Autopsy Round 13, 2021: St.Kilda v Adelaide

[EWarren2017]

Nick Hind & Hickey in All Australian contention, thoughts?

Hickey has same old problems
Goes missing when things don’t go his way
Injury prone. He was terrible v hawks

 

[EWarren2017]

It's pretty annoying that we got rid of him and he's sitting second in the Coleman playing closer to goal. we had him run end to end and not play as a permanent deep forward. His one year we did play him there he topped our goal kicking

Lol
Kicked 10 v north
He was lazy and unprofessional off the field, and we would have had to pay him way over, and it took a club not wanting him for him to improve 10-15% he would have been another bad influence, terrible leadership. And would have impacted poorly on kings progress…and this long sleeves..! Not at all what we need at the Saints but fits in well at dogs cos all he has to do is stay fit, turn up and kick goals.

 

[KingsRansom]

It's pretty annoying that we got rid of him and he's sitting second in the Coleman playing closer to goal. we had him run end to end and not play as a permanent deep forward. His one year we did play him there he topped our goal kicking

I'm sure that's how GWS were feeling the same way in 2015 at the same time when he was second on the Coleman at this point of the year as well.
He wouldn't be playing at saints unless there was an injury, same as hind, same as Newnes.

 

[jwikked]

Not at all what we need at the Saints but fits in well at dogs cos all he has to do is stay fit, turn up and kick goals.

 

[EWarren2017]

In summary, their on an off field leadership doesn't need propping up by Josh Bruce. He is just a role player for them. Unfortunately he was a terrible influence at the saints. I am very happy he doesn't play for us anymore. Relived is a better word

 

[gringo2011]

Lol
Kicked 10 v north
He was lazy and unprofessional off the field, and we would have had to pay him way over, and it took a club not wanting him for him to improve 10-15% he would have been another bad influence, terrible leadership. And would have impacted poorly on kings progress…and this long sleeves..! Not at all what we need at the Saints but fits in well at dogs cos all he has to do is stay fit, turn up and kick goals.

The players have been lazy and useless since he left so not sure of his influence. He at least tried. Our bad influence removal, choirboy cult has made us the dullest most psychologically uncompetitive side in footy. I actually think we used him badly. He's kicked 60 goals playing deep forward so we had him run end to end and made his output drop away. Pretty much exactly what we've done to Membrey since he left.

We seem to be doing a good job at ruining King's development without Bruce so stretching one of the best 2 defenders out couldn't have hurt him.

 

[gringo2011]

In summary, their on an off field leadership doesn't need propping up by Josh Bruce. He is just a role player for them. Unfortunately he was a terrible influence at the saints. I am very happy he doesn't play for us anymore. Relived is a better word

Honestly this bad influence s**t is not actually helping us though. We are seriously uncompetitive, a good club should be able to manage a few dickheads without the whole place going to seed. The Dogs have made a whole side out of people you'd cross the road to avoid and are close to a premiership.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm sure that's how GWS were feeling the same way in 2015 at the same time when he was second on the Coleman at this point of the year as well.
He wouldn't be playing at saints unless there was an injury, same as hind, same as Newnes.

I'm sure GWS was pissed that Bruce was going well at the Saints as would be a normal response. There are about 14 players that need to be delisted this year. This is total bullshit, we are playing half a dozen barely AFL standard players most weeks and our forward line is close to the worst in the AFL. Newnes and Acres aren't much chop but neither are most of our players this year including our highest paid player.

 

[BrutThough]

We seem to be doing a good job at ruining King's development without Bruce so stretching one of the best 2 defenders out couldn't have hurt him.

If we kept Bruce, how does the set up look when Marshall and Ryder are both fit, Membrey is playing and with the knowledge we wanted to prioritise getting games into King? You cant play them all at once.

One of them would have has to play at Sandy. And it would have been either Ryder or Bruce with Marshall a lock, King's development a priority and Membrey being a POD for our forward line.

With the way the 2 ruck set up has transformed our midfield, it's hard to say playing Ryder has been a mistake. So that means we would either needed to have overpaid Bruce to stay without guaranteeing he would be in our favoured set up, or we trade him.

 

[gringo2011]

If we kept Bruce, how does the set up look when Marshall and Ryder are both fit, Membrey is playing and with the knowledge we wanted to prioritise getting games into King? You cant play them all at once.

One of them would have has to play at Sandy. And it would have been either Ryder or Bruce with Marshall a lock, King's development a priority and Membrey being a POD for our forward line.

With the way the 2 ruck set up has transformed our midfield, it's hard to say playing Ryder has been a mistake. So that means we would either needed to have overpaid Bruce to stay without guaranteeing he would be in our favoured set up, or we trade him.

Honestly the end game is about a premiership. I don't want to scare people but we are probably at least 3 years off being a serious threat to top 4 and that's if everything goes right.

Paddy Ryder is a gun- he won't be there.

King is the player everything hinges on and his development should be the priority long term. We should be looking at him like a foal sired by a champion, Using him to pull a plow because you have an old plow lying around isn't that.

We were always going to be doing a huge clean out at the end of this year and we cut depth out like Hind for nothing. We either didn't identify his worth, or weren't planning ahead.

We are playing Membrey as a mobile high half forward which leaves an extra tall back on King and means Membrey is spent when he kicks. Bad management for Tim, the side and King.

We could have played Bruce back even, we are still a tall back man short.

The two ruck men worked great last year covering a s**t midfield but it should be about long term not now. We need to buy up a good ruckman who plays like Ryder for continuity now or hopefully we can build a midfield that can work with Marshall and a fill in forward ruck instead.

Basically everything should be done with an eye on the future not on what the current season looks like. The amount of dead wood that needs cutting out will leave huge holes everywhere, losing guys that were better fringe players doesn't seem like good management to me because now we'll be grabbing late picked end of draft fillers with years less development in them.

 

[KingsRansom]

I'm sure GWS was pissed that Bruce was going well at the Saints as would be a normal response. There are about 14 players that need to be delisted this year. This is total bullshit, we are playing half a dozen barely AFL standard players most weeks and our forward line is close to the worst in the AFL. Newnes and Acres aren't much chop but neither are most of our players this year including our highest paid player.

You would be saying the same thing about Bruce....like you said in the last 3 years before he was traded...if he was in the team now. I can't explain what's going on with the team, but they players we have on the park have shown they are quality in the past. For some reason or another, it's not clicking right now.

You might say I'm overly optimistic, but like you I'm looking from the past to support my narrative. Most of the players have shown they are good enough, maybe the team needs a good "lock out" together to dismiss whatever demons are happening.

 

[gringo2011]

You would be saying the same thing about Bruce....like you said in the last 3 years before he was traded...if he was in the team now. I can't explain what's going on with the team, but they players we have on the park have shown they are quality in the past. For some reason or another, it's not clicking right now.

You might say I'm overly optimistic, but like you I'm looking from the past to support my narrative. Most of the players have shown they are good enough, maybe the team needs a good "lock out" together to dismiss whatever demons are happening.

We had one good year when others were struggling in hub life, low injury list, lots of players had outlier good years that haven't been backed up, injuries, form drop etc. The one good year is the one that stands out from the last 10. Even last year I was saying that they were list issues because I analyse other clubs lists. We look much more like the profiles of the bottom 8 clubs than the top 8 clubs.

I have often said if we can get our best 22 on the park we can challenge most sides on a good day. The best clubs can challenge any club, any day even with injuries and have systems that carry a few if needed. We aren't ready to start again but we are half way through at best and I think realistically we have worked out that King will be peaking when we are seriously challenging again and that will probably be 2024 2025. A couple of year of doing the heavy lifting in the draft will make or break the refresh. I'd be buying up the best recruiter we can find.

 

[KingsRansom]

We had one good year when others were struggling in hub life, low injury list, lots of players had outlier good years that haven't been backed up, injuries, form drop etc. The one good year is the one that stands out from the last 10. Even last year I was saying that they were list issues because I analyse other clubs lists. We look much more like the profiles of the bottom 8 clubs than the top 8 clubs.

I have often said if we can get our best 22 on the park we can challenge most sides on a good day. The best clubs can challenge any club, any day even with injuries and have systems that carry a few if needed. We aren't ready to start again but we are half way through at best and I think realistically we have worked out that King will be peaking when we are seriously challenging again and that will probably be 2024 2025. A couple of year of doing the heavy lifting in the draft will make or break the refresh. I'd be buying up the best recruiter we can find.

Could not agree more. We have a finals list, we don't have a premiership list. We need a couple more drafted stars. I just have to have faith the club gets it right

 

[BrutThough]

Honestly the end game is about a premiership. I don't want to scare people but we are probably at least 3 years off being a serious threat to top 4 and that's if everything goes right.

Paddy Ryder is a gun- he won't be there.

King is the player everything hinges on and his development should be the priority long term. We should be looking at him like a foal sired by a champion, Using him to pull a plow because you have an old plow lying around isn't that.

We were always going to be doing a huge clean out at the end of this year and we cut depth out like Hind for nothing. We either didn't identify his worth, or weren't planning ahead.

We are playing Membrey as a mobile high half forward which leaves an extra tall back on King and means Membrey is spent when he kicks. Bad management for Tim, the side and King.

We could have played Bruce back even, we are still a tall back man short.

The two ruck men worked great last year covering a sh*t midfield but it should be about long term not now. We need to buy up a good ruckman who plays like Ryder for continuity now or hopefully we can build a midfield that can work with Marshall and a fill in forward ruck instead.

Basically everything should be done with an eye on the future not on what the current season looks like. The amount of dead wood that needs cutting out will leave huge holes everywhere, losing guys that were better fringe players doesn't seem like good management to me because now we'll be grabbing late picked end of draft fillers with years less development in them.

If we are discounting Ryder on the basis that he wouldn't be there in 3 years time, then you could probably discount Bruce who would be 32 by that stage as well. They wanted Marshall to have some assistance in the ruck so he wasn't broken down by that point, which is something Bruce couldn't provide.

If you are taking about planning ahead, I would say prioritising playing 20-23 year olds at half back over trying a soon to be 27 year old in Hind there is doing that. Unfortunately, Hind had no value when he traded him. Great from Essendon for identifying that and bringing him in to fill a big need for them. But letting a 27 year old fringe player go when we had multiple younger players who had been playing better in his preferred role is not high on the 'bad list management decisions' list.

Also, Bruce is a terrible defender. By his own admission, he struggles to read the ball coming in and he doesn't have the foot skills to exit defence. Playing him down back would be no good for anyone but the opposition. Keeping him on a large contract to either play in a position he outright sucks in or as a backup forward wouldn't have made much sense for us or for Bruce.

 

[gringo2011]

If we are discounting Ryder on the basis that he wouldn't be there in 3 years time, then you could probably discount Bruce who would be 32 by that stage as well. They wanted Marshall to have some assistance in the ruck so he wasn't broken down by that point, which is something Bruce couldn't provide.

If you are taking about planning ahead, I would say prioritising playing 20-23 year olds at half back over trying a soon to be 27 year old in Hind there is doing that. Unfortunately, Hind had no value when he traded him. Great from Essendon for identifying that and bringing him in to fill a big need for them. But letting a 27 year old fringe player go when we had multiple younger players who had been playing better in his preferred role is not high on the 'bad list management decisions' list.

Also, Bruce is a terrible defender. By his own admission, he struggles to read the ball coming in and he doesn't have the foot skills to exit defence. Playing him down back would be no good for anyone but the opposition. Keeping him on a large contract to either play in a position he outright sucks in or as a backup forward wouldn't have made much sense for us or for Bruce.

Bruce would be about developing King in a way where he's under less pressure ideally but the idea that we can't fit him is a pretty crazy as well. Marshall doesn't really play KPF he roams. That doesn't really help King who plays surrounded by defenders.

 

[BrutThough]

Bruce would be about developing King in a way where he's under less pressure ideally but the idea that we can't fit him is a pretty crazy as well. Marshall doesn't really play KPF he roams. That doesn't really help King who plays surrounded by defenders.

Except when we are playing two ruckman, you can't play all of Marshall, King, Membrey and Bruce in the same forward line.

So Bruce was the one who fell out.

 

[BigMonty]

Bruce would be about developing King in a way where he's under less pressure ideally but the idea that we can't fit him is a pretty crazy as well. Marshall doesn't really play KPF he roams. That doesn't really help King who plays surrounded by defenders.

When Marshall plays forward he makes a good defender accountable which makes Kings job a bit easier.

Marshall playing forward anchors the fwd line and gives us much better structure. Allowing for crumbers the chance to run onto the ball and go for goal or lower eyes and kick to Bing.

That's why Butler et al look s**t. Higgins has literally become a marking one on one forward replacing Marshall or Membrey.

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

When Marshall plays forward he makes a good defender accountable which makes Kings job a bit easier.

Marshall playing forward anchors the fwd line and gives us much better structure. Allowing for crumbers the chance to run onto the ball and go for goal or lower eyes and kick to Bing.

That's why Butler et al look sh*t. Higgins has literally become a marking one on one forward replacing Marshall or Membrey.

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

He rarely parks though and tends to roam. Same with Membrey. When you sit up high you see King planted flat footed in a pack of players and Marshall of Higgins tend to run out to the flanks with a congregation around the top of the square. I honestly don't know what we think we are teaching him.

 

[EWarren2017]

Honestly this bad influence sh*t is not actually helping us though. We are seriously uncompetitive, a good club should be able to manage a few dickheads without the whole place going to seed. The Dogs have made a whole side out of people you'd cross the road to avoid and are close to a premiership.

I was so happy when Bruce got traded and still am
How did he go in the final last year..?

 

[gringo2011]

I was so happy when Bruce got traded and still am
How did he go in the final last year..?

His whole 2020 was s**t but you can't fault him this year. He's been excellent. We'd jizz ourselves if King was second in the Coleman.

 

[LennyHayes77]

What's all this about Bruce being a bad influence and lazy? Didn't he spend the off season working out with Steele? Or am I making that up?

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

What's all this about Bruce being a bad influence and lazy? Didn't he spend the off season working out with Steele? Or am I making that up?

That’s probably what got him into form. Realised he was unfit and lazy so he completely got off the booze and trained with Steele, an extremely hard worker.

 

[Crusty Undies]

The players have been lazy and useless since he left so not sure of his influence. He at least tried. Our bad influence removal, choirboy cult has made us the dullest most psychologically uncompetitive side in footy. I actually think we used him badly. He's kicked 60 goals playing deep forward so we had him run end to end and made his output drop away. Pretty much exactly what we've done to Membrey since he left.

We seem to be doing a good job at ruining King's development without Bruce so stretching one of the best 2 defenders out couldn't have hurt him.

I actually disagree. Last year the players weren't lazy or useless, and Bruce rocked up with a few too many extra 6 packs to the pre-season just like every year with us. He played s**t last year and everyone at the doggies was wondering why the * they picked him up. The fact he's turned it around now is an indication of the fact he was told to pretty explicitly pull his head in and pick up his act. The two are unrelated. Bruce playing well and us playing poorly are mutually independent events and fretting over them like this isn't gonna help us play better or be happier about footy.

 

[gringo2011]

That’s probably what got him into form. Realised he was unfit and lazy so he completely got off the booze and trained with Steele, an extremely hard worker.

He did well, apparently we all hated him but he trained with an ex teammate. Shame Steele didn't train one of our guys.

 

[Sully111]

I'm sure that's how GWS were feeling the same way in 2015 at the same time when he was second on the Coleman at this point of the year as well.
He wouldn't be playing at saints unless there was an injury, same as hind, same as Newnes.

If hind wouldn't be playing at the saints unless there was an injury, we are the dumbest footy club in history. Right now he'd be in contention for the AA squad.