Review Round 1, 2023 - Port Adelaide vs. Brisbane Lions

[Dalions]

This one has just popped up on my Insta feed.

Obviously Dunks has taken a pretty big knock during the game on the weekend.

 

[Quested]

Reading through this thread, there are issues with our defence, mids, wings, rucks and on. It's crazy how good it felt preseason acquiring some fantastic talent, but very quickly came down to earth. I'm a long way from writing us off after this one game, it's a long season. But I'm really hoping for more heart, more cohesion and more effort in the coming weeks and months.

 

[martinson]

Reading through this thread, there are issues with our defence, mids, wings, rucks and on. It's crazy how good it felt preseason acquiring some fantastic talent, but very quickly came down to earth. I'm a long way from writing us off after this one game, it's a long season. But I'm really hoping for more heart, more cohesion and more effort in the coming weeks and months.

It's fine bringing in a couple of players. But unless Bailey ,Rayner , Hipwood , McCluggage, even Daniher ,Starcevich ,Andrews plus a few others take the next step and become dominant players it doesn't matter.

Our biggest improvement should be in the 22 -27 year olds already in there.

 

[Sanchez365]

The bashing of Rich here is maybe a bit overblown. I'm not going to go around saying he had an amazing game or was even a positive, but I don't think his disposal was as bad as people here are making out. He even tried to straighten up a few times kicking out and it didn't work out. Kinda like everything we tried on that day.

Personally the only players that showed anything positive to me was Rayner and McKenna, but maybe only for half a quarter each.

As others have pointed out I would love to see us actually put players in their best positions (McLug wing, Dev inside, Prior on ground, Wilmot half back etc). However it's just not going to happen under Fagan. Fingers crossed I'm surprised on Thursday night.

 

[Section 5]

I agree I think the wings are a huge issue and have been for a long time. Just no outside run and class from those positions. Opposition wingman from good sides have an absolute field day against us.

Answerth is not the answer on the wing though. Can’t kick. Was absolutely hopeless in that position in the prelim.

Fletcher may be the one in time. McCluggage could defs play there more and I think Prior is ok in that spot.

Didn’t mind them trying Wilmot on a wing round 1 but would like to see him just stay at half back for now. That’s his niche and is actually good at stopping his direct opponent.

It would also help if our mids could win a clean centre clearance for a change.

I don't mind the wing relief being a little inexperienced as long as the other two are experienced players one being top tier (McCluggage).
So, Wilmot/Prior/Tunstill would be okay as wing relief.
I mentioned Answerth because he will make it a contest and not let his opponent get an easy ball. He may come in for Coleman's position anyhow.
The other options i had were possible tryouts being Cockatoo, Madden. McKenna none of them play wing either but they each bring a different skillset.
I think they could all play that wing relief role, and some can also play defense and forward.

No reason why we could not try something different other than our standard on the bench player positions.
Standard: Mid - Mid/Fwd -Wing Relief- Def
Change to: Mid - Mid/Fwd- Wing/Def - Def/Wing

Your options for getting more players on our current list opens up a bit.
You could then run with two of these on the bench at W/D & D/W.
Answerth, Coleman, McKenna, Cockatoo, Wilmot, Prior, Madden, Rayner even Starcevich.

 

[Section 5]

This one has just popped up on my Insta feed.

Obviously Dunks has taken a pretty big knock during the game on the weekend.

That was Coleman he hit should have got 1 week just for being an x Dog player.

 

[briztoon]

We lost center clearances by 2 and stoppage clearance by 7. Not great but not a complete disaster by our midfield in that one area.

As people would know i have been saying for 2 years wings are our biggest issue
Berry our best and only wing last year. That really was his 1st wing year, and he did fairly well considering.
I was and still are hoping for a better year from Berry in 2023. But he really is not a natural wing in the first place.
He plays well enough and also keeps his opponent honest.
The problem is we need 3 in total.
I don't think anyone has said Clug is not good in the middle. He is already top 25 mid in the comp in my opinion.
The issue for me is will we be a better team by having a better spread of experience in our 3 wing players at this point in time.

Even when fit, Berry is a reasonably low possession wing, average last year 18 disposals. Ah Chee is similar but lower at 12 disposals.
Last week Berry (underdone) 15 disposals no tackles 73%TOG.
Wilmot (3 AFL games) first AFL game on the wing 11 disposal 1 tackle 77% TOG.
Tunstill (3 AFL games) 7 disposals no tackles 52% TOG - Subbed off
Prior 2 disposals no tackles 23% TOG - Subbed on.

So, in total the 3 wings (inc Prior) got 35 disposals and 1 tackle.
You can't blame the kids, it was the selections that made us very vulnerable on one line, before the game even started.

As an example, for this week i would prefer:

Lyons (or Zorko/Rayner/) in middle, Clugg on the wing, Berry the other wing and Answerth (or Wilmot/Prior/Cockatoo/Madden/McKenna) on the bench as wing relief.

Over Clug in the middle, Berry wing, Wilmot wing with Prior/Tunstill on the bench wing relief.

I am not a big fan of Dev playing wing as he also is not suited.

If we don't play through our wings, they're going to get f-all disposals. And we barely play through our wings.

Most of their positions will be in our defensive 50 or forward 50, when they have rolled through to play behind our defensive or offensive set up. This was particularly noticeable watching Wilmot on the weekend. Our fat side winger covers so much ground.

This is one thing that frustrates me, when people complain about Ah Chee not racking up possessions when he plays wing. The ONLY winger we ever play through is Berry. It doesn't matter who the other wingers are, we almost completely neglect them, to the point that it really looks like a coaching instruction. Their role is to play defense and do the team things.

 

[Dalions]

That was Coleman he hit should have got 1 week just for being an x Dog player.

I was fuming too much to pick up on the incidentals.

 

[martinson]

If we don't play through our wings, they're going to get f-all disposals. And we barely play through our wings.

Most of their positions will be in our defensive 50 or forward 50, when they have rolled through to play behind our defensive or offensive set up. This was particularly noticeable watching Wilmot on the weekend. Our fat side winger covers so much ground.

This is one thing that frustrates me, when people complain about Ah Chee not racking up possessions when he plays wing. The ONLY winger we ever play through is Berry. It doesn't matter who the other wingers are, we almost completely neglect them, to the point that it really looks like a coaching instruction. Their role is to play defense and do the team things.

Ah Chee played his role perfectly when he was on the wing. Even better when he played forward, at least he was accountable when the opposition tried to exit.

We have too many players who in their heads see their role as to do something special and if they can't do that or it's not their day they suffer a lapse in energy.

 

[LionsMaw]

But this is exactly it! The way we PLAYED was in a manner that DEMANDS we win one on one contests, whether that's in the air or on the ground. But our body types no longer suit that physical style of game. Didn't matter whether it was a second year midfielder manhandling blokes 5-10 years older than him, or Dixon destroying Andrews (after spending basically 4 years at the bottom of his pocket).

But noooo let's work on improving our run instead.

View attachment 1634356

So it's either all the coaches deciding "let's physically condition our players to play a very team-oriented style of game which couples on-ball pressure with hard tracking back inside defensive 50 to maintain a strong zone presence", and then saying "you know what, everyone just play on your man, simples". OR the game plan has been put in place and soundly practiced all summer, and the players are simply not capable of or are choosing not to follow it in the heat of the moment.

The second one seems far more obvious but with the heat some of our coaches cop on this forum, perhaps it's hard to know. It all looked pretty simple against Geelong at Springfield... Did Port go to town on that tape and completely work it out after a single game? Or is it actually too complicated and the players literally are confused? Or is the plan physically impossible to put into practice?

I don't have these answers... Just trying to put in place sort of a framework for what happened beyond simply "there was insufficient effort".

It looked simple against Geelong because they weren't trying. And ofc were down some star players. No one should be thinking the practice match against the cats was indicative of anything.

 

[M Malice]

Hodgey wasn't impressed >

Hodge roasts former club for “embarrassing to watch” performance in Round 1

Hodge believes the Lions may have got ahead of themselves after taking a 12-point lead into half-time and a pre-season of being hyped as premiership contenders.

“This one (occasion) just looked like a team who thought they were going to do it. They came up against a team who had a lot more intensity, every time Port had the ball they had a free person to pass it to.

“The Lions didn’t want to man up and it was embarrassing to watch the way they played with the list that they have, but then you look at the intensity of Port Adelaide… (they would) be pretty happy.

“The system’s good when the attitude’s good,” he added.

“When the attitude is poor the system’s poor. It’s tough when you know a lot of these guys… it looked like the attitude wasn’t there.

“They were going to walk out there and do what they wanted and walk away with a win… their system, when they’re up and about, their system is fine.

“So I’ve got it down to their attitude.”
_____________________________________________

Even though we were up at half time I was saying to my son at the time how the hell are we in front let alone even close to Port, the score line at half time flattered us in the extreme IMO, we were poor the whole game barring a 10-15 burst in the 2nd quarter.

 

[CarterS]

Yep, attitude and work rate. And as someone else said, our game plan relies on winning the footy first, if we don't do that, we get smashed. Has been an issue for a while now. We look a million dollars if it comes off. Thought we fixed it at half time against Melbourne in the final??

 

[Bucking Beads]

Luke Hodge is spot on. We need some more honest and abrupt feedback for this playing group. It certainly doesn't seem like they get it from our coaching staff or leadership group. There hasn't been enough players held accountable for these sorts of performances

 

[Gadzorks]

I want Hodge as a assistant coach on sideline at games.

Bloody media paying him loads of money to commentate.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Luke Hodge is spot on. We need some more honest and abrupt feedback for this playing group. It certainly doesn't seem like they get it from our coaching staff or leadership group. There hasn't been enough players held accountable for these sorts of performances

We need our Carlton 2001 moment. Hopefully Saturday's press conference is a sign it's on its way, if Saturday was not indeed it.

 

[Thomasno]

View attachment 1634852

Someone at Fox Sports didn't watch the game and only went by the stats sheet.

I thought Josh Gabelich worked at afl.com?

 

[Thomasno]

I want Hodge as a assistant coach on sideline at games.

Bloody media paying him loads of money to commentate.

**** oath, we need to throw the kitchen sink at him to get him on the payroll as an AC. The best we’ve looked in the last 6 years was still when he was down back calling the shots and getting everyone in position.

 

[Section 5]

If we don't play through our wings, they're going to get f-all disposals. And we barely play through our wings.

Most of their positions will be in our defensive 50 or forward 50, when they have rolled through to play behind our defensive or offensive set up. This was particularly noticeable watching Wilmot on the weekend. Our fat side winger covers so much ground.

This is one thing that frustrates me, when people complain about Ah Chee not racking up possessions when he plays wing. The ONLY winger we ever play through is Berry. It doesn't matter who the other wingers are, we almost completely neglect them, to the point that it really looks like a coaching instruction. Their role is to play defense and do the team things.

The bolded appears to be the case to me also.
But being on the outside we are only guessing.
Playing through the wing really is determined in my view by who is playing wing.
The stronger your first 2 picked wingers are the more likely you use them be they fat side or not.
The fat side wing is the most likely way to change play through the middle along with other players of course.

Do you go via the middle if Wilmot/Prior/Tunstill presents probably not. So, a kick down the line.
But if McCluggage/Berry presents you are more likely to do so.

This applies to any lower skilled player on any team list.
Players are more likely to pass to a player leading/sitting in a hole unattended, if they are a Dunkley/Cripps/Patracca than lesser skilled inexperienced players.

Fagan knows the capabilities of Ah Chee and the others and thinks a defense type wing may get the job done most weeks.
We need to balance the attack and defense part of a wingers job and having 2 good players on the wing and a capable wing relief will help heaps.
We can cover McCluggage in the middle but for some reason Fagan chooses to leave our 3 wings (midfielders) a very weak point.
At the very least a very weak point to advance further than a PF

Disagree with you regarding Ah Chee and his low numbers.
No matter where he played be it the Suns Forward/Midfield or all over the place with us.

Career Season Averages​ Callum Ah Chee Year Team GM K H D M G B T HO FF FA GA I50 CL CG R50 BL 2022​ Lions​ 21 *​ 6.3​ 5.3​ 11.6​ 3.5​ 0.4​ 0.3​ 1.7​ 0​ 0.5​ 0.9​ 0.2​ 1.5​ 0.5​ 1.8​ 1.0​ ​ 2021​ Lions​ 21 *​ 4.9​ 4.6​ 9.5​ 1.6​ 0.3​ 0​ 2.8​ 0​ 0.2​ 0.9​ 0.4​ 1.6​ 0.6​ 1.9​ 0.5​ ​ 2020​ Lions​ 18​ 7.7​ 3.8​ 11.5​ 3.5​ 0.2​ 0.2​ 2.9​ 0​ 0.5​ 0.8​ 0.1​ 1.9​ 0.6​ 2.6​ 1.8​ ​ 2019​ Suns​ 1​ 11.0​ 6.0​ 17.0​ 5.0​ 0​ 0​ 2.0​ 0​ 0​ 2.0​ 0​ 3.0​ 4.0​ 2.0​ 2.0​ ​ 2018​ Suns​ 14​ 9.1​ 5.5​ 14.6​ 3.6​ 0.2​ 0.4​ 2.6​ 0​ 0.9​ 1.2​ 0.4​ 2.2​ 0.6​ 3.1​ 1.8​ ​ 2017​ Suns​ 14​ 6.1​ 5.3​ 11.4​ 2.4​ 0.9​ 0.2​ 3.1​ 0​ 0.8​ 1.1​ 0.4​ 1.7​ 0.4​ 2.6​ 0.6​ ​ 2016​ Suns​ 16​ 5.3​ 7.8​ 13.1​ 2.9​ 0.6​ 0.6​ 3.1​ 0​ 0.9​ 0.5​ 0.5​ 2.2​ 1.1​ 1.6​ 0.3​ ​ Career​ 105 *​ 6.5​ 5.3​ 11.8​ 2.9​ 0.4​ 0.3​ 2.6​ 0​ 0.6​ 0.9​ 0.3​ 1.9​ 0.6​ 2.2​ 1.0​ ​

* Includes 1 game as unused substitute, 3 games as activated substitute, and 1 game subbed off.

 

[twhowler]

I am always open-minded. I could deal with McCluggage going back and doing some wing. All about balancing our assets i guess.

You would hope Berry would improve and is a decent wing.

Ah Chee maybe deserves another shot?

Answerth i am big NO on for wing, but i do think we might need him as a lock-down defender.

Dev i do think shows some good attributes - sneaks forward for goals, goes back to mark in defence. Doesn't get enough of the ball yet.

I actually think McKenna could be good. Wilmot looked a bit lost and skinny i would have him backline.

Ashcroft seems to be going in there as a default wing but has he played any wing? As others have noted it's a specialist position.

Prior had a great match there last year v dogs. could we worth a try?

Fletcher is the big hope. An afl development coach reckoned he was not far behind Ashcroft as a prospect. Might be EXACTLY what we need in terms of position too.

It's wild how many names we (and the club!) are throwing up for wing:

Robertson, Ah Chee, McCluggage, Berry, Ashcroft, Coleman, Prior, Sharp, Fletcher, Tunstill, Bailey, Answerth, Wilmot, Mckenna...

You would think be the time the season had started we had a good idea of who we were backing in for the role but seemingly we didn't.

I reckon we need to play through the wings more and pick slightly bigger bodies while maintain pace:

Berry / McKenna / Coleman

 

[beardancer]

Richy bombing to the wing is fine if you've got someone who can actually mark it.

None of our forwards can mark.

Our Ruckman is a very average mark.

 

[dlanod]

With all this chat about wingers, I think instead we really should be taking a step back. Most teams don't set up with such a rigid wing structure as we do, and we're seeing the downside of that. Most stack a combination of hand ball winners and burst players and put them all right in and on the contest. Keeping a player or two out leaves us shorthanded, and rarely is the winger in a position to impact the play - the opposition tend to try to force the ball straight forward rather than spread these days, and trying to tackle in the open field is very very difficult (as seen by the number of broken arm tackles from a sidestep). I don't think it's going to happen, but I'd rather see some flexibility there to be honest as well as more focus on winning or halving the contested ball even if it means letting the ball spread once we've lost it.

 

[Thomasno]

With all this chat about wingers, I think instead we really should be taking a step back. Most teams don't set up with such a rigid wing structure as we do, and we're seeing the downside of that. Most stack a combination of hand ball winners and burst players and put them all right in and on the contest. Keeping a player or two out leaves us shorthanded, and rarely is the winger in a position to impact the play - the opposition tend to try to force the ball straight forward rather than spread these days, and trying to tackle in the open field is very very difficult (as seen by the number of broken arm tackles from a sidestep). I don't think it's going to happen, but I'd rather see some flexibility there to be honest as well as more focus on winning or halving the contested ball even if it means letting the ball spread once we've lost it.

Based purely on what I saw on Saturday, I disagree. Where we were cut up was having everyone drawn into the pack trying to win the ball, which meant every time the ball went out it either went straight to the port player set up to receive, or was free to be scooped up by said player anyway.

 

[mpal6]

I was watching some clips in lions facebook (like McKenna goal for example) and the celebrations / cheering were all a bit muted. I felt the same for the first Ashcroft goal. for Horne-Francis first goal the port players pretty much came from everywhere, mobbing him.

Is there a camaraderie or bonding issue between the current group? Do they really like playing for, playing with each other? One loss and so many questions.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I was watching some clips in lions facebook (like McKenna goal for example) and the celebrations / cheering were all a bit muted. I felt the same for the first Ashcroft goal. for Horne-Francis first goal the port players pretty much came from everywhere, mobbing him.

Is there a camaraderie or bonding issue between the current group? Do they really like playing for, playing with each other? One loss and so many questions.

Maybe like us they're focussed on the bigger picture

Another season of winning 2 out of every 3 games doesn't mean much to them

 

[KissKiss]

If we don't play through our wings, they're going to get f-all disposals. And we barely play through our wings.

Most of their positions will be in our defensive 50 or forward 50, when they have rolled through to play behind our defensive or offensive set up. This was particularly noticeable watching Wilmot on the weekend. Our fat side winger covers so much ground.

This is one thing that frustrates me, when people complain about Ah Chee not racking up possessions when he plays wing. The ONLY winger we ever play through is Berry. It doesn't matter who the other wingers are, we almost completely neglect them, to the point that it really looks like a coaching instruction. Their role is to play defense and do the team things.

We barely use Berry as an option from what I've seen. Even last year you would see him make a big lead into space and one of the backs would just sit and wait for the space to get filled for ages before going long down the line. But you are right the junior wingers get used even less. I massively suspect its a tactical decision.

But I do really question its the coaching position on where they set up. On the weekend Port kept being able to pick their man outside the contest in a mile of space. We would generally hack the ball out to no where or forward to get intercepted. We dont have the forwards to contest a mark like that all day and we seem to be coaching the wings to cover the wrong spots too often against the best teams