Autopsy 2022 Rd 23 Choked again. Season Done.

[Coops93]

Agreed, thought it was obvious too. If Silvagni protested more I'd be inclined to believe that he was hard done by. Silvagni is a notable umpire protester too, not one to let a bad decision go without a little chat.

I think it got worse as the season went on too. I noticed in the last 6 rounds him giving away far more clumsy and frustration free kicks than I'd ever noticed before. In fact v Collingwood he gave away 5 free kicks, that's a killer from one player.

 

[bigblueboy]

Definitely Pies ahead now and they have done really really well but football is so fluid.

I think other coaches went to school on us after our great start to the season. The same thing 'should' happen with the Pies and maybe those 'game situation scenario' tactics they used to get over the line will be picked apart and negated by other clubs. The are definitely very high-risk high-reward tactics and possibly only valid when you are behind in the last quarter and essentially nothing to lose

In which case, McRae comes up with another plan - rinse and repeat.


I do like their speed off half-back and is the type of football you'd want in big finals in September.

Nope - contested footy wins finals.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Golf courses are a good place to hide a body. Chuck him in a bunker, no-one'll notice if you rake some sand over the top.

Or you can just trample him into the green facedown and jam the flagstick into his coit....

 

[Coops93]

I do agree with this, the only caveat to the free not given to Saad is that they'd score there anyway had Saad not been blocked. Ginnivan didn't need to do that, Elliot could've hit someone else 20m easily.

It's still frustrating, I'm just not prepared to suggest that the umpiring was the cause for our loss.

I'm not arguing that case just suggesting that whilst it was a free kick I think it has drawn contention and ire for the reasons I described. Just unfortunate timing that it was called in that moment.

You could argue that Jack could've quite easily blocked him in a way far less obvious. By just standing there in front of him as opposed to looking and bumping, for one, as I don't know if Cameron was getting there anyway. He didn't look to be trying to hit the contest all that hard so simply being between him and Cripps probably would've been enough.

Alas, just another clumsy effort in a big moment.

 

[Gethelred]

Free kick Collingwood…

Where is JSOS looking??

He holds his ground everyday of the week if he wanted to go for the ball…

You are absolutely right when you say that he was looking that way and didn't really have eyes for the ball. But an element of a block is actually putting yourself in the way, making contact of your own volition; Jack didn't do that at all, or are you telling me you think Quaynor didn't extend his arms there at all?

I don't like blocking free kicks. I think there's a huge amount of blocks that go completely unpaid, or only get paid when they happen to a) a marquee player, b) against an average or worse player, or c) against a player from a team lower on the ladder against a team higher. And this is not something that I think can be fixed without something like video referees adjudicating before a free is given in front of goal, akin to the reviews in League; before an ump can award a free kick in range of goal - let's say, within 50m - the umpire has to check upstairs to see if it was a legitimate free kick. If it isn't, ball it up. But that would further bog the game down; imagine, having one of these then a score review consecutively.

In the end, I come down on the side of just let teams block. It just becomes good play, and incentivises strength in a way the current game doesn't allow currently. Might see different body types playing AFL again, instead of the same 180-190cm lean athletes we have at the moment.

 

[Gethelred]

Or you can just trample him into the green facedown and jam the flagstick into his coit....

Or run him down with the cart.

The possibilities are endless!

 

[gadj1976]

that's simply false.

The Cripps reversal then the free at the other end to Johnson (who took a dive) was a 2 goal turnaround plus a momentum changer.

Stop kidding yourself.

It's easy to say that but what if Cripps kicks the goal and it goes back to the centre square? They might have got a centre break and got an easy goal. Maybe we would've defended it. Maybe he misses that set shot (more likely)?

This is the issue, too many "if's"

Go back to the start of the game and do the same 'what if' scenarios for every contentious decision and what you'll find is that the game could've been decided by a myriad of possibilities which can change a game. But if you do that, you'll never accept we weren't good enough when it came down to it.

 

[carlton_99]

It's easy to say that but what if Cripps kicks the goal and it goes back to the centre square? They might have got a centre break and got an easy goal. Maybe we would've defended it. Maybe he misses that set shot (more likely)?

This is the issue, too many "if's"

Go back to the start of the game and do the same 'what if' scenarios for every contentious decision and what you'll find is that the game could've been decided by a myriad of possibilities which can change a game. But if you do that, you'll never accept we weren't good enough when it came down to it.

One thing that is certain is despite any poor umpiring that may have occurred we still should have won the game. +54 contested possessions (first time a team has lost with a differential this large since 1999) +21 inside 50s +14 clearances +4 scoring shots +12 tackles i50. We did all this with 3/5 of our starting midfielders out as well. If we can add the effort and pressure we played with in the last two games to what we were doing game plan wise for most of 2022 it will take us a long way to no.17.

 

[katmanblue]

The Ginnivan block was just as blatant. Stopping Saad from competing in an aerial contest has always been illegal - really not sure what the umpire was thinking in this instance. The block comes so early as well

Especially when the ball is more than 5m away.

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[katmanblue]

Actually not false, but keep banging on as if it's the reason we lost the game

Not THE reason, A reason. Lots of small things are cumulative.

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[katmanblue]

I thought it was a free too, but it's one of those that happens 15 times a game and is never called, it's that the one that was finally called happened in such a moment.

Then the block of the other end of Ginnivan on Saad isn't called.

Both are frees, both aren't called 9 times out of 10, unfortunately our 1 time happened in a crucial moment and theirs didn't.

Yet both happen to favour one team.

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[jezzajay]

Chris Scott took a list in a premiership window and won a flag first year.

This list is in its premiership window and didn’t make the top 8. This list was built to be in its prime right now. The cherrys on top have been added over the last 2 years. It’s called a window for a reason. Cripps will be past his prime soon. It’s a fail. A spectacular one.

Respectfully disagree.
Have a look at our age demographic. We are a year or two away from that 'Premiership' window.
Compare our age demo to the teams in the top 4.

 

[Arr0w]

Respectfully disagree.
Have a look at our age demographic. We are a year or two away from that 'Premiership' window.
Compare our age demo to the teams in the top 4.

Moreso the top 8

 

[Sector 7G]

One thing that is certain is despite any poor umpiring that may have occurred we still should have won the game. +54 contested possessions (first time a team has lost with a differential this large since 1999) +21 inside 50s +14 clearances +4 scoring shots +12 tackles i50. We did all this with 3/5 of our starting midfielders out as well. If we can add the effort and pressure we played with in the last two games to what we were doing game plan wise for most of 2022 it will take us a long way to no.17.

Against good teams the Pies rely on teams kicking poorly. They got over Melbourne who kicked themselves out of it. Sydney carved them up last week. Geelong will do that in the first final.

The Pies game style won't stand up in September. Admittedly I didn't think the Tigers would in 17 but they had a Coleman Medalist at FF and Dusty put in the best season of footy in the past 20-30years. Tigers were a different proposition in 19/20 when Lynch joined the team.

 

[Stamos]

All Silvagni needed to do there was put his hands up and pretend he was going for the marking contest, he just shoved him in the side and didn't even pretend to contest the footy. They pay that.

Yes, some other questionable decisions, but why didn't our forwards follow Daicos or Quaynor out of defence? There were two occasions where Quaynor got a 1-2 and there was one where Daicos got three disposals in a single chain.

These moments are far more impactful.

You need to watch it again.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Nope - contested footy wins finals.

Need both - when you win the contested footy you have to something with it. Teams that move the ball fluidly and quickly do well in September as they get the ball quickly to the big forwards on the big ground.

We win contested ball but move the ball too slowly.

 

[gab213]

Chris Scott took a list in a premiership window and won a flag first year.

This list is in its premiership window and didn’t make the top 8. This list was built to be in its prime right now. The cherrys on top have been added over the last 2 years. It’s called a window for a reason. Cripps will be past his prime soon. It’s a fail. A spectacular one.

You can't seriously compare Carlton of 2022 with that Geelong team, that team was coming off 4 years of being right at the top of the tree, 2011 was their final shot

2007 - Premiership
2008 - Runners Up
2009 - Premiers
2010 - Preliminary Final


You can't compare where Geelong then was at the end of a very successful era to where this Carlton team is placed at the moment.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I do agree with this, the only caveat to the free not given to Saad is that they'd score there anyway had Saad not been blocked. Ginnivan didn't need to do that, Elliot could've hit someone else 20m easily.

It's still frustrating, I'm just not prepared to suggest that the umpiring was the cause for our loss.

Not sure I agree with that. To me, Saad would have had plenty of time and space to mark that had he not been blocked.
At the very least, he gets to the drop of the ball and halves or wins the contest. Did a lot of that this year, where he got to contests he had no right making it to, then proceeded to either get the ball over the line, disrupt a certain opposition possession, or just flat out win the contest.
It could have bought time for more defenders to get back and help out also.

 

[Stamos]

We lost because we weren’t composed when it mattered most. Same against the Dees. Even Vossy alluded to that.

The umpire wasn’t taking those kicks when we kicked 0 goals, 6 points in the last quarter.

If we’re pointing the finger at umpire we’re never going to become a really good team. Thing about blaming umpires is that it’s always very selective and generally ignores decisions that go our way throughout a match.

For what it’s worth, thought the players were awesome on Sunday. Sunny days ahead.


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You can acknowledge that we have ourselves to blame, we should have been more composed and nailed our chances, while also acknowledging that a number of terrible umpiring decisions effected the score.

 

[RedFury]

Yes as people say we were never going to win the flag this year, but I feel like the game or two of finals experience would have really helped the group moving forward. I think statistically most premiership teams have made finals at least once (usually more) in the 3 years prior to their flag.

This group has no idea about finals and what it takes. It would have been nice to get some experience into a bunch of players there.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

(to anyone knocking him for that pass) Go back and watch Durdin’s kick. Yes he should have hit up fisher, but that pass wasn’t horrible.

Curnow is one v one on the edge of the square standing boundary side protecting space in the pocket to lead. As he pushes off, Durdin kicks it to where he thinks he’s about to lead, but he doesn’t lead there, he moves inside (away from the boundary) and the Collingwood player reads the kick leaving curnow to take an uncontested mark.

The pass wasn't horrible. It was way way worse than that.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Don't think anyone here will watch a replay of this game LOL.

You know what? At 3/4 time I said to myself I hope to god we win this game so I can go home and experience that third quarter again. But given what happened, I cant experience that amazing high again without revisiting the low that followed it.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

It's easy to say that but what if Cripps kicks the goal and it goes back to the centre square? They might have got a centre break and got an easy goal. Maybe we would've defended it. Maybe he misses that set shot (more likely)?

This is the issue, too many "if's"

Go back to the start of the game and do the same 'what if' scenarios for every contentious decision and what you'll find is that the game could've been decided by a myriad of possibilities which can change a game. But if you do that, you'll never accept we weren't good enough when it came down to it.

Of course there are 'ifs', but it's also a 30 point lead!

It's all moot now granted.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

You need to watch it again.

Thanks for that, I did watch it again before commenting. Perhaps you should watch it again?

Clearly many here disagree with me, that's fine - perhaps my bias is against having a victim mentality. Our top end football is better than everyone in the competition but we are not able to sustain it for long periods of time. Our i50 connection is also an issue, we could've/should've put 5 goals through in the 2nd and 4th quarters too. We didn't because we created poor opportunities and squandered our genuine chances.

 

[Stamos]

Thanks for that, I did watch it again before commenting. Perhaps you should watch it again?

Clearly many here disagree with me, that's fine - perhaps my bias is against having a victim mentality. Our top end football is better than everyone in the competition but we are not able to sustain it for long periods of time. Our i50 connection is also an issue, we could've/should've put 5 goals through in the 2nd and 4th quarters too. We didn't because we created poor opportunities and squandered our genuine chances.

The 2nd part is irrelevant to Quaynor clearly pushing Jack into Cameron.

I don't understand what you're watching?
It's not a victim mentality. There's a video clearly showing what happened.