List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Blue_Steel89]

With the appointment of Voss and the improvement of Wines over the past year, I am excited to see what Voss can do with Stocker and hopefully seeing him play in the middle which is where he was recruited to play. I am going to assume that Voss would love Stockers physicallity!

 

[gbatman]

Stocker, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh, Cripps is a way better center group than anything we have come up with for years. We need to get quicker and tougher.

 

[Donnini]

Stocker, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh, Cripps is a way better center group than anything we have come up with for years. We need to get quicker and tougher.

Yes, we need stop losing stoppages and clearances due to lack of talent. I specifically said talent as thats where the problem.

If we start to halve contests and give H a clear look at it would be a good start. Otherwise giving the opposition easy looks into their forward 50 due to losing stoppages is basically running around in circles until the midfield mix is right

 

[thylacine60]

Stocker, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh, Cripps is a way better center group than anything we have come up with for years. We need to get quicker and tougher.

throw in power, diesel & voss............

 

[X-Factor]

throw in power, diesel & voss............

Maybe even throw Lappin into the midfield mix and we have ourselves a good midfield


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sammo63]

Stocker, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh, Cripps is a way better center group than anything we have come up with for years. We need to get quicker and tougher.

So Cerra has nominated us ?

 

[gbatman]

So Cerra has nominated us ?

Hopefully!

Yes, we need stop losing stoppages and clearances due to lack of talent. I specifically said talent as thats where the problem.

If we start to halve contests and give H a clear look at it would be a good start. Otherwise giving the opposition easy looks into their forward 50 due to losing stoppages is basically running around in circles until the midfield mix is right

Our ability to win stoppages and move the ball is really mediocre, when things are going our way we look a million bucks, when the opposition get a look at it we have no ability to defend. A good example is our game against Port towards the end of the season. When we are getting ball in hand we are as good as anyone. When the opposition start winning it we are witches hats.

Lack of leg speed and lack of desire to do the team things is where we fall to bits.

The midfield needs to be rebuilt which means taking young players from other positions and recruitment and development.

A players ability to get from their starting position to 2-5 meters away at speed to make a contest or apply pressure is really poor in our team.
A few individuals who avoid heavy contact need to be moved off our list.
A few individuals who put in very poor efforts to chase and run defensively need to be moved off our list.


Centermen
Cripps - He needs to spend more time rotating, he's a good ball player but defensively he gets left in the lurch.
Kennedy - Again he's a good offensive player and he does put in effort but he's just too slow, when the opposition get it he's a massive liability.
Dow - The efforts he puts in to chase and run defensively are extremely poor.
Walsh - He's an elite midfielder and one of few who are two way players.
Setterfield - May have potential as a tagger but again he's another slow tall immobile midfielder. The ability to quickly make up ground and get to that spot 2-5 meters away isn't there with these guys.
Fisher - No good in the contests at all, great when space is offered, this is why in high pressure games he disappears and if he doesn't change, won't make it.
Curnow - Been a great battler but he's getting older and is just a mediocre or little better mid at best. Skills let him down a bit but terrific runner and competitor.
SPS - Nowhere near good enough in the contests and questionable running ability. Requesting a trade.
Carroll - Looks to have the goods but raw and unseen.
Ramsay - Raw and was playing well in the VFL in the midfield then they moved him to defence.
Stocker - One good game in the midfield against Melbourne but has played all in defence, should move into the centre.

Wings
Walsh - Elite wingaman needed in the centre.
O'Brien - Showed good signs towards the end, has struggled with the physical side of the game.
Newnes - Tough as nails but lacks a fair bit of polish.
Docherty - Ok winger but not really a wingamn.
Carroll - See above.
Ramsay - See above.
Martin - Why don't we play him there? Not fit enough?
Cuningham - Talented, questionable footy IQ though. Injured knee but a good prospect if fit.
Philp - Young and injured and unseen.
Cottrell - Great runner, rough skills and very light body.


Midfield will need a rebuild to get our ability to defend up to scratch, otherwise we will continue see games were we are competitive to good for a half and then the opposition get their run on and storm all over us.

You would hope Ramsay and Carroll come on quickly. Hewett and Cerra come in and Stocker moves into the middle. O'Brien keeps improving, Philp comes on. It could happen quickly but this is where the new coach needs to get it right.

 

[gbatman]

We are going to need to replace Jones at CHB some time, while some of us are hoping Marchbank may one day get fit and be that player, is there a chance with the SPS trade we could get Brander out of WCE for that job? I haven't seen enough of him to tell whether he could do that role but the potential looks to be there. Could he be good enough? He's OOC. The issue is we need to get Cerra so pick 6 is gone. Would pick 25 and SPS get it done? Perhaps with 36 and Brander coming to us?

 

[BluesRule]

We are going to need to replace Jones at CHB some time, while some of us are hoping Marchbank may one day get fit and be that player, is there a chance with the SPS trade we could get Brander out of WCE for that job? I haven't seen enough of him to tell whether he could do that role but the potential looks to be there. Could he be good enough? He's OOC. The issue is we need to get Cerra so pick 6 is gone. Would pick 25 and SPS get it done? Perhaps with 36 and Brander coming to us?

Brander would need to get taller, heavier and a lot faster to replace Jones

 

[JuddgementDay]

someone like Setterfield, Marchbank or SPS would probably be on around that $400k mark already so getting someone like Hewitt in can easily be offset by losing one of them. Cerra likewise might only get an extra ~$200k more then what they are getting.
Unless our kids keep underperforming we will no doubt run into trouble but hopefully if we are having success we can then start having players accepting less. I think it’ll come down to making smart calls on our depth players. Which ones we need to keep and which ones we can do without. No point paying guys $3-400k to sit in the VFL side. One smart call on those type of guys can easily cover the amount overpaid to some other players. With reduced lists there really should be handy players available for depth that can be picked up on a rookie wage. I don’t think clubs are brutal enough but I see no point in offering someone like Newnes more then a rookie wage as I couldn’t imagine any other side wanting him.

If only it was that easy.

If SPS is on $400K, how many of our other borderline best 22 players are in this pay bracket?
Cerra was quoted around the $700K - $750K bracket; so a fair bit more than $200K extra

Whilst I would love to add Cerra to our list.
I just can't see how we can fit Cerra in, especially with forking out $$$ for Hewett - and have enough money in reserve for big up coming Walsh contract
It's just not prudent salary cap management

 

[BlueTongue]

I think this is around the mark

I'm hoping Vossy manages to talk SPS out of it and puts him in the midfield.
I think he's worth more to us than (effectively) a future 3rd, and I'm betting with a bit tougher love and a return to the position he should be in he'll go a lot better.

 

[BlueTongue]

So it's a low ball - glad we confirmed that.
It will be more than 6

It will depend on what Melbourne offers and how bad we want him.
If Melbourne can't trade a Player like Brayshaw (re-uniting the Brothers) to get Cerra, they will not be in the ball park and Freo will want pick 6.
If that happens, it will be 6 only. I'm betting Austin only caved last year due to the fact that we had already committed to Saad.

 

[BlueTongue]

Looks likely Hewett is coming our way. He's no superstar but I like how he plays, he's going to bring some pressure and physicality and we lack that. You add Cerra as well and here are two guys likely to start in the midfield for us and improve us.

IMO our midfield is a basketcase. Too many slow, immobile, tall types and a few who don't like the contest or to chase in there. It needs to be rebuilt. Backline is pretty good, forward line is coming along, too many of the same type who don't suit the modern game in the middle.

Getting these two goes a step in the right direction for us I would hope.

Our backline is pretty good but VERY volatile if one of Weiters or Jones gets injured - even for a short stint, we are leaking bad.
We desperately need another upcoming tall to develop before Jones calls it a day, and we def need a 3rd tall now as I don't think Williamson or Marchbank is going to hold that spot down.

Unless we can get Talia for a year or two, which that would give us some flexibility and breathing space, our defense is in worse shape than our Midfield.

I guess it all depends on SPS, Setterfield and Cunners.

 

[Arr0w]

I'm hoping Vossy manages to talk SPS out of it and puts him in the midfield.
I think he's worth more to us than (effectively) a future 3rd, and I'm betting with a bit tougher love and a return to the position he should be in he'll go a lot better.

I hope he stays too

I know all clubs will have injuries and with the possible inclusions of Cerra an Hewett(who could play back), it would be difficult to allow these types to play in the middle, even considering likely delistings

So let's do the exercise( am sure everyone will have variations

Plow Weitering Williams
Doc Jones Saad

Walsh Cripps Hewett
TDK Cerra Dow

SPS Charlie JSos
Fisher Harry Martin

Newman, Stocker, Ed, LOB

Spare Backs - Willo, Marchbank, Kemp (Utility)
Spare Mids/Forwards - Kennedy, Setters, Newnes, Gibbons, Cuners, Fog, Ramsay, Philp, Cotts, Carroll
Forwards - Honey, Gov, Owies,

Players bolded, you could easily make a case for many of these guys playing ahead of SPS, and even though Voss sees him ahead of all these guys, I doubt he would be seen as a starting mid/onballer

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If only it was that easy.

If SPS is on $400K, how many of our other borderline best 22 players are in this pay bracket?
Cerra was quoted around the $700K - $750K bracket; so a fair bit more than $200K extra

Whilst I would love to add Cerra to our list.
I just can't see how we can fit Cerra in, especially with forking out $$$ for Hewett - and have enough money in reserve for big up coming Walsh contract
It's just not prudent salary cap management

Obviously we don’t have exact figures but if you can say delist and re-rookie Newnes and say SPS moves then it wouldn’t surprise me if we are spending the same amount or less on Cerra and Newnes next season as we are Newnes and SPS this year. Walsh and a rookie take up Setterfield’s $400k, these type of moves I think we will need to make.
If we can’t fit Cerra in then we can’t fit any decent player in because that’s how much they are paid, especially KPP’s and Midfielders. Our midfield is one of the weakest in the league so that’s the exact area we should be spending money to improve this side imo.

Doc, SPS, Marchbank, Setterfield and McGovern are coming out of contract over the next few years also, probably opening up $2mil while having very little effect on the side if they are moved on.
Possibly a slight increase to someone like Stocker to replace Doc, SPS is already out of the side, Setterfield not best 22, JSOS plays McGoverns role, Kemp gets an increase to play Marchbank’s role. The best 22 doesn’t change much but we open up a ton of coin.

 

[Ash24]

I hope he stays too

I know all clubs will have injuries and with the possible inclusions of Cerra an Hewett(who could play back), it would be difficult to allow these types to play in the middle, even considering likely delistings

So let's do the exercise( am sure everyone will have variations

Plow Weitering Williams
Doc Jones Saad

Walsh Cripps Hewett
TDK Cerra Dow

SPS Charlie JSos
Fisher Harry Martin

Newman, Stocker, Ed, LOB

Spare Backs - Willo, Marchbank, Kemp (Utility)
Spare Mids/Forwards - Kennedy, Setters, Newnes, Gibbons, Cuners, Fog, Ramsay, Philp, Cotts, Carroll
Forwards - Honey, Gov, Owies,

Players bolded, you could easily make a case for many of these guys playing ahead of SPS, and even though Voss sees him ahead of all these guys, I doubt he would be seen as a starting mid/onballer

That's a really solid team there and quite close to my best 22. In my opinion Kennedy is really stiff to miss out, although only playing through half the year he was probably our 2nd best mid. Owies is another one who despite finishing the season quietly, started the year off really hot.

The problem though is with who they'd replace. Dow would struggle to find a place in the midfield after the additions of Cerra and Hewett, while SPS probably has a bit to prove before starting in the 18. Another big question mark is Doc - hopefully he can return to footy at some stage next year.

 

[marleyblue]

If only it was that easy.

If SPS is on $400K, how many of our other borderline best 22 players are in this pay bracket?
Cerra was quoted around the $700K - $750K bracket; so a fair bit more than $200K extra

Whilst I would love to add Cerra to our list.
I just can't see how we can fit Cerra in, especially with forking out $$$ for Hewett - and have enough money in reserve for big up coming Walsh contract
It's just not prudent salary cap management

SPS will be on an inflated contract due to his draft position and potential. Players like Setterfield and O'brien may also be on higher than average but we are all guessing as none of us have visibility on how our salary has been managed and the value/split of contracts. What we do know is the club has openly communicated we have been front-loading major contracts and paying 105% over the past couple of years. We have also heard the club advise we have room for more signings and we clearly wouldn't have approached Cerra and Hewett without considering current salary cap and future demands for Walsh and other breakouts.

In all likelihood, all of McGovern, Martin, and to a lesser extend, Saad/Williams will have been front-loaded and have lower contracts going forward. Add the exits of Murphy, Betts, SPS and Casboult and a reasonable chunk of cash will have been freed up before we consider potential movement of players on mid-tier contracts like Newnes, Setterfield and O'brien.

I'm comfortable SOS left us in a strong position and have faith in the list management team to be planning several moves ahead.

 

[choo]

wondering if Adam Simpson westcoasteagles could be anymore inappropriate. Commenting on the best position for Sam Petrevski-Seton

10

Sam Petrevski-seton

Age

26

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

14.4

3star

K

9.5

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

is a disgrace. Is the bloke tone deaf?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Sam Petrevski-seton

10

Sam Petrevski-seton

Age

26

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

14.4

3star

K

9.5

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

23yrs February 182cm 78kg
#5 2016 ND - 93 career games

A little Breakdown of SPS’s 5 years first three as a mid/fwd last 2 mostly as a defender…
Games, disposals, tackles, clearances and inside50’s…

2017- 20G, 14.2D, 4.8T, 2.1CL, 3.2M,
1.6i50
2018- 22G, 16.1D, 4.3T, 1.3CL, 3.6M, 1.1i50
2019- 22G, 19.1D, 4.4T, 2.1CL, 4.0M, 1.8i50
2020- 16G, 13.6D, 2.2T, 0.9CL, 3.6M, 0.9i50
2021- 13G, 14.1D, 2.2T, 0.9CL, 3.2M, 1.1i50

Jarrod Brander

31

Jarrod Brander

Age

25

Ht

195cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

4.9

5star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.3

2star

D

12.3

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.3

2star

M

5.8

5star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.5

3star

D

9.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.2

2star

22yrs February 195cm 92kg Bendigo
#13 2017 ND - 22 career games
Athletic tall forward/defender, good field kicking skills, forward craft, accurate set/shot at goals…

Couple of list types we actually require that may be acquired cheaply, if gettable, depending on who else we may/may not be capable of landing…

Bailey Williams
21yrs April 200cm 96kg Dandenong
#35 2018 ND - 9 career games
Athletic duel Ruck/KPF with good leap and a strong mark, has really good agility and speed for his size…
3 years development, stuck behind a wall of talls great cheap depth backup?

Jarrod Cameron

39

Jarrod Cameron

Age

23

Ht

182cm

Wt

70kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.3

2star

M

1.7

2star

T

3.6

5star

G

1.3

5star

D

5.0

1star

K

3.5

1star

HB

1.5

1star

M

0.5

1star

T

2.5

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

2.0

5star

21yrs May 182cm 78kg SwanDistricts
#39 2018 ND - 12 career games
Exciting forward with tremendous speed evasiveness and goal sense, strong defensive pressure…
Injured this year and also stuck behind a few very good smalls, fit- would be a walk up for a small forward position…

 

[Jeremias]

wondering if Adam Simpson westcoasteagles could be anymore inappropriate. Commenting on the best position for Sam Petrevski-Seton is a disgrace. Is the bloke tone deaf?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why?

SPS is out of contract, wants out of Carlton, and wants to head to West Coast.

Simpson did nothing wrong.

 

[Revenant1965]

Why?

SPS is out of contract, wants out of Carlton, and wants to head to West Coast.

Simpson did nothing wrong.

Plus, I am hoping that if SPS is traded, and because Simpson has essentially talked about WC wanting SPS, that this means a stronger bargaining position for CFC, and a reasonable return...

 

[JuddgementDay]

That's a really solid team there and quite close to my best 22. In my opinion Kennedy is really stiff to miss out, although only playing through half the year he was probably our 2nd best mid. Owies is another one who despite finishing the season quietly, started the year off really hot.

The problem though is with who they'd replace. Dow would struggle to find a place in the midfield after the additions of Cerra and Hewett, while SPS probably has a bit to prove before starting in the 18. Another big question mark is Doc - hopefully he can return to footy at some stage next year.

SPS will be on an inflated contract due to his draft position and potential. Players like Setterfield and O'brien may also be on higher than average but we are all guessing as none of us have visibility on how our salary has been managed and the value/split of contracts. What we do know is the club has openly communicated we have been front-loading major contracts and paying 105% over the past couple of years. We have also heard the club advise we have room for more signings and we clearly wouldn't have approached Cerra and Hewett without considering current salary cap and future demands for Walsh and other breakouts.

In all likelihood, all of McGovern, Martin, and to a lesser extend, Saad/Williams will have been front-loaded and have lower contracts going forward. Add the exits of Murphy, Betts, SPS and Casboult and a reasonable chunk of cash will have been freed up before we consider potential movement of players on mid-tier contracts like Newnes, Setterfield and O'brien.

I'm comfortable SOS left us in a strong position and have faith in the list management team to be planning several moves ahead.

Thanks guys, I'm not saying it is impossible - but, I think we are pretty tight with the salary cap already, as we have overpaid with our recent contracts.
I'm not discussing whether they are worth it or not, but they certainly take up a good chunk of our salary cap - front loaded or not.

McGovern, Martin, Saad and Williams - were costly recruits. If we didn't have to overpay for these players, it would have been a different story.
Then we signed Crippa and Mckay - on decent $$$ as well
Who else in our list would have commanded a high salary - probably Doch & Charlie

How much of the salary cap on these 8 players already?
Someone has suggested that SPS may have been on $400K, if so then what about others in our best 22?

Getting Hewett at ~$450K per year will make it hard to get Cerra for $700K-$750K per year; and reduce our flexibility to deal with Walsh next major contract - as he is top 4 in the Brownlow and our best player after all!

 

[Justnetime]

Does anyone get nervous that our list strategy might be centred around Cripps. Given his 20/21 campaigns and form, his current contract is way overs. If you go his 18/19 years it is unders.

But thinking back to SoS who I‘m a big fan of, the Dow pick seems a logical pick more than anything else to partner Cripps lack of speed. Everything at that time screamed Dow due to Cripps being the mainstay midfielder.

Fast forward to now and everyone is talking about Hewett who I don’t mind as a footballer one way or the other. Not that excited about him but everyone is going on about his defensive running abilities and tackling. The defensive running capabilities along with midfield area minutes smacks of covering for Cripps who can’t catch a snail on defensive transition.

if Carlton have players trying to cover a weak transition midfield if just won’t work. If a player like Hewett tracks after Cripps man, then the opposition will just flick the ball to Hewlett’s direct opponent…say on the wing if he players there.

Given the contract they gave Cripps. the 6 years bit, I’m concerned. Right now, he is poor on offence with rushed kicks and he is horrendous on defensive running. But we may be trying to build a side around him when it should be….find your 30+ possessions and a goal or we go with other midfielders. Carlton need to be agile in their thinking as things have changed a lot for Cripps since 2018.

 

[thylacine60]

no

 

[Justnetime]

Yes?