this round. Is there anyone here who still thinks our priorities aren't in a bit of a mess?

What are you talking about? Poultry plays for the Pies not *, he was also drafted before our first pick last year.

 

[Mentallo]

Here is something that has probably been pointed out already, in the last 3 National Drafts we have recruited 9 players only 4 of them have played senior footy, 1 out of the last 5 (Sam Philip 2 games) The 2017 Draft we got Dow, LOB, TDK and Schumacher, one of them has been delisted two of the other three will be lucky to be playing AFL in 2022.
Apart from Walsh our recruiting has been deplorable recently either that or our development is not up to speed (clearly)
I really hope Brodie Kemp makes it I really do.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

What are you talking about? Poultry plays for the Pies not *, he was also drafted before our first pick last year.

I thought * meant either. I usually can't be bothered typing Scum or Filth. Yes, our first pick we traded away for a mediocre halfback flanker, but we've had this talk on another thread already. We were interested in Poulter, apparently, but our mediocre trade targets left us bereft of a pick in the top thirty. We could have even drafted Poulter and another player had we traded that initial first-round pick down. How could the club have thought that all we needed to put us in finals or even premiership contention was an OK at best HBF? We have our priorities wrong and think we can build a premiership-worthy list in piecemeal fashion.

 

[RAPPA]

We're all looking for this extra A grade midfielder...
Put Fisher in there ffs, Smart, fast, good side steps, good decision maker good by foot and can push forward and kick goals.

Might be small, might not have the tank, at least give him a go...

An elite A grade midfield will not paper over the cracks of poor decision-making, errant inside 50 entries, and basic skill errors that happen everywhere else on the ground. It smacks of the old Carlton messiah rhetoric and playing like a team of individuals.

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Here is something that has probably been pointed out already, in the last 3 National Drafts we have recruited 9 players only 4 of them have played senior footy, 1 out of the last 5 (Sam Philip 2 games) The 2017 Draft we got Dow, LOB, TDK and Schumacher, one of them has been delisted two of the other three will be lucky to be playing AFL in 2022.
Apart from Walsh our recruiting has been deplorable recently either that or our development is not up to speed (clearly)
I really hope Brodie Kemp makes it I really do.

Both; I'm not even sure if it's a talent identification issue, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. What it's more likely to be is we are being influenced by pressure to perform and don't know which needs to address first or whether it's needs versus talent, those kinds of things. We also don't seem to have a grip on how drafts will pan out and which picks to keep hold of or when and how to trade up or down the order. SOS seemed good at that last point but was wasteful with draft picks, IMO.