When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[bigm386]

I know people like to blame Barker but he is hardly the problem. Had many arguments with Teague over game plan and direction. The disconnection between the coaches and lack of trust in what Teague is doing is the bigger issue

I can't believe that a guy who has been at a failing club for over a decade is a good person to have at the club.

 

[LordLucifer]

Barker has jumped before he was pushed.

 

[FRUMPY]

Cripps hasn’t impressed me for a few years now... plays like a 34 year old.
Body seems almost done... has poor body language and is very uninspiring...
Needs to pull his finger out IMO.
Might be better for all party’s if he was traded.
It would take some balls by Carlton though.

Yep, last 18 months has been really disappointing - i think his body is pretty stuffed and also mentally shot from carrying this club for so long. It was basically him being best on or we were flogged.

 

[Soapy V]

I can't believe that a guy who has been at a failing club for over a decade is a good person to have at the club.

he’s not. Just not the biggest issue

 

[Juddernaut08]

Barker has jumped before he was pushed.

Wowzers!

Carlton board facing fresh challenge

Review of Carlton’s football department not enough, says challenger as experienced assistant coach John Barker resigns.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Rich01]

Still bloody shocked that conversations between an incoming president and players are in the media.

Sorry, but... that's absolutely appalling from the president of a club. Not a good start for him.

Yep.
It’s as if the results of the upcoming ‘independent’ review were leaked to the media already.

How do they solve the two biggest problems- communicating the game plan to the players and removing the power of some on match committee?

Get rid of a couple of assistants, bring a more experienced hand in to guide the senior coach would be my view on how Sayers is going to play this one out.

 

[LordLucifer]

Still bloody shocked that conversations between an incoming president and players are in the media.

Sorry, but... that's absolutely appalling from the president of a club. Not a good start for him.

Would you prefer he sit and wait till next year to start making changes ??

He's on the board and the incoming prez, clearly he isn't going to sit idle and 'let' things slide further.

I have no issue with it, can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

 

[Soapy V]

Massive period for the club. We have got so much right off field. 7-8 years ago we were a basket case. No money and no direction

Off field we are financial, great membership and sponsorship and currently rebuilding Princes Park etc. Will be home of Women's football and possibly some AFL games.

On field the core of our list is good. We just need the right people in charge. Development needs bolstering and continued improvement. Appointing a young coach after Bolton was a mistake. Not supporting him was a mistake. We need a total clear out and to follow the right process to get the right person. It's a cultural change as much as anything. Do that and we can bounce back quickly as mots things are in place. Get it wrong and it could set us back another 20 years.

IMO Teague has burnt too many bridges to continue . Half arsed measures won't cut it

 

[Noidnadroj]

Carlton’s problems are summed up with 2 x things we’ve probably all seen by now. Stocker kicks his first career goal and 2 x players get to him. At every other club it’s an 18-man celebration for every player’s first goal.

Newman knocks himself out and not a single player gets to him at any stage.

This is evidence of the lack of team first attitude that has completely engulfed that club from the top down. It’s every man for themselves and it’s crystal clear in the way they play, the way they defend, the way they support each other etc…

In today’s system based football nothing else can be fixed until the attitude is resolved. This is where Cripps, Docherty and the on-field leaders have to set the example and accept nothing less than 100% buy-in.


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[LFTWNG11]

No chance Carlton will let their captain and face of the club walk without a fight.

Simply won’t happen.

"Captain and face of the club"... who cares? Take band 1 compo and move on. Bulldogs did ok with moving on Griffin a few years back. The game has gone past Cripps.

 

[nineteen eighty]

He was a problem, though.
Purely the length of his tenure is unhealthy.
But he took over stoppages last year, and they've been abysmal. Other line coaches can put some of the blame on the game plan, but surely stoppage set-ups is on the Stoppages Coach?

What is the bigger issue of stoppages vs defensive running (once the opposition have the ball)?

Now from what I have seen, the team's lack of pressure and defensive running is damning. Terrible. Everyone involved should hand their heads in shame. Whose head does that sit on? Is that one of the assistant coaches (Amos?, Stanton? Barker?) or does it go all the way up to Teague as the senior coach?

I know that the senior coach gets paid the big bucks and ultimately is responsible for all matters coaching related.

There is a fundamental problem off field though that is manifesting itself on the field.

 

[Soapy V]

What is the bigger issue of stoppages vs defensive running (once the opposition have the ball)?

Now from what I have seen, the team's lack of pressure and defensive running is damning. Terrible. Everyone involved should hand their heads in shame. Whose head does that sit on? Is that one of the assistant coaches (Amos?, Stanton? Barker?) or does it go all the way up to Teague as the senior coach?

I know that the senior coach gets paid the big bucks and ultimately is responsible for all matters coaching related.

There is a fundamental problem off field though that is manifesting itself on the field.

Teague

 

[btdg]

Carlton’s problems are summed up with 2 x things we’ve probably all seen by now. Stocker kicks his first career goal and 2 x players get to him. At every other club it’s an 18-man celebration for every player’s first goal.

Newman knocks himself out and not a single player gets to him at any stage.

This is evidence of the lack of team first attitude that has completely engulfed that club from the top down. It’s every man for themselves and it’s crystal clear in the way they play, the way they defend, the way they support each other etc…

In today’s system based football nothing else can be fixed until the attitude is resolved. This is where Cripps, Docherty and the on-field leaders have to set the example and accept nothing less than 100% buy-in.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

While you are correct in spirit, Stocker played 5 games more than 2 years ago... I'm not sure anyone knew it was his first goal, and they've probably got more on their plates. Free pass on that one.

Newman... yep - but you could see that in every aspect of the game on Sunday.

That's common to ALL teams when things aren't going well, but gee it was pronounced on the weekend. Players look inward rather than outward. You get guys running to positions defensively rather than defending the game, etc.

I'm not sure what 'accepting nothing less than 100% buy-in' actually means in practice, but its somethign the playing group have to acknowledge and move on from. Sometimes a rest clears the air (ie: bye week, refresh, refocus). Sometimes sacking the coach does the same job.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Would you prefer he sit and wait till next year to start making changes ??

He's on the board and the incoming prez, clearly he isn't going to sit idle and 'let' things slide further.

I have no issue with it, can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

What?

I was talking about conversations between him and players being leaked to the media. That's shocking and hardly the way to build trust.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

"Captain and face of the club"... who cares? Take band 1 compo and move on. Bulldogs did ok with moving on Griffin a few years back. The game has gone past Cripps.

You think we’d let him go that easily.

Taking band one would be the reasonable move, those at the top won’t swallow their pride and let it happen though.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Teague

I agree. He has a background as an assistant forwards coach at several clubs. Quite possibly he just doesn't have the experience in implementing an all ground game plan and his assistants may simply not be up to scratch in their respective lines. It just seems broken in more than one place.

 

[Stamos]

What is the bigger issue of stoppages vs defensive running (once the opposition have the ball)?

Now from what I have seen, the team's lack of pressure and defensive running is damning. Terrible. Everyone involved should hand their heads in shame. Whose head does that sit on? Is that one of the assistant coaches (Amos?, Stanton? Barker?) or does it go all the way up to Teague as the senior coach?

I know that the senior coach gets paid the big bucks and ultimately is responsible for all matters coaching related.

There is a fundamental problem off field though that is manifesting itself on the field.

Oh, they are both massive issues.

It starts at the contest though. We win a lot of clearances, but they are of poor quality (hack kicks forward, handballs to players under pressure). When we lose the stoppage though, our opposition receive the ball in the clear, can move it without pressure, put it inside 50 with ease.

Our defensive running is really poor, but it's so much harder when you're not starting from a good position.
So our work rate is inefficient, and our structure allows the easy ball use against us. And constantly picking players before they are ready fitness wise (Levi, Gov, Williams, Martin etc). certainly doesn't help.

Teague definitely has to take much of the blame, but the assistants as well.

 

[LordLucifer]

Massive period for the club. We have got so much right off field. 7-8 years ago we were a basket case. No money and no direction

Off field we are financial, great membership and sponsorship and currently rebuilding Princes Park etc. Will be home of Women's football and possibly some AFL games.

On field the core of our list is good. We just need the right people in charge. Development needs bolstering and continued improvement. Appointing a young coach after Bolton was a mistake. Not supporting him was a mistake. We need a total clear out and to follow the right process to get the right person. It's a cultural change as much as anything. Do that and we can bounce back quickly as mots things are in place. Get it wrong and it could set us back another 20 years.

IMO Teague has burnt too many bridges to continue . Half arsed measures won't cut it

The coaching department just has to be turned over, it is not working and has not for ages. Thank god Barker did the honourable thing and fell on his sword now, makes it one less to deal with down the track. I'd like to see another one or two do the same thing, Teague will be there till the end which will come soon enough.

As for replacements, well the club will have to follow the ethos they trotted out last time but shat the bed when it came the actual decision - "we don't want a coach with trainer wheels".

Bringing in someone with previous experience is a non-negotiable this time around plus they must be a no-nonsense/hard-arse type as well. The players have been allowed to loll about in their own comfort zone with no penalties or impending urgency which breeds favouritism and a lack of a "team first" mentality.

Whilst I am clearly speculating, the candidates to replace Teague as senior coach will be Ross Lyon, Michael Voss, Don Pyke and possibly Chris Scott (on the basis that he feels the Cats are about to fall out of the finals window and need a rebuild).

Some of the assistant coaches should come from guys like Adrian Hickmott (WCE) & Justin Lepptisch (ex-Bris & Rich) as they not only have good strategy but they were uncompromising players so naturally they will not accept mediocrity from the players they work with.

The player development is another area in desperate need of attention, I don't see Luke Power as a problem and he should survive. However, guys like Mark Williams (currently at Melb) & Joel Corey (currently at Freo) should be made overtures to join the revamped football department.

 

[LordLucifer]

What?

I was talking about conversations between him and players being leaked to the media. That's shocking and hardly the way to build trust.

The greater majority of Carlton members & fans are sick & tired of inaction around the club which has lead to the current situation, I applaud the fact that this Sayers guys isn't afraid to roll the sleeves up and get stuck in, that's what good leaders do.

I couldn't give a s**t that it was leaked to the media, a lot of these players won't be at the club in the very near future, they have all had it too good for too long.

They were 'trusted' to train hard and deliver results but they have renegged on that part so stiff bikkies methinks !!

 

[10571z]

.

Here we go again. How many times have Carlton fans lived this.

Seems a bit sketchy players speaking to an incoming president... like really at this time it’s none of his business

Fantastic to see Leppitsch back up my point here. Why the * are players speaking to an incoming president bad mouthing the coach ect

 

[Soapy V]

Oh, they are both massive issues.

It starts at the contest though. We win a lot of clearances, but they are of poor quality (hack kicks forward, handballs to players under pressure). When we lose the stoppage though, our opposition receive the ball in the clear, can move it without pressure, put it inside 50 with ease.

Our defensive running is really poor, but it's so much harder when you're not starting from a good position.
So our work rate is inefficient, and our structure allows the easy ball use against us. And constantly picking players before they are ready fitness wise (Levi, Gov, Williams, Martin etc). certainly doesn't help.

Teague definitely has to take much of the blame, but the assistants as well.

Normally I would agree but in this situation it's very much on the Senior Coach

 

[LordLucifer]

.

Fantastic to see Leppitsch back up my point here. Why the fu** are players speaking to an incoming president

Why ???

Which part of 'gathering info" do you not understand ??

If you want to repair the situation then you need to have a clear picture of what is going on right now, then you can pull the right levers.

 

[WillHayward]

"Captain and face of the club"... who cares? Take band 1 compo and move on. Bulldogs did ok with moving on Griffin a few years back. The game has gone past Cripps.

Yeah but look at that physique!!
Commentators all get turned on gushing over it.

 

[10571z]

Why ???

Which part of 'gathering info" do you not understand ??

If you want to repair the situation then you need to have a clear picture of what is going on right now, then you can pull the right levers.

I’ll agree with Leppitsch someone part of the best culture in the AFL.

Having informal meetings with an incoming president would just create further issues.

Anyway Teague is gone.

Should throw everything at Ross Lyon, absolute football whiz. I’m sure they’ll stuff it up and go the other way.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I'm little surprised with your call here Soapy V but if that is the case, then he must go. I'd be more than happy with all the assistance except for Power & O'Keefe and maybe Amos gone.