NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[the big lebowski]

Read the article and the subsequent reporting. Not sure why you're commenting on this despite not having done so.

See I’m talking about extending that thought process from the article ………. Into reality

So, no the players weren’t physically separated against their will.

Ok

Now, assuming they went along with it but didn’t really want to, do you think they were incapable of making any form or contact with their girl friends?

They couldn’t buy a new phone? Borrow a mates? Direct message someone on Insta? Use a landline? Write an email? Drive to their house when not chained up?

Tell me how in reality hawthorn could enforce a no contact rule

 

[gouki88]

See I’m talking about extending that thought process from the article ………. Into reality

So, no the players weren’t physically separated against their will.

Ok

Now, assuming they went along with it but didn’t really want to, do you think they were incapable of making any form or contact with their girl friends?

They couldn’t buy a new phone? Borrow a mates? Direct message someone on Insta? Use a landline? Write an email? Drive to their house when not chained up?

Tell me how in reality hawthorn could enforce a no contact rule

Through the threat, implicit or explicit, that their career was hanging by a balance, or that it would displease their strongmen superiors. Isolation is such a common tool used in abusive relationships, and it is quite frightening that you are going to such lengths to undermine it.

 

[gouki88]

You got me, my agenda is to call out bigoted views.

You bastard!

 

[the big lebowski]

You got me, my agenda is to call out bigoted views.

I know all people are equal

My family background knows persecution based on race

I’m married to a black woman who I love and adore

If the allegations happened as described I would not want clarko coaching north

Now, I’m the real world, smart people will address issues based on specifics and not make blanket statements about people or situations without thinking about them first.

Ironically you are you’re friends in this thread are the prejudiced bigots. Incapable of individual thought and sense

 

[Maddo11]

So there is a power imbalance? And?

That stopped a player from writing an email? Bizarre

The players partner emailed newbold and he wiped his hands of it and buried it for a decade because he either didn't want to investigate or didn't believe that Clarko did anything wrong (either way, that's ****ed)

And then they watch Eddie **** up multiple times and not get sacked. Then Goodes stands up and gets harassed out of the game. Then a myriad of other reasons they decide to just put it behind them.

And then finally Hawthorn get someone to ask "hey what was your experience like? It can stay anonymous" and they think, maybe if i tell my story it'll help the next group of players coming though.

And then we're here today with muppets like you saying "well why didn't they just ignore them kek they're not children"

 

[the big lebowski]

Through the threat, implicit or explicit, that their career was hanging by a balance, or that it would displease their strongmen superiors. Isolation is such a common tool used in abusive relationships, and it is quite frightening that you are going to such lengths to undermi

But they were back living with their girlfriends within a couple of months

Doesn’t fit with an abusive person trying to isolate their victim from society.

Your explanation doesn’t stand up to reality imo.

 

[the big lebowski]

The players partner emailed newbold and he wiped his hands of it and buried it for a decade because he either didn't want to investigate or didn't believe that Clarko did anything wrong (either way, that's cactus)

And then they watch Eddie * up multiple times and not get sacked. Then Goodes stands up and gets harassed out of the game. Then a myriad of other reasons they decide to just put it behind them.

And then finally Hawthorn get someone to ask "hey what was your experience like? It can stay anonymous" and they think, maybe if i tell my story it'll help the next group of players coming though.

And then we're here today with muppets like you saying "well why didn't they just ignore them kek they're not children"

And the players association who the female met with? What were their thoughts?

 

[the big lebowski]

Anyway, I’ll leave you guys and your echo chamber. All the best

 

[Stars align]

None of us know what really happened.We don’t know what parameters were placed around the interviews undertaken by Egan…face to face in person,one on one zoom or in the presence of others or even over the phone.We don’t know how Jackson came across the report and how in turn he went about gathering his information.
I hope some good comes from the AFL investigation and results in the truth or best version of it being arrived at.
I hope understanding is gained and that more positive experiences will result for indigenous recruits.
Unfortunately the one thing I can say with a fair degree of certainty is that though there will most likely be more positive experiences for those recruits the harsh reality is that there will be less of them recruited in the short term to take advantage of the changes made.

 

[gouki88]

But they were back living with their girlfriends within a couple of months

Doesn’t fit with an abusive person trying to isolate their victim from society.

Your explanation doesn’t stand up to reality imo.

You just have no idea, none at all. Your definition of "reality" is nonsense - this is the reality that Aboriginal & Torres Strait Islander people have had to endure in this country for hundreds of years. Yet it's not good enough for you, because... you don't feel like it? Because it's bad for your footy club?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Unnamed hey…..

You want to believe it imo.

You equated police coming into indigenous homes and stealing children from their parents with advising a professional athlete to be professional.

Sure I can accept thinsgmoght lot have been handled as we would expect them to a decade later, but you are frothing for a villain.

Desperate for one infact.

Not one aspect of the stories makes sense

- he forced me to get an abortion, but we didn’t get an ablation, and then later with a different fetus we got an abortion

- despite medical advice that no one knows why a miscarriage happens, I can definitively tell what caused another ladies

- I was forced to cut contact with people, I was unable to use a phone, write an email, or use social media - sure

- the aflpa, cops, player manager were all aware of the horrors and did nothing

- we want to remain anonymous, so let’s talk to a jurno, implement out lawyer strategy etc all at a moments notice (or with orchestrated planning)

- why aren’t they lodging paperwork to sue the afl, hawthorn etc? Please tell me why they haven’t after 10 years. Please

I know exactly who the unnamed assistant is, and they have no reason to lie. They were once one of Clarkson’s best mates.

You’re effectively calling all the players liars, and telling Indigenous Australians who’ve referenced these allegations as being a call back to the same “good will” decisions that were behind the stolen generation as being completely wrong.

 

[ferball]

Wasn't Thomas criticised in the media and booed for much the same reasons that Jack Ginnivan was this year. - An act that was viewed as dirty and playing for free kicks?

He was described as a dog by a commentator.

Among many other things.

 

[Chief]

What about all the other assistants, who went on to long and successful careers?

You mean the ones that weren't turned off by the abuses they witnessed?

 

[ferball]

Great point, it really comes across as intentional deflection to focus on technicalities of our legal system.
If you come from the position that this case has shone a light on the systemic racism at Hawthorn and the AFL at large then I see no point discussing the legal system either as that too is inherently biased by design against first nations people.

You know something. You people should be discussing exactly that, at every opportunity.

Every ****en day for the rest of your lives or until it changes. Its great we've actually discussed this particular situation for nearly 400 pages but as soon as its over that gonna be the end of this anti racism stuff. If all you non indigenous people appalled at these allegations spent as much time talking about how fuvked things are for blackfellas in many parts of this country when it comes to treatment by the legal system and doing more than talking when you can then things might actually change for once.

Whatever the outcome of this please don't let it stop here.

 

[sr36]

It's counterintuitive because it is batshit crazy.

So I walk into a bar, get riled at something I don't like, start a fight and beat up 10 guys. Really bad of me. Disgraceful.

But wait. There's more! Two of them are indigenous persons. Therefore their broken noses are a result of racism. Really?

Beam me up Scottie.

No that's not what I'm saying. You're only punching certain individuals - not everyone. If your criteria is males under the height of 173cm, there's a fair chance that you'll punch a disproportionate number of Vietnamese men.

If you are a footy coach and you believe in the concept of that "idle minds are the devil's workshop" so you have a blanket rule that no one can associate with people who aren't in full time work or study, Your motivation isn't racist, but the outcome of your rule will fall more heavily on players who come from sections of society with higher rates of unemployment - in this case, your players with strong ties to indigenous communities.

If the stories are true, god knows what criteria these coaches were using to intervene so dangerously in the live's of these players, but there's a possibility that it made players with strong links to indigenous communities more likely to become victims - eg. a racist outcome.

 

[ferball]

Yeah, but he's not denying that they did go down.

Maybe Clarkson's denying things like this:

He ("Ian") felt he had no choice. "He (Clarkson) told me to kill my unborn kid."

Maybe Clarkson feels he didn't tell him ("Ian") to "kill his unborn kid."

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Maybe Clarkson's denying things like this:

He ("Ian") felt he had no choice. "He (Clarkson) told me to kill my unborn kid."

Maybe Clarkson feels he didn't tell him ("Ian") to "kill his unborn kid."

I'm certain he's denying that.

 

[sr36]

He was described as a dog by a commentator.

Among many other things.

Ling called it a "dog act" when he KO'd someone with a front on hip and shoulder on someone bent over picking up the ball. I liked him as a player, but that was a shit act from LT. Is dog act racist? I wouldn't have thought so.

 

[Ricketz]

It is only irrelevant to the discussions at hand if you want to control the direction of the discussions at hand to a prejudged outcome and prevent any deviation from that.

I don't want to control anything. It's a classic white lives matter deflection. Sure they do. Just not in this instance. This is about the Hawthorn Racism Review and the subsequent ABC article.

 

[Ricketz]

Unnamed hey…..

You want to believe it imo.

You equated police coming into indigenous homes and stealing children from their parents with advising a professional athlete to be professional.

Sure I can accept thinsgmoght lot have been handled as we would expect them to a decade later, but you are frothing for a villain.

Desperate for one infact.

Not one aspect of the stories makes sense

- he forced me to get an abortion, but we didn’t get an ablation, and then later with a different fetus we got an abortion

- despite medical advice that no one knows why a miscarriage happens, I can definitively tell what caused another ladies

- I was forced to cut contact with people, I was unable to use a phone, write an email, or use social media - sure

- the aflpa, cops, player manager were all aware of the horrors and did nothing

- we want to remain anonymous, so let’s talk to a jurno, implement out lawyer strategy etc all at a moments notice (or with orchestrated planning)

- why aren’t they lodging paperwork to sue the afl, hawthorn etc? Please tell me why they haven’t after 10 years. Please

You're totally misrepresenting a situation you know next to nothing about.

 

[Ricketz]

Ironically no one is willing to discuss any of the points I’ve raised other than to abuse me or spit one line catch phrases.

Because they are not worth discussing. It doesn't really matter whether you think it makes sense. The AFL are taking the allegations seriously, the Hawthorn Football Club are taking the allegations seriously, and most importantly WorkSafe Victoria is taking the allegations seriously.

 

[Ricketz]

Thank you for the utterly irrelevant association.

So just to be clear. Your contention is that even in the case where the alleged actions might be shown to be NOT determined in their application by racial factors, then there is still racism in the actions?

Wow. What a brave new world we live in.

Removing a young indigenous man from his family and cultural environment so he can conform to a white man's ideals draws no parallels with you?

None at all? Just white noise in your head when you hear that?

 

[ferball]

I'm not objecting to anything. But I am also not entertaining something that is irrelevant to the discussions at hand.

Racism isn't just about motivations for actions. Systemic racism can produce racist actions without motivation. Now, I am just using this as an example, I am not saying it is what happened - but say Clarkson got one of the families to move to a more affluent suburb because his motivation was that it provided a quieter, more stable environment. That may be true, but it still constitutes a racist action because the family is made to feel that their people are not up to the standards acceptable to Clarkson.

This is classism, not racism. Tho the two are intertwined sure.

Clarkson can distance himself from the stolen generation policies that removed generational wisdom. He can distance himself from the current inequities in educational and employment opportunities they experience. He can claim he was doing it with the best of intentions - but the action itself is still racist.

I have friends who are dead because they couldn't reconcile being members of the stolen generation. I am struggling to see how you can liken those accusations to what they went thru.

 

[Ricketz]

Just regurgitating one liners like victim
Blaming so you don’t have to think critically

Mate, nothing you have written here constitutes critical thinking. You were victim blaming when you questioned why they waited ten years to report it. When you questioned why they didn't go to the police. When you questioned why they didn't sue.

Seriously, your entire argument is victim blaming.

 

[Ricketz]

See I’m talking about extending that thought process from the article ………. Into reality

So, no the players weren’t physically separated against their will.

Ok

Now, assuming they went along with it but didn’t really want to, do you think they were incapable of making any form or contact with their girl friends?

They couldn’t buy a new phone? Borrow a mates? Direct message someone on Insta? Use a landline? Write an email? Drive to their house when not chained up?

Tell me how in reality hawthorn could enforce a no contact rule

It's not into reality - it's all in your imagination. Unbelievable.