Moved Thread Should the AFL have a full pride round?

[Dynamics]

Depending on your definition of transitioning, between 3% and 0.15% of people who transition regret transitioning.

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence

Supplemental Digital Content is available in the text.There is an unknown percentage of transgender and gender non-confirming individuals who undergo gender-affirmation surgeries (GAS) that experiences regret. Regret could lead to physical and mental ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I acknowledge that this still leaves a subset of the population that regrets their transition, but 3% of what is already a small percentage of the population (39 from 10,000 individuals) is much lower than the binary you're proposing as equal.

That examples exist does not entail that those examples are representative of a wider population.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a read.

 

[Ricketz]

sounds like a you problem. you cited earlier that you think kids are pushed into the 'trans community' (whatever this is) and it is harmful. i would hazard a guess you have never spoken to a young transgender person to realise just how hard it is to obtain access to hormones / puberty blockers in australia, let alone reassignment surgery, even moreso when their parents do not support such a choice

i would also suggest you do some research as to the actual figures of transgender people who de-transition or regret transitioning in the first place before engaging on this topic again because you are spouting actively harmful talking points which do not reflect the reality of transgender people in australia

i dont really know what you are saying but if you are asking whether i respect others opinions i draw the line at doing so when those opinions inspire prejudice against others for inherent characteristics (skin colour, sexuality....)

I have a non-binary cousin. From the age of four they would argue with anyone who called them a boy, or little fella, that they were a girl. Their parents were Catholic (no longer), and they struggled with it for a few years. It was entirely evident though that their child truly felt and believed they were a girl. They did not push their child to be born with gender dysphoria, yet they copped criticism and abuse from ignorant people who think it is something you can teach.

Both the child, who is the sweetest little kid, and the parents copped horrendous abuse from strangers - but it was their supposed friends that hurt them the most.

That little child will face a very difficult childhood because of the ignorance of others. They are very lucky to have parents that love them unconditionally. I worry that they will be at risk of depression and a potential suicide risk, because they are intelligent, social and sensitive.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

You think the "movement" has gone too far? Like the race equality movement? Or the women's rights movement?

Of course we need to teach kids not to be bigots, that non-heterosexual or binary people are just as important as everyone else.
Your toxic attitude is why, because you can't be relied on to raise a decent member of society.

Yes, yes and if you are talking modern feminists then yes to answer your questions.

If the movement just stopped at that I don't have a issue with it like I said.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

Let’s be clear here, your objection isn’t because of the children…

Well what is it then?

 

[Jade]

Yes, yes and if you are talking modern feminists then yes to answer your questions.

If the movement just stopped at that I don't have a issue with it like I said.

Uh huh.

 

[Jade]

Well what is it then?

Gee let me think…

 

[Ricketz]

Because, both in this thread and the stupid Essendon CEO thread name calling from both sides began on page one. I reckon both sides would have got a punch in the mouth if they talked like that at my local.
A lot of shouting and very little sense in both threads

People with thin skins should be careful about who they pick a fight with. They might end up thrown out of the pub after losing a few of their own. Bouncers won't tolerate that sort of stuff.

 

[Stabby McGee]

People with thin skins should be careful about who they pick a fight with. They might end up thrown out of the pub after losing a few of their own. Bouncers won't tolerate that sort of stuff.

I think you are missing the point - both sides.

You are so gung ho to pump your chest you miss the bit that I'm the bloke in the corner wishing both sides would take it outside and leave me to finish my beer in peace.

 

[Sky]

I was going to say no because we don’t need another themed round but if it’ll piss off over 50’s religious bigots then I’m all for it

 

[EFL Boy]

Yes, yes and if you are talking modern feminists then yes to answer your questions.

If the movement just stopped at that I don't have a issue with it like I said.

So basically, as long as the minorities don't push their issues on the majority, there is no issue.

Got it.

 

[West Tiger]

May be they would think not to follow all aspects of their religion blindly.

So believe what they like in their religion and reject what they don't like? Why not just reject the religion then?

Shock horror. There are gay Muslims.

An "Islam" that's right where the "gay Muslim" is right is not Islam though.

 

[Ricketz]

There is a fine line between bullying and banter.

For me as a heterosexual male the thing that from a ‘taste’ perspective would most disgust me is the idea of a romantic physical interlude with say, my best mate. The thought of it makes me physically ill because I’m not remotely attracted to it. So human nature being what it is when we make fun of people, to me it would make sense when someone teases me to say something that pokes at that discomfort.

It’s human nature to interact with people particularly those with whom you have a comfortable rapport, to needle them about their foibles or their traits or their likes and dislikes etc. giving a teammate s**t for how much effort they’ve put into sculpting their beard because you KNOW they probably have - tell them it looks s**t and if it’s someone that knows you actually do care about them as demonstrated by your actions towards them in general and it’s not going to be taken the wrong way. You see it on this forum all the time: people copping s**t because they love a certain football team. If it’s given in jest with a subtext of knowledge that someone doesn’t REALLY think you are inferior because you support a certain team then it’s just banter. I hope that isn’t completely lost in the attempts to totally sanitize society

Honestly, how you can rationalise this behaviour is beyond me.

One, why do you even contemplate it? I have gay friends, I don't tell them what I do in the bedroom, and they don't tell me. I like them because they are good, funny people. I don't think about it, why would I?

Two, gay people look like any other cross-section of the community. Why would denigrating somebody through a bigoted association be acceptable? Substitute it for race - would you be happy if a person called you a derogatory name for an indigenous person because you have a tan? I have heard that in a footy change room a few times, and it was disgusting.

Thirdly, it's not just banter. Anyone who hears it might be adversely affected by it, because they may be LGBTQ or care about someone who is.

That is why we need a pride round.

 

[Jade]

So believe what they like in their religion and reject what they don't like? Why not just reject the religion then?

Sounds good to me.

 

[demondavey]

Now thats THE motherhood statement ...... you go looking for trouble, it will find you. In this case someone else to blame for human frailty.

No, it’s really not. I am not blaming any singular person for human frailty. It’s not really complicated.

 

[Zevon]

So believe what they like in their religion and reject what they don't like?

Most Christians I know do this on literally a daily basis to be fair.

 

[THECHIEFTON]

So basically, as long as the minorities don't push their issues on the majority, there is no issue.

Got it.

I said these movements have gone to far. So I don't support most of them anymore.

 

[West Tiger]

Sounds good to me.

But not to the "gay Muslims," even though you can offer them everything they want?

 

[Rusty Brookes]

An "Islam" that's right where the "gay Muslim" is right is not Islam though.

Says who?

Muslims for Progressive Values

www.mpvusa.org

All religion is open to intepretation.

 

[Ricketz]

Yes, yes and if you are talking modern feminists then yes to answer your questions.

If the movement just stopped at that I don't have a issue with it like I said.

Modern feminists? Gone too far? Because only one in four women experience sexual violence these days? The number should be higher?

You think race equality has gone too far? Because average life expectancy of indigenous people is about a decade less than a non-indigenous person? You think that gap should be more?

And the LGBTQ equality movement has gone too far? Because 58% of LGBTQ young people aged 14-21 had seriously considered suicide in the last 12 months? You think that number should be higher?

They haven't gone too far, they haven't nearly gone far enough.

 

[PhatBoy]

Honestly, how you can rationalise this behaviour is beyond me.

One, why do you even contemplate it? I have gay friends, I don't tell them what I do in the bedroom, and they don't tell me. I like them because they are good, funny people. I don't think about it, why would I?

Two, gay people look like any other cross-section of the community. Why would denigrating somebody through a bigoted association be acceptable? Substitute it for race - would you be happy if a person called you a derogatory name for an indigenous person because you have a tan? I have heard that in a footy change room a few times, and it was disgusting.

Thirdly, it's not just banter. Anyone who hears it might be adversely affected by it, because they may be LGBTQ or care about someone who is.

That is why we need a pride round.

Im not talking about gay people. I wouldn’t want to give s**t to a gay person for what they do in the bedroom I am talking about the idea that you can’t make a joke to someone about something they’re NOT into because it may offend someone who is.

 

[Superstar swan]

The only part of the wider discussion in society that I don't get is that we all talk about inclusion and diversity , yet as soon as someone suggests any sort if counter argument( provided its not personal, insulting,offensive etc) they are immediately lambasted as a a bigot etc. How are people meant to have healthy discussions about such topics when they live in fear of being persecuted for their views. Isn't that what we are trying to get away from ?

 

[Ricketz]

Im not talking about gay people. I wouldn’t want to give s**t to a gay person for what they do in the bedroom I am talking about the idea that you can’t make a joke to someone about something they’re NOT into because it may offend someone who is.

You are talking about gay people though. Possibly right in front of one of them, or somebody who knows one of them. Or even directly to them, because they don't tend to come out at a footy club or on a trade site.

It's not a joke to them. It's not even a joke to you - what is the funny bit about calling someone a p**fter?

 

[Ricketz]

I think you are missing the point - both sides.

You are so gung ho to pump your chest you miss the bit that I'm the bloke in the corner wishing both sides would take it outside and leave me to finish my beer in peace.

I honestly don't know why you frequent pubs and listen in to the blokes who are having these conversations?

 

[Ricketz]

The only part of the wider discussion in society that I don't get is that we all talk about inclusion and diversity , yet as soon as someone suggests any sort if counter argument( provided its not personal, insulting,offensive etc) they are immediately lambasted as a a bigot etc. How are people meant to have healthy discussions about such topics when they live in fear of being persecuted for their views. Isn't that what we are trying to get away from ?

Can you provide an example of such an argument that doesn't rest on either irrational religious dogma or personal prejudice?

 

[Lethality]

Modern feminists? Gone too far? Because only one in four women experience sexual violence these days? The number should be higher?

You think race equality has gone too far? Because average life expectancy of indigenous people is about a decade less than a non-indigenous person? You think that gap should be more?

If you go by life expectancy, then male life expectancy is about 5 years behind women, which isn't mentioned in your gender comparison

 

[Lethality]

Can you provide an example of such an argument that doesn't rest on either irrational religious dogma or personal prejudice?

Religious beliefs. It's easy for us to call them dogma, but if we are told that we respect religious beliefs, then at least call them religious beliefs.

In any case it's no reason to be personally abusive to someone.