List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

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stavro#4 · Jun 10, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
You still have to pay them out & that goes under the TPP.

Ooc end of this season

puppy_dog7 · Jun 10, 2021

Can we use the Billings compo on Rozee?! exactly the type we need

saint66au · Jun 10, 2021

sunny3193 said:
So as a result of that article about Port’s reset in 2018 (not having a top 20 pick in any of the prior five years), and the stavro#4 argument re getting another early draft pick, I actually had a look at what Port did in 2018.

Essentially (as things get complicated):
They traded Polec and Pittard for the pick (eventually #6), they used for Rozee.
They already had the pick (eventually #12), they used for Butters.
They traded Wingard for the pick (eventually #18), they used for Duursma.

That’s some impressive trading.
We might argue about the merits of each trade, but they did move out three of their best 22, and got a couple of really good kids in return.
Either Duursma or Butters would walk into our best 22.
As would Rozee, but he was drafted.
Plus they addressed their list issues.

Then consider what they did in 2019 (with us) ultimately turning #10 and Howard/Ryder into #12 and #18, becoming Bergman and Georgiades.
Georgiades would walk into our team too.
Not sure about Bergman.

I think it‘s entirely plausible that we could match that.
It might not be a North trading to bolster their list, or a Hawthorn trading to extend their window, but there’ll be someone interested in a deal.
It just depends on the offer and for whom.

Or, as Stavro has suggested, we wait and see what free agency offers.

If Band #1 compo does become available it might be as low as #6.
Would we use that, or leverage it like Port into a #10 and #16 for example?

I guess what I am saying is that based on what Port achieved in 2018, there is no reason why we cannot adopt a similar strategy and get a similar outcome.

Ultimately the success of doing so will depend on three factors:

1. The quality and depth of quality in this year’s draft.
2. The List Manager’s ability to negotiate a strong trade result.
3. And the Recruiting Team’s ability to identify and select quality players with the hand they are dealt.

I reckon this year will be a great test to see how well our trade and recruiting team actually perform.

No excuses.

We had Picks 3 18 19 and got Billings, Acres and Dunstan

Mowman · Jun 10, 2021

saint66au said:
We had Picks 3 18 19 and got Billings, Acres and Dunstan

Gee Thanks for that
I feel rather ill now

70s sainter · Jun 10, 2021

Just goes to show even 18,19 is no guarantee. Obviously would ve been better off swapping those two for pick 10 . Dunno who we would ve got though

stavro#4 · Jun 10, 2021

70s sainter said:
Just goes to show even 18,19 is no guarantee. Obviously would ve been better off swapping those two for pick 10 . Dunno who we would ve got though

Haha that year pick 10 was freeman.

Pick 9 however was Salem.

Mowman · Jun 10, 2021

stavro#4 said:
Haha that year pick 10 was freeman.

Pick 9 however was Salem.

pick 26 Merrett

g_TRAIN · Jun 10, 2021

StCicatriz said:
So if hanners walks it's not gonna be inside the salary cap right? Right?

How is it allowed to be outside the cap?

hayes · Jun 10, 2021

saint66au said:
We had Picks 3 18 19 and got Billings, Acres and Dunstan

There were plenty of good options at those picks we just stuffed every one of them.

StCicatriz · Jun 10, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
How is it allowed to be outside the cap?

because collingwood

its laughable how much the AFL picks and chooses when to apply its own rules

g_TRAIN · Jun 10, 2021

hayes said:
There were plenty of good options at those picks we just stuffed every one of them.

18 years since we picked up an all Australian in the national draft. The longest of any club

mighty_sainters · Jun 10, 2021

I firmly believe our recruiting isn’t as bad as our player development. Surely over the past 6/7 years not all our top picks are duds, I’d lean more towards we just have no clue how to develop these players from within.

It sort of takes me back to the Ross Lyon days where I really just wanted Armitage to get a shot at it.

How we had 28 player to pick from on the weekend yet Bytel still couldn’t find a spot.

I don’t know, it’s probably just me not seeing something but there’s more issues than just our recruiting it seems. Even though I think we are really lacking in that space.

Enclosed_Animal · Jun 10, 2021

hayes said:
There were plenty of good options at those picks we just stuffed every one of them.

Mowman said:
pick 26 Merrett

16 Darcy Lang
17 Sean Lemmons
18 Dunstan
19 Acres
20 Jack Leslie
21 Jarman Impey
22 Darcy Gardiner
23 Matt Crouch
24 Billy Hartung
25 Daniel McStay
27 Michael Apenness
28 Lewis Taylor

Yes Dunstan and Acres wasn't ideal. But none of the others picked in that region were any better aside from Merrett and probably Gardiner. So about a 2 in 12 chance of hitting any better.

Just wanted to add some context to the "why didn't we just pick that one specific player" narrative going on all the time!

Aside from Merrett, the guy around those pics that would help us the most is probably pick 15. Zac Jones. Lucky we got him at half the price a few years later

gringo2011 · Jun 11, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
18 years since we picked up an all Australian in the national draft. The longest of any club

It seems bizarre that we didn't go after a pro recruiter like Stephen Wells. If I was in rebuild mode the most important person in the club is your recruiter. Trout had been an assistant coach, took leave for personal reasons and came back and was given the head recruiting role with no experience. Pretty bizarre stuff. He was given 7 years with no evidence of improvement. It's not his fault that they gave him a job that wasn't his strength, it was really poor management by the club. I was hoping that Bassat having a business that literally is a recruitment company, would be able to fill a lot of internal roles with expert staff.

gringo2011 · Jun 11, 2021

mighty_sainters said:
I firmly believe our recruiting isn’t as bad as our player development. Surely over the past 6/7 years not all our top picks are duds, I’d lean more towards we just have no clue how to develop these players from within.

It sort of takes me back to the Ross Lyon days where I really just wanted Armitage to get a shot at it.

How we had 28 player to pick from on the weekend yet Bytel still couldn’t find a spot.

I don’t know, it’s probably just me not seeing something but there’s more issues than just our recruiting it seems. Even though I think we are really lacking in that space.

Probably a bit of both to be honest. My mental image of player development is get a few early games, play VFL for 4 years and delist. I got to know a player who was not happy with Richo who he claimed would give him a list of things to work on and promises if he met some markers he'd get games in the seniors. Games weren't given and excuses made for why he had to work on a different list that pushed the whole lot to another month away over and over. After a while you could tell he knew there was no future, it would have been hard to give a **** to be honest. He killed time before being delisted with no honesty or selection integrity.

SaintsSeptember · Jun 11, 2021

70s sainter said:
Just goes to show even 18,19 is no guarantee. Obviously would ve been better off swapping those two for pick 10 . Dunno who we would ve got though

18 or 19 would have been fine to pick up Crouch.

ScrappyDo · Jun 11, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Probably a bit of both to be honest. My mental image of player development is get a few early games, play VFL for 4 years and delist. I got to know a player who was not happy with Richo who he claimed would give him a list of things to work on and promises if he met some markers he'd get games in the seniors. Games weren't given and excuses made for why he had to work on a different list that pushed the whole lot to another month away over and over. After a while you could tell he knew there was no future, it would have been hard to give a fu** to be honest. He killed time before being delisted with no honesty or selection integrity.

Freezer: "what do I need to do to play seniors"
Cho: "Go back and play elite football"

What a guy...

stavro#4 · Jun 11, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Probably a bit of both to be honest. My mental image of player development is get a few early games, play VFL for 4 years and delist. I got to know a player who was not happy with Richo who he claimed would give him a list of things to work on and promises if he met some markers he'd get games in the seniors. Games weren't given and excuses made for why he had to work on a different list that pushed the whole lot to another month away over and over. After a while you could tell he knew there was no future, it would have been hard to give a fu** to be honest. He killed time before being delisted with no honesty or selection integrity.

As I posted earlier in the week. I made some good friendships with some guys who played a fair bit of football under Richo.

There was a huge belief that if you weren’t a favourite. You wouldn’t play under him. That selection had no integrity and it didn’t matter if you were knocking the door down in the 2s if Jack Newnes had your position. You wouldn’t play.

I know of a story where the Saints played Saturday and got pumped. Sandy played Sunday, pre match Richo told this particular player, if he had a strong day - he would play.

Player ends up being BOG has close to 30. Kicks a couple. Gets told he will play.

Then named as an emergency for the saints with the reason being that they are going to back the same boys that got smashed the week before to redeem …. They got smashed again

g_TRAIN · Jun 11, 2021

stavro#4 said:
As I posted earlier in the week. I made some good friendships with some guys who played a fair bit of football under Richo.

There was a huge belief that if you weren’t a favourite. You wouldn’t play under him. That selection had no integrity and it didn’t matter if you were knocking the door down in the 2s if Jack Newnes had your position. You wouldn’t play.

I know of a story where the Saints played Saturday and got pumped. Sandy played Sunday, pre match Richo told this particular player, if he had a strong day - he would play.

Player ends up being BOG has close to 30. Kicks a couple. Gets told he will play.

Then named as an emergency for the saints with the reason being that they are going to back the same boys that got smashed the week before to redeem …. They got smashed again

Brandon White? :think:

There was a period where week after week he was Sandy's best player but couldn't get a game in the senior team despite the weekly floggings we were getting. Then he got delisted

stavro#4 · Jun 11, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
Brandon White?

There was a period where week after week he was Sandy's best player but couldn't get a game in the senior team despite the weekly floggings we were getting. Then he got delisted

I’m not going to comment who mate. Probably not fair. The player and coach are no longer here.

Minga · Jun 11, 2021

Just want to look back the Crouch trade respective of the other midfielders we could’ve brought in.

Firstly, I think Crouch has been great for us, he makes a formidable pair with Steele, is physical and gets his hands on the footy. He’s an older guy, but not too old that we are going to have to throw him out in a couple of years. People were worried about his injuries and to a lesser extent his off-field indiscretions, but (touch Mason Wood) he has been a good citizen, and able to get on the park (even after fracturing his cheek or whatever happened in the Geelong game).

Caldwell and Treloar were the other two who expressed an interest in the Saints. Both have had significant injuries since, but to be fair I think Caldwell will be a solid player at the Bombers and Treloar has shown he works well with the Doggies stacked midfield - although his speed would’ve been nice.

I’m glad we got Crouch. With our recent trading of big name players, I’m not surprised people, myself included, were concerned about having another Hill/Hannebery situation on our hands. Not to mention we basically only lost salary room to land him, which is great value.

A day before he plays his old club for the first time, and I reckon he is rearing to go after his 38 disposals last week. If he consistently performs, he’ll be an important factor for our team for a long while to come - as both a leader for the youthful mids (hopefully) coming in and to stabilise the current midfield group.

hayes · Jun 11, 2021

gringo2011 said:
It seems bizarre that we didn't go after a pro recruiter like Stephen Wells. If I was in rebuild mode the most important person in the club is your recruiter. Trout had been an assistant coach, took leave for personal reasons and came back and was given the head recruiting role with no experience. Pretty bizarre stuff. He was given 7 years with no evidence of improvement. It's not his fault that they gave him a job that wasn't his strength, it was really poor management by the club. I was hoping that Bassat having a business that literally is a recruitment company, would be able to fill a lot of internal roles with expert staff.

By far the biggest stuff up of the rebuild. People talk about how important coaches, president, development and everything else is but the most important person at a footy club is the recruiter. Nobody can do anything with ordinary players.

I remember suggesting going after a proven recruiter when Trout got moved on but I got a lot of “we’ll be right”. It’s too important of a position to hope someone is good at. The new guys started well but they look like they’ve lost their way a bit since the draft last year. I’d still be going all out for a proven gun recruiter if it were up to me.

StCicatriz · Jun 11, 2021

gringo2011 said:
It seems bizarre that we didn't go after a pro recruiter like Stephen Wells. If I was in rebuild mode the most important person in the club is your recruiter. Trout had been an assistant coach, took leave for personal reasons and came back and was given the head recruiting role with no experience. Pretty bizarre stuff. He was given 7 years with no evidence of improvement. It's not his fault that they gave him a job that wasn't his strength, it was really poor management by the club. I was hoping that Bassat having a business that literally is a recruitment company, would be able to fill a lot of internal roles with expert staff.

we had two recruiters attending champs games here in 2014...

trout + ameet

ameet knew sweet **** all on how to identify talent

so we really just had 1

Joffaboy · Jun 11, 2021

Plenty of players from the Lyon era had the exact same thing to say about Lyon and his favourites.... one big difference, Lyon got us to 3 top 4's, Grand finals in two seasons and another finals appearance.

Even without the ultimate success, his 'favourites' routine is cut more slack than Richo's because of the success he did have.

pebblesofsand · Jun 11, 2021

Minga said:
Just want to look back the Crouch trade respective of the other midfielders we could’ve brought in.

Firstly, I think Crouch has been great for us, he makes a formidable pair with Steele, is physical and gets his hands on the footy. He’s an older guy, but not too old that we are going to have to throw him out in a couple of years. People were worried about his injuries and to a lesser extent his off-field indiscretions, but (touch Mason Wood) he has been a good citizen, and able to get on the park (even after fracturing his cheek or whatever happened in the Geelong game).

Caldwell and Treloar were the other two who expressed an interest in the Saints. Both have had significant injuries since, but to be fair I think Caldwell will be a solid player at the Bombers and Treloar has shown he works well with the Doggies stacked midfield - although his speed would’ve been nice.

I’m glad we got Crouch. With our recent trading of big name players, I’m not surprised people, myself included, were concerned about having another Hill/Hannebery situation on our hands. Not to mention we basically only lost salary room to land him, which is great value.

A day before he plays his old club for the first time, and I reckon he is rearing to go after his 38 disposals last week. If he consistently performs, he’ll be an important factor for our team for a long while to come - as both a leader for the youthful mids (hopefully) coming in and to stabilise the current midfield group.

And people bag us for Hannebery!!!

Essendon coughed up a mid 20"s pick, a 4 year deal (on comparatively big $) for relatively untried player who already had an issue with soft tissue injuries. Not looking like a great deal ATM!!

As for Treloar - Crouch was in the bag before Treloar became an option - not relevant.

Crouch was a great get.

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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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