Review Round 1, 2023 - Port Adelaide vs. Brisbane Lions

[mpal6]

Comeback Kings

The Lions staged the eighth greatest comeback in the history of the game

www.lions.com.au

2013 was an interesting season during the dark times where we were named "come back kings". It didn't matter how deep the deficit was and how well opposition were playing, we just won't give up that year. Even players from other clubs say "gosh, those guys will never stop trying, you just know they'll be on you till the siren". We lacked superstars, quality, depth etc that season but what we didn't lack was grit.

That was a fun year to follow the club inspite of knowing we were horribly out of pace with the top clubs.

 

[martinson]

Clug had a stinker on Saturday but I'm not having this idea that he isn't good in the middle (know that isn't necessarily your point - my understanding of your thinking is that he's a better wing than our other options). Frankly we can't afford for him to play wing given the lack of depth in the middle, and if he's not the first receiver in close we don't have an inside mid that regularly hits a target.

I'm a bit with Britzoon that we could use him on a wing for periods in games. If we had another M/Fder who was better. Matho and Lyons aren't that type of player. Throwing Ashcroft in and expecting him to do it is likewise just hoping at this point. All that's left then is Rayner. After Saturday taking him out of the backline leaves us vulnerable there. Especially if we expect someone like Joyce to step up.

We've got a bit of thinking to do before Friday night. Hopefully we can get the mix right with what we've got and more importantly they all play to their ability.

 

[martinson]

Of all the talk about what was uncharacteristic the one that stood out was McCluggage who rarely turns in an ordinary game and never one as bad as that in my memory.

So more than happy to give him a mulligan.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Sounds like my mate picked the right afternoon for his party, so didn't have to watch this game.
Always dissapointing when the same old centre clearance problems are still there.
And then the old kicking it forward down the line crap.
When will we ever learn?
To me it could be hubris within the club circles where noone listens to outside noise. Stick to the course no matter what.
That is one thing I have learned , that outside noise usually has some truth about it even when we think we know better.
Always been a concern when Fages and the players always maintained we had the gameplan , just not exicuting it well enough.
Clearly turning the possession over with the territory battle kicking it forward to a contest , amatuer hour.
Harris as captain says it all imo hubris at the highest level, mate you were terrible some of those games last year, but comes out and says I don't listen to outside comments. But that was last year I guess.
I hope they all got a dose of humility from our most seasoned players down to Wilmot.
Time for some of these guys to stop goofing around.

Back to our center clearances.
From recent memory we have been at our best when the rolling maul was working , say when typically Bev was at the coalface, numbers at the contest.
Even then Unfortunately better teams kept enough numbers wide to receive , that has always been our problem since Vossy. What do we do?
Maybe some of our list just don't possess the ability to win a chase when it's required, no mungrel , no real pace, no desire to run to space to receive, who knows.
Then the captains.
So what do we do name co captains, one being Neile where he gets tagged and bullied out of contests and Andrews who has struggled to hold his own in recent years.
Like I say didn't watch the game and won't bother , so only going on what has been said and what has passed before.
Time to play their hearts out , and Forte to come in .

 

[Dalions]

Quite a telling line in Fages Presser after the game.

“All of the things that we pride ourselves on, were ahh, not evident”.

 

[martinson]

Quite a telling line in Fages Presser after the game.

“All off the things that we pride ourselves on were ahh not evident”.

Yes. All. Not evident.

i.e. we didn't turn up.

 

[25 years on]

I feel sorry for the line breaking speedsters that we so desperately needed watching the ball as a Dan Rich kick out sails over their heads on its way to Alir

 

[lioninthesand]

Well obviously they will lose again and some losses will be worse than others, but this was a historically bad loss for us. I don't expect a loss of this magnitude will happen again this year.

Yeah I am not trying to be dramatic or emotional about it. It’s just if our defensive structures and cohesion can be that bad once, they will be again.

Still think there will be great weeks in there too though, not writing us off.

 

[p4p1]

The game isn't the reason in not a fan of Lachie as captain.

I'm a fan of the heart on the sleeve, go down with the ship type leaders who put others before their own success. They can be tricky and sometimes cross the decorum line and be too much 'one of the boys', but I think they bring an inclusive energy and belief that lifts teams above their combined skill level.

Lachie is a driven perfectionist who set personal goals and shows team mates how to get the best out of themselves by example. Definately a leader of the quiet, determined type.

Just don't think he has the lifting energy that ignites and fires up the group belief that this team needs.

I don't disagree, if Matho was a better footballer he would be an ideal captain IMO.
Personally I feel that Lachie will be a good captain though, not great but good.

 

[p4p1]

I'm not sold on O to be honest- really good honest toiler he is, but I think we need a ruckman like Stef Martin was that could make that second and third contest like a lot of modern day ruckman. O is a second ruckman and in my eyes, Fort more resembles Stef, just a much better kick than Stef. A combo of those would be great.

Unless a good player leaves and we get some trade currency, I think there is quite a bit we need - a better ruck, another KPD (Adams should retire for his LT wellbeing and Darcy is to injured prone), a wingman and could always do with gun mids - i guess all clubs need it tho but that would be my shopping list.

I question whether you should play a non-elite ruckman instead of another big body mid who takes ruck contests. If you're going to get smashed in the ruck, might as well try and make up for it as soon as the ball hits the ground. IIRC Tigers were pretty good at that for a while.

 

[p4p1]

I feel sorry for the line breaking speedsters that we so desperately needed watching the ball as a Dan Rich kick out sails over their heads on its way to Alir

It was hard to watch. When others did take the kick in, it at least looked like we tried something different. Even if it didn't always come off. I would prefer that than kicking long to a contest we knew we were going to lose.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I question whether you should play a non-elite ruckman instead of another big body mid who takes ruck contests. If you're going to get smashed in the ruck, might as well try and make up for it as soon as the ball hits the ground. IIRC Tigers were pretty good at that for a while.

Josh Dunkley come on down?

 

[Section 5]

Clug had a stinker on Saturday but I'm not having this idea that he isn't good in the middle (know that isn't necessarily your point - my understanding of your thinking is that he's a better wing than our other options). Frankly we can't afford for him to play wing given the lack of depth in the middle, and if he's not the first receiver in close we don't have an inside mid that regularly hits a target.

We lost center clearances by 2 and stoppage clearance by 7. Not great but not a complete disaster by our midfield in that one area.

As people would know i have been saying for 2 years wings are our biggest issue
Berry our best and only wing last year. That really was his 1st wing year, and he did fairly well considering.
I was and still are hoping for a better year from Berry in 2023. But he really is not a natural wing in the first place.
He plays well enough and also keeps his opponent honest.
The problem is we need 3 in total.
I don't think anyone has said Clug is not good in the middle. He is already top 25 mid in the comp in my opinion.
The issue for me is will we be a better team by having a better spread of experience in our 3 wing players at this point in time.

Even when fit, Berry is a reasonably low possession wing, average last year 18 disposals. Ah Chee is similar but lower at 12 disposals.
Last week Berry (underdone) 15 disposals no tackles 73%TOG.
Wilmot (3 AFL games) first AFL game on the wing 11 disposal 1 tackle 77% TOG.
Tunstill (3 AFL games) 7 disposals no tackles 52% TOG - Subbed off
Prior 2 disposals no tackles 23% TOG - Subbed on.

So, in total the 3 wings (inc Prior) got 35 disposals and 1 tackle.
You can't blame the kids, it was the selections that made us very vulnerable on one line, before the game even started.

As an example, for this week i would prefer:

Lyons (or Zorko/Rayner/) in middle, Clugg on the wing, Berry the other wing and Answerth (or Wilmot/Prior/Cockatoo/Madden/McKenna) on the bench as wing relief.

Over Clug in the middle, Berry wing, Wilmot wing with Prior/Tunstill on the bench wing relief.

I am not a big fan of Dev playing wing as he also is not suited.

 

[M Malice]

I feel sorry for the line breaking speedsters that we so desperately needed watching the ball as a Dan Rich kick out sails over their heads on its way to Alir

Yes, having a look at the poll I am surprised that 34 people gave Richy a vote in their bests, he had 26 disposals but 16 of them were kick ins, personally I thought Richy had a stinker.... like most of his team mates.

 

[Grasshopper17]

We lost center clearances by 2 and stoppage clearance by 7. Not great but not a complete disaster by our midfield in that one area.

I think it's only a matter of time before we start seeing better stats around clearances. Big difference between a clearance win where you storm unimpeded out the front vs a clearance where sure you win the ball and you go forward but via an ugly hack kick out towards the wing.

Contested possession arguably a more accurate indicator of what happened on Saturday. -34 on that count was worse than only West Coast.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Someone at Fox Sports didn't watch the game and only went by the stats sheet.

 

[mpal6]

View attachment 1634852

Someone at Fox Sports didn't watch the game and only went by the stats sheet.

Yep I read this one too and thought the same thing -- "there's your stats only watching reporter"

 

[M Malice]

View attachment 1634852

Someone at Fox Sports didn't watch the game and only went by the stats sheet.

A lot of that 1010 meters gained would be long down the line kicks from a kick out, each one would have been 60-70 meters, 10-15 meter run + 50-60 meter kick.

 

[Grasshopper17]

View attachment 1634852

Someone at Fox Sports didn't watch the game and only went by the stats sheet.

So did the Twitterverse

 

[p4p1]

A lot of that 1010 meters gained would be long down the line kicks from a kick out, each one would have been 60-70 meters, 10-15 meter run + 50-60 meter kick.

It's a flawed stat if the ball is marked or crumbed by the opposition as well. It's definitely not gained meterage if after the kick it comes straight back.

 

[FeastOrFamine]

So did the Twitterverse

View attachment 1634865

He certainly was a game changer - 26 junk disposals which gave us no advantage whatsoever, and to top it off a goal gifted to us by Dixon.

Love Richie but I'd rather see him have 9 disposals which are entirely comprised of bullet kicks that go lace out to a forward as opposed to a game were he racks up a kilometer of meters gained and has little impact on the contest besides launching it to the same spot every kick out.

 

[RoyBoy17]

We lost center clearances by 2 and stoppage clearance by 7. Not great but not a complete disaster by our midfield in that one area.

As people would know i have been saying for 2 years wings are our biggest issue
Berry our best and only wing last year. That really was his 1st wing year, and he did fairly well considering.
I was and still are hoping for a better year from Berry in 2023. But he really is not a natural wing in the first place.
He plays well enough and also keeps his opponent honest.
The problem is we need 3 in total.
I don't think anyone has said Clug is not good in the middle. He is already top 25 mid in the comp in my opinion.
The issue for me is will we be a better team by having a better spread of experience in our 3 wing players at this point in time.

Even when fit, Berry is a reasonably low possession wing, average last year 18 disposals. Ah Chee is similar but lower at 12 disposals.
Last week Berry (underdone) 15 disposals no tackles 73%TOG.
Wilmot (3 AFL games) first AFL game on the wing 11 disposal 1 tackle 77% TOG.
Tunstill (3 AFL games) 7 disposals no tackles 52% TOG - Subbed off
Prior 2 disposals no tackles 23% TOG - Subbed on.

So, in total the 3 wings (inc Prior) got 35 disposals and 1 tackle.
You can't blame the kids, it was the selections that made us very vulnerable on one line, before the game even started.

As an example, for this week i would prefer:

Lyons (or Zorko/Rayner/) in middle, Clugg on the wing, Berry the other wing and Answerth (or Wilmot/Prior/Cockatoo/Madden/McKenna) on the bench as wing relief.

Over Clug in the middle, Berry wing, Wilmot wing with Prior/Tunstill on the bench wing relief.

I am not a big fan of Dev playing wing as he also is not suited.

I agree I think the wings are a huge issue and have been for a long time. Just no outside run and class from those positions. Opposition wingman from good sides have an absolute field day against us.

Answerth is not the answer on the wing though. Can’t kick. Was absolutely hopeless in that position in the prelim.

Fletcher may be the one in time. McCluggage could defs play there more and I think Prior is ok in that spot.

Didn’t mind them trying Wilmot on a wing round 1 but would like to see him just stay at half back for now. That’s his niche and is actually good at stopping his direct opponent.

It would also help if our mids could win a clean centre clearance for a change.

 

[Lace Out]

We should play without wings,the cupboard is bare anyway.

 

[25 years on]

When their big fwd are on top of our defence, why do we keep kicking to a contest which give them a good chance of sending the ball strait back?
The same at the front, if Alir is on top of our fwds why do we keep kicking the ball, to a contest in the fwd 50?

 

[CarterS]

This believed their own hype stuff is a bit concerning if its a reflection of the character of the group.