Bye Bye Nobles

[Horizons_00]

Eh, no.

I feel like if you're going to do a mid-season firing, it had to be in the bye-week. You give the caretaker coach that extra week of preparation, and you give your playing group a little bit of a buffer from having to go out and play a game 4 days later after the coach is fired, etc.

Now that the bye has come and gone, you just finish the season from this point I reckon.

I truly believe that this playing list is a huge part of the problem, in that it's just an awful list. I don't anticipate we'll see much improvement (if any) under a caretaker coach, so at that point it just feels punitive and disruptive to sack the coach mid-season.

Do you think there is a reason we didn’t pull the trigger in the bye? I was personally hoping for a more invigorating effort on the weekend but it seems to be regressing even more. Maybe we didn’t have anyone to caretake.

We have seen this list play some outstanding footy and even under Noble last year so I am not sure the list would be most of the issue. I believe it rots from the top to the bottom. There is barely any effort or spirit and most players are regressing fast and hard.

Idk how anyone (not saying you) can see Noble hasn’t lost the group and is just delaying the inevitable. Hard pill to swallow but he may even step down if this review is brutal and honest enough. Will it help us in the short term? Nah, probably not. But whatever is happening RN is not working, not sure what’s the best path to take.

Hope we work it out asap

 

[William Caresser]

The great majority of coaches don't make it. Watters, Leppitch, Bolton, Sanderson, McCartney and on it goes. They last around 2.5 years and are never senior coaches again. These coaches know the odds are stacked against them but do it anyway. Inevitably they end up being sacked due to underperforming and/or disillusioned players and a dysfunctional game style. Noble had a crack, won't die wondering and wasn't up to it like many before - that's no disgrace.

 

[Too_many_talls]

It's going to happen, I think this Walsh process is just going to give the decision some legitimacy, as it won't then be seen as a knee jerk reaction. I'd guess Noble will resign a few days before the review ends - that seems to be how a lot of these processes go these days as the coach prefers to resign ahead of a sacking.

 

[shintemaster]

Eh, no.

I feel like if you're going to do a mid-season firing, it had to be in the bye-week. You give the caretaker coach that extra week of preparation, and you give your playing group a little bit of a buffer from having to go out and play a game 4 days later after the coach is fired, etc.

Now that the bye has come and gone, you just finish the season from this point I reckon.

I truly believe that this playing list is a huge part of the problem, in that it's just an awful list. I don't anticipate we'll see much improvement (if any) under a caretaker coach, so at that point it just feels punitive and disruptive to sack the coach mid-season.

Whilst I think this is a well reasoned assessment I also feel - strongly - that once a decision is made either way the change can and should happen immediately. I don't see any point waiting out the rest of the season once we have decided to make the call on Noble (whenever that may be). Personally I doubt a quick change and less preparation makes any real difference at all in our current situation. Whilst we can lose by more it realistically can't get much worse.

I don't agree with our point in bold. You don't see out the season for the sake of it once a call is made. It seems pointless to do so.

 

[Tas]

My biggest concern was that he was selected because he was a good communicator, his experience and leadership skills and so far these are the major things that there is a concern about him. He was brought in to give us some stability after the Shaw fiasco, who would have thought Shaw was the highlight of the last 2.5 years.

 

[gokangas]

Do you think there is a reason we didn’t pull the trigger in the bye? I was personally hoping for a more invigorating effort on the weekend but it seems to be regressing even more. Maybe we didn’t have anyone to caretake.

We have seen this list play some outstanding footy and even under Noble last year so I am not sure the list would be most of the issue. I believe it rots from the top to the bottom. There is barely any effort or spirit and most players are regressing fast and hard.

Idk how anyone (not saying you) can see Noble hasn’t lost the group and is just delaying the inevitable. Hard pill to swallow but he may even step down if this review is brutal and honest enough. Will it help us in the short term? Nah, probably not. But whatever is happening RN is not working, not sure what’s the best path to take.

Hope we work it out asap

The review was the bye trigger.

 

[Ardent Roo]

Eh, no.

I feel like if you're going to do a mid-season firing, it had to be in the bye-week. You give the caretaker coach that extra week of preparation, and you give your playing group a little bit of a buffer from having to go out and play a game 4 days later after the coach is fired, etc.

Now that the bye has come and gone, you just finish the season from this point I reckon.

I truly believe that this playing list is a huge part of the problem, in that it's just an awful list. I don't anticipate we'll see much improvement (if any) under a caretaker coach, so at that point it just feels punitive and disruptive to sack the coach mid-season.

Disagree.

I think if the Walsh review is heading in the direction that one of the recommendations will be a new coach, and that is shared with the Board, then they will act on it before the end of the season as they need to head off one of (hopefully the only...) reasons for players like JHF and CZ not re-signing.

That, or we could have our Dean Bailey (RIP) moment and the bad losses turn into the one un-acceptable loss and he goes on the Monday following.

Not that I agree with all he says, but Whatley's summation this morning was that the Walsh review will accelerate change, not delay it.

 

[shintemaster]

Not that I agree with all he says, but Whatley's summation this morning was that the Walsh review will accelerate change, not delay it.

I agree with that take.

Every week feels like a Dean Bailey moment to me at the moment. We are rarely genuinely competitive in games for more than a quarter or so per game. I honestly don't see what a 120 point loss does that 10 weeks of 60+ point losses doesn't. What number is enough 140, 150, 180? There's nothing fundamentally different - non competitive is non competitive.

 

[King Corey]

Eh, no.

I feel like if you're going to do a mid-season firing, it had to be in the bye-week. You give the caretaker coach that extra week of preparation, and you give your playing group a little bit of a buffer from having to go out and play a game 4 days later after the coach is fired, etc.

Now that the bye has come and gone, you just finish the season from this point I reckon.

I truly believe that this playing list is a huge part of the problem, in that it's just an awful list. I don't anticipate we'll see much improvement (if any) under a caretaker coach, so at that point it just feels punitive and disruptive to sack the coach mid-season.

Can see your logic. As per earlier today I would now move to finish David up - with a heavy heart. But if holding our current line is part of a reasoned approach to get a handle on things can respect that.

 

[Dan]

Sources are telling me that tomorrow will be Tuesday.

 

[Ischenko]

Shaw releasing the shackles after Scott was moved on got us playing exciting footy and we went on to beat very good sides that same year. Now obviously Shaw wasn’t the right long term option, but his work as the interim got us playing different footy. Or we could just go on doing the same and be belted by 10 goals every week… how exciting.

It is literally worth changing the coach at this point just to win a game. Like, literally actually for real. The players need it. We need it. The club as a whole need it — probably more than any time in our history maybe barring 2007. Sack him this week, get a caretaker in, win a couple of games, get a new coach and pray the psychological damage hasn’t rooted our most talented crop of young players since the 90s.

 

[zoomba23]

I think this all stems from the bake he gave after Brisbane and then the back tracking on that and apologising, for what may I ask? The fact that they were souless and he was asking for some buyin? FFS isnt that what team sport is all about? He lost them and he isnt going to get them back no matter what anyones says. You only have to look at the frustration in JHF in his last game and yesterdays display by TT (yes I know there were circumstances but people more attune than him should have realised he should not have played despite wanting to or not. yYesterday was not an isolated instance its been happening all year with him) to know that DN is not the answer. Do we stick with him till the end of the year and wear the consequences or do we part ways and see if we can get the Team to believe in themselves again. There might not be wins but a bit of spirit might go a long way to healing this fracture

He backtracked because of external pressure. It leaked to the media and, because of our form, became a shitstorm. He should've never been put into a position where he felt he had to apologise for that. 50 years ago that kind of spray was commonplace. If I were the coach after a performance like that I wouldn't have behaved any differently. All I see in that bake is a bloke desperate to be successful in his job, and upset that others aren't showing his level of passion. Whether there's a problem with the attitude of the players, whether they're all disillusioned by the gameplan, I'm not sure, but it's clear they don't buy in. Fwiw he doesn't come across to me as a bad man manager ala Neeld, but we aren't achieving anything with him at the helm. I feel bad for him more than angry or annoyed, but once the players aren't playing for you, you might as well pack your bags. And shortly after he packs his bags, I think a thorough examination of the attitudes of some of our players and the reasons for their soullessness is in order

 

[King Corey]

Sources are telling me that tomorrow will be Tuesday.

Not subtle enough.

 

[Ischenko]

Seems we’re pretty unanimous on this too. Lots of reasonable, regular good posters all in basic agreement. This can’t go on. He has to go.

 

[shintemaster]

Seems we’re pretty unanimous on this too. Lots of reasonable, regular good posters all in basic agreement. This can’t go on. He has to go.

I think it's at that point even though I don't hold Noble responsible for all our ills and feel that due to other stuff ups we have potentially made his 20% chance of being a long term coach into a 5% chance. That's not fair on him, but I'm not sure it changes anything now. Players often live and die by the sword based on the team's overall performance and so it goes with coaches at times.

 

[sutcliffe's hotel]

I think it's at that point even though I don't hold Noble responsible for all our ills and feel that due to other stuff ups we have potentially made his 20% chance of being a long term coach into a 5% chance. That's not fair on him, but I'm not sure it changes anything now. Players often live and die by the sword based on the team's overall performance and so it goes with coaches at times.

Ditto. Adelaide are woeful & they thrashed us.

If the Walsh review uncovers something else, who knows what, then I would expect tough decisions to be made & people to be moved on from the club.

 

[shintemaster]

Ditto. Adelaide are woeful & they thrashed us.

If the Walsh review uncovers something else, who knows what, then I would expect tough decisions to be made & people to be moved on from the club.

Not only that they thrashed us, they honestly looked like they knew exactly how to break us down. Most teams have done so, I'd suggest we have barely troubled a team outside of Sydney this year for most of a game, maybe Hawthorn before running out of legs / players. A few teams we've pushed hard for a quarter here or there (eg. Dogs) but honestly almost every team outside those first 2 have know how to break us before the game started. That's not sustainable not matter what players and personnel are available.

 

[Tas]

I truly believe that this playing list is a huge part of the problem, in that it's just an awful list. I don't anticipate we'll see much improvement (if any) under a caretaker coach, so at that point it just feels punitive and disruptive to sack the coach mid-season.

I think our list is a major problem because there doesn't seem to be a lot of science in terms of how it is being put together, we just take player X, Y or Z and just hope it works out.

For example, we have Cunnington, he is an elite extractor and contested beast, we then pushed Simpkin in the middle to play an inside role as well, but he doesn't have the physique for it. LDU was a good pickup, his ability to go through traffic and use the ball well is a good combo with an extractor like Cunners. Then we get Thomas, who is an even more offensive player, showed last year what he is capable of but he and LDU don't have the defensive instincts. So far none of the players we recruited are suited for a wing role. We also pissed away a first round pick on Polec who is afraid of his own shadow.

We also pick up Taylor and Scott in 2018, light bodied offensive players, neither has elite endurance, speed and kicking skills which is what you want to target as a wing, so kind of destined as a forward flank or bench midfield depth.

2019 was the second year in a row we traded off our first round pick, this time for a bunch of lesser picks, our pick ending up with Fremantle who took Serong with that pick. We take Comben, Mahony and Perez with second round picks. So far none have worked out, it isn't an ability issue, Comben has been injury prone, Perez had a LTI and Mahony has struggled to make a lot of impact so far. If you are small but are not very quick/agile you can get banged up pretty bad at AFL level.

We take Phillips and Powell as first rounders, Phillips is more a utility mid, he isn't going to be as inside as Cunners. Powell is another on-baller, good accumulator, not suited as a wing either, solid kick but not elite. Realistically his best role is a follower but that isn't how we play him, we just shove guys like Simpkin and Greenwood in those positions. We then take Lazzaro and Spicer in the second round, both are diminutive forwards.

2021 we take JHF obviously, he will be a power on-baller, not ready atm. We also took Goater who I think his best position is the midfielder, he has great speed, probably lacks the endurance of other elite prospects, he did play some good footy as a defender so I think that is the role we will use him in. Curtis looks promising as a forward. Haven't seen much of Bergman so far.

We have a lot of talent in the middle but it seems all hodgepodge, we don't really have a replacement for Cunners, the heir apparent has been out all year as well, Greenwood is second to the ball at almost every stoppage and Jy isn't built to play Cunner's role. We then have a lot of followers who aren't playing that role and zero wing men so we just shove in whomever there and we wonder why we can't transition the ball out of defensive 50.

We need to clean up the roles we are building for the future, what is the future makeup of out midfield? Phillips, LDU and JHF? Where does that leave Powell, Thomas or for that matter Taylor, Scott, etc. There have been good wing options we passed on in the last couple of drafts. This take the best player is bullshit if the best player every pick is a ruckman you aren't going to fill your list with ruckmen. At a certain point you need to recruit for needs as well.

Our major weakness is we have got such poor value out of our second round picks for some time now, we aren't producing even solid footballers out of them. We keep recruiting skinny runts that are going to take 4-5 years to even turn into an AFL footballer. The sad reality is we are getting done by clubs that field younger, less experienced sides, we aren't shit because we are young, we are shit because we are dysfunctional.

 

[Massive Unit]

The fact we didn't even have him on the shortlist to go after is very concerning. He had indicated on radio he was open to the job too. Then we had Clarko saying he'd coach us on 360 a couple of months ago.

We have 2 proven premiership coaches with undeniable records basically saying they want to be here and we are sitting with our thumbs up our arses. And then they wonder why supporters are disillusioned with the club.

I would be staggered if there are not several active discussions happening with managers right now to sound out individuals desire to take on the job.

An expectation of sacking Novle today and getting Clarko tomorrow is nothing short of naivety.

We are not privy to what discussions have happened or are currently happening.

FWIW - I "think" Noble is a dead man walking and part of Walsh's remit will be to assist in identifying what we need in his successor

 

[DunderHead]

Nobes will need to wear at least one more loss. No point dropping him only to head down to Geelong with a caretaker and essentially miss our opp for rebound win on what is essentially unwinnable

 

[Harris 10]

Eh, no.

I feel like if you're going to do a mid-season firing, it had to be in the bye-week. You give the caretaker coach that extra week of preparation, and you give your playing group a little bit of a buffer from having to go out and play a game 4 days later after the coach is fired, etc.

Now that the bye has come and gone, you just finish the season from this point I reckon.

I truly believe that this playing list is a huge part of the problem, in that it's just an awful list. I don't anticipate we'll see much improvement (if any) under a caretaker coach, so at that point it just feels punitive and disruptive to sack the coach mid-season.

Moving him on is the only answer and it has to be immediately.
A lot(not all) of the media pile on will stop, going by media reports large parts of the playing group will be relieved, we get a start on a replacement coach, the membership base will have something to get excited about.

8 more weeks of negative media about will he survive and disgruntled players will destroy the club more than it already has been.

 

[groo]

He backtracked because of external pressure. It leaked to the media and, because of our form, became a shitstorm. He should've never been put into a position where he felt he had to apologise for that. 50 years ago that kind of spray was commonplace. If I were the coach after a performance like that I wouldn't have behaved any differently. All I see in that bake is a bloke desperate to be successful in his job, and upset that others aren't showing his level of passion. Whether there's a problem with the attitude of the players, whether they're all disillusioned by the gameplan, I'm not sure, but it's clear they don't buy in. Fwiw he doesn't come across to me as a bad man manager ala Neeld, but we aren't achieving anything with him at the helm. I feel bad for him more than angry or annoyed, but once the players aren't playing for you, you might as well pack your bags. And shortly after he packs his bags, I think a thorough examination of the attitudes of some of our players and the reasons for their soullessness is in order

He missed the point that they were making. Why are the kids blamed for the performance but the senior players who play in positions to influence the match, are seemingly ( to noble only ) , performing their roles. It is the senior players that were letting the team down.

 

[Jeremy Jordan]

Maybe we have ourselves a Milton from Office Space occurring. We actually fired Noble weeks ago, but through a payroll clitch, he has still been getting paid and still thinks he is coach.

 

[leighlee13]

More chance of him resigning than being sacked. Club has the review as shelter right now.

I wonder if he is the type that would resign or he will stay until pushed (if this is what happens).

 

[Gumble Frankieton]

Not subtle enough.

Could of gone with … ‘sources tell me that Wednesday is going to be renamed Wokesday’.