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List Mgmt. 2023 GWS Giants List Management - Academy, Free Agent, Trade, Draft

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Nov 23, 2015
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Trade Period, October 6–18
  • Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
  • Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm
Quiet Period, October 19–November 20
  • Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
  • List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
  • Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
  • Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
  • List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm


Here's the list of GWS players who are out of contract in 2023 (I'll progressively cross them out as they re-sign):
  • Lachie ASH
  • Callan WARD (Free Agent)
  • Brayden PREUSS
  • Tom GREEN
  • Finn CALLAGHAN
  • Lachlan KEEFFE (Free Agent)
  • Jake RICCARDI
  • Harry HIMMELBERG (Free Agent)
  • Cam FLEETON - delisted (25/9/23)
  • Matt FLYNN (Free Agent) - signed by West Coast as an Unrestricted Free Agent
  • Xavier O'HALLORAN
  • Jack BUCKLEY
  • Callum BROWN
Rookie lists:
  • Phil DAVIS (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
  • Jacob WEHR (Free agent)
  • Dan LLOYD (Free Agent) - retiring at end of 2023 season
  • Cooper HAMILTON
  • Wade DERKSEN
  • Nick MADDEN (Cat B) - assumed re-signed due to 2 sources of info
  • Jason GILBEE (Cat B) - delisted (25/9/23)
Current list sizes (for when we get to list/draft/trade speculation):
  • main list = 36 minus 3 (Fleeton, Flynn + Kennedy delisted with a view to be re-selected in the rookie draft)
  • rookie A = 6 minus 2 (Davis, Lloyd)
  • rookie B = 2 minus 1 (Gilbee)
  • total = 44 minus 5
This is the future pick spreadsheet that comes into play only at trade time, as future picks are used in end of season (2023) trading:


Here's the 2023 AFL Academy Squad, so these (roughly) represent the best players for next year as they stand now:

2023 NAB AFL ACADEMY​

NAMESURNAMESTATESTATE LEAGUE CLUBCOMMUNITY CLUB
LachlanCaborNSW/ACTSydney Swans AcademyShellharbour
NateCaddyVIC MNorthern KnightsYarrambat
JackCallinanTASTasmania DevilsClarence
CaidenClearyNSW/ACTSydney Swans AcademySydney University
DanielCurtinWAClaremontWest Coast
JackDeleanSASouth AdelaideReynella
ZaneDuursmaVIC CGippsland PowerFoster
MitchellEdwardsWAPeel ThunderSouth Mandurah
WilliamGreenVIC MNorthern KnightsNorthcote
RileyHardemanWASwan DistrictsCaversham
WilliamLorenzVIC MOakleigh ChargersBoroondara Hawks
KaneMcAuliffeSANorth AdelaideCentral Augusta
ColbyMcKercherTASTasmania DevilsLaunceston
AshtonMoirSAGlenelgPlympton
ConnorO'SullivanNSW/ACTMurray BushrangersAlbury
WilliamPattonSAWest AdelaideMitcham
NathanPhilactidesVIC MOakleigh ChargersBlackburn
EthanReadQLDGold Coast Suns AcademyPalm Beach Currumbin
ArcherReidVIC CGippsland PowerInverloch-Kongwak
HarleyReidVIC CBendigo PioneersTongala
ArchieRobertsVIC MSandringham DragonsHampton Rovers
JakeRogersQLDGold Coast Suns AcademyBroadbeach
RyleySandersTASSandringham DragonsNorth Launceston
CooperSimpsonVIC CDandenong StingraysMount Martha
GeorgeStevensVIC CGWV RebelsSouth Warrnambool
KoltynTholstrupWASubiacoNewtown-Condingup
OrlandoTurnerNTWest AdelaideSouth Alice Springs
JedWalterQLDGold Coast Suns AcademyPalm Beach Currumbin
NickWatsonVIC MEastern RangesEast Ringwood
DarcyWilsonVIC CMurray BushrangersWangaratta Rovers

Happy speculating for 2023!

EDIT: 11/12/22 - Added Free Agent status to OOC player list
EDIT: 24/2/23 - Crossed out Tom Green from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo!!) & Added 2023 Coates Talent League Fixture Link
EDIT: 27/2/23 - Crossed out Finn Callaghan from OOC player list! (Woo Hoo Hoo!!!)
EDIT: 27/4/23 - Crossed out Jacob Wehr from OOC player list
EDIT: 10/5/23 - Crossed out Jack Buckley from OOC player list :thumbsu:
EDIT: 9/7/23 - Crossed out Callum Brown from OOC player list
EDIT: 18/7/23 - Crossed out Lachie Ash from OOC player list
EDIT: 20/7/23 - Crossed out Xavier O'Halloran from OOC player list
EDIT: 3/8/23 - Crossed out Harry Himmelberg from OOC player list
EDIT: 9/8/23 - Crossed out Wade Derksen from OOC player list
EDIT: 17/8/23 - Noted Dan Lloyd retiring at end of season
EDIT: 19/8/23 - Crossed out Jake Riccardi from OOC player list
EDIT: 28/8/23 - Noted Phil Davis retiring at end of season
EDIT: 25/9/23 - Noted Cam Fleeton & Jason Gilbee delisted
EDIT: 4/10/23 - Noted Flynn, Preuss & Keeffe situations
EDIT: 9/10/23 - Updated Flynn to WCE, removed Preuss from OOC player list
EDIT: 12/10/23 - Updated Madden with 2 sources of information
EDIT: 19/10/23 - Updated Keeffe & Hamilton re-signed
EDIT: 31/10/23 - adjusted main list numbers with Adam Kennedy delisting (with a view to be re-selected in rookie draft)
 
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Brave New World said:
Richmond’s first-round pick is already in the Giants’ keeping so if Himmelberg left they would have three top-15 picks in an upcoming superdraft.
Click to expand...
But our pick is going to be 17 (sorry, I have us losing in the GF to the Lions for some reason)? Where's the other top 15 pick coming from?
 
dlanod said:
But our pick is going to be 17 (sorry, I have us losing in the GF to the Lions for some reason)? Where's the other top 15 pick coming from?
Click to expand...
We're going to package up 18 with a 36 and and future 2nd (also 36 most likely) for 15 ;)
 
GWS Goose said:
We're going to package up 18 with a 36 and and future 2nd (also 36 most likely) for 15 ;)
Click to expand...
True, there's probably going to be at least one father/son bid.
 
Brave New World said:
From an article today by Jon Ralph dealing with general draft/trade matters:

"BATTLE OF THE BRIDGE HEATS UP OFF-FIELD

Sydney’s determination to be active in the trade market has them registering interest in cross-town swingman Harry Himmelberg.

Himmelberg took a mark of the year contender in the Giants’ round 1 victory over Adelaide but has been used back since the halfway mark of 2022 despite his unerring accuracy as a forward.

GWS is keen to keep him and believes he is seriously considering staying.

But given his free agency status clubs like Adelaide and Sydney will assess his market worth.

The Giants would not match a deal worth well over $700,000, which would also trigger first-round compensation.

Richmond’s first-round pick is already in the Giants’ keeping so if Himmelberg left they would have three top-15 picks in an upcoming superdraft.

But they would far prefer securing Himmelberg given his unique skillset at a club that has much of the salary cap tied up in elite midfielders."
Click to expand...
I hope HH stays with us. Sydney is the only AFL club that hasn’t got an ex-GWS player directly, so hopefully history repeats!
 

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MelbourneGWS said:
I hope HH stays with us. Sydney is the only AFL club that hasn’t got an ex-GWS player directly, so hopefully history repeats!
Click to expand...
I think mote then any other club, Swans love getting a player for free. Look at both Tippett ( screwing the crows as they did) and Franklin.
Also I think there chances of winning a flag from 2024 to 2028 are alot better than Richmond/ Geelong, so Harry might go to Swans as they have a better combination of potential to win a flag and available $ $ than most Vic clubs.
 
This from today’s media:

“Top 50 Coates Talent League draft rankings after Round 1

By Chris Cavanagh

News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom

28 March 2023

A classy midfielder who is also a tackling machine has starred in the opening round of the Coates Talent League season.

Harvey Thomas, who is part of the Greater Western Sydney Academy, recorded a massive 190 ranking points in his side’s opening round match against the Northern Knights.

Thomas logged 30 disposals at 73.33 efficiency, as well as six marks, three clearances and two score assists.

But where he really stood out was in the tackling department.

Thomas laid a whopping 17 tackles in a tough seven-point loss to the Knights in the competition which was formerly known as the NAB League.

A top draft prospect this year, Thomas had played for Team Murphy in the Under 17 Futures game at the MCG on AFL Grand Final Day last year and gathered 17 disposals and six marks.

Another club-linked player in Sydney Swans Academy member Indhi Kirk also shone brightly in the opening round with 186 ranking points.

Kirk, who is the son of former Swans’ champion Brett Kirk, logged 28 disposals, seven marks, seven score involvements, seven tackles and one goal in a win over the Western Jets.

Kirk nominated for last year’s draft but was overlooked by Sydney as a father-son prospect.

He played one VFL game for Sydney last year in addition to four under-18 games with the club’s Academy side.

Meanwhile, expected No. 1 draft pick Harley Reid got his season off to a strong start for the Bendigo Pioneers as he recorded 149 ranking points in a 16-point loss to the Greater Western Victoria Rebels.

Playing a midfield-forward role, Reid logged 21 disposals (15 contested), six clearances, four marks, four tackles, seven score involvements and two goals.

COATES TALENT LEAGUE ROUND 1 RESULTS

Northern Knights 5.19 (49) d GWS Academy 6.6 (42)

COATES TALENT LEAGUE TOP 50 RANKINGS AFTER ROUND 1

Ranking, Player, Club, Position, 2023 Games, 2023 Ave. KFC SuperCoach Points

1. Harvey Thomas (GWS Academy), MID, 1 game, 190 points

2. Indhi Kirk (Sydney Swans Academy), MID-FWD, 1 game, 186 points

30. Daniel Gauci (GWS Academy), MID, 1 game, 119 points

41. Jackson Savage (GWS Academy), MID, 1 game, 112 points”.



P.S. I included young Kirk in the abridged article as given what happened with Harry Rowston last draft, I could imagine a case of karma; where a highly rated ‘mature’ NSW prospect, possibly being no longer eligible for father-son, was taken by the other mob?
 
Probably nothing to be alarmed if legit- Ash just being cautious and seeing how he fits under Kingsley’s system.

“After the Giants locked away Tom Green and Finn Callaghan recently, their attention turned to Ash. However, the running defender has also parked contract chats with the club, according to journalist Josh Gabelich. Although returning to his preferred position of half back, Ash is willing to wait out the next few months under the new direction from Adam Kingsley and see where he sits”

 

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MelbourneGWS said:
Probably nothing to be alarmed if legit- Ash just being cautious and seeing how he fits under Kingsley’s system.

“After the Giants locked away Tom Green and Finn Callaghan recently, their attention turned to Ash. However, the running defender has also parked contract chats with the club, according to journalist Josh Gabelich. Although returning to his preferred position of half back, Ash is willing to wait out the next few months under the new direction from Adam Kingsley and see where he sits”

Click to expand...
He can’t claim lack of opportunity
 
I would interpret this as Ashe seeing an opportunity to impress in a position where he feels more comfortable, and hence drive up his contract $. That's not unreasonable from a player perspective ... hopefully he and HH sign up in the end.
 
Based on this article in the AFL website, our club seems confident of re-signing Ash, and is willing to give him the time to make his decision. They had the same confidence about re-signing Callaghan and Green, so hopefully this track record continues!

YOUNG GIANT NEXT PRIORITY​

GREATER Western Sydney will turn its attention to re-signing dashing defender Lachie Ash, but the young gun has parked contract talks for now.

The Giants have locked away two top-ten picks in the past month – Tom Green and Finn Callaghan – but now the 2019 No.4 pick is a clear priority for GWS boss Jason McCartney.

Ash is understood to not be in a rush to put pen to paper on a new deal, but there aren't the same fears the club had with Tanner Bruhn this time last year.

zSbS94EQ.jpg

The 21-year-old was moved around a lot in his first three seasons, playing in attack, on a wing and even as a tagger at times. But new senior coach Adam Kingsley has used him in his preferred position at half-back to start 2023.

Ash is happy in Sydney and settled at the Giants, but wants to get some runs on the board across the first couple of months under a new regime before negotiating a new contract.

Greater Western Sydney has lost a bevy of first-round picks across its history, including Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper last October, but there is a confidence internally that Ash will re-sign when the time is right. – Josh Gabelich
www.afl.com.au

Eagle wants more, Dee set for deal, teen in cricket's sights

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au
 
MelbourneGWS said:
Based on this article in the AFL website, our club seems confident of re-signing Ash, and is willing to give him the time to make his decision. They had the same confidence about re-signing Callaghan and Green, so hopefully this track record continues!
Click to expand...
Same confidence publically for players who left too, so it's not much of a sign one way or another
 
dlanod said:
Same confidence publically for players who left too, so it's not much of a sign one way or another
Click to expand...
Not really. Most times when they have said ithey are confident they have stayed. Been very few surprise leaves.
 
GWS Goose said:
Not really. Most times when they have said ithey are confident they have stayed. Been very few surprise leaves.
Click to expand...
Disagree - at this stage of the year we've had reports that we were confident of re-signing most players who left, whether that's Treloar or Cameron or even Bruhn and the likes. It's only later in the year that you start to see less confident reports when it becomes "not a surprise".
 

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Mentioned it in my recap of the game yesterday but think we're in a pretty tricky situation with HH atm his first 3 games really haven't been up to scratch and he just hasn't been involved enough hitting the scoreboard or even as a linking option higher up the ground. You always have the choice of playing him as a defender but with how good Buckley and Taylor have performed he can't be a KPD for us so he'd have to be the third tall, I think Haynes has looked better each week and was quite encouraged by him yesterday so that's difficult to move him, in isolation you'd probably take HH over Haynes because intercepting ability is probably similar at this point and HH is a far more advanced distributor but Haynes is on a pretty big contract so to leave him out of the side would be impossible to have that much money committed to a player and have them playing 2s. Which means that either Idun makes way for Haynes to play his role (not sure he's well suited for that) or Idun gets dropped which would be quite stiff considering he's been perfectly fine to start the year and I think has improved from last year.

Taylor, Buckley, HH, Idun, Haynes, Ash, Cumming and Whitfield is one too many defenders so that means someone has to move positions, Whitfield to the wing makes the most sense out of the options, maybe you could experiment with Cumming but we haven't seen that before. That also might leave you a bit slow as well, swapping out one of the smalls for a big like HH. I don't think it hurts you on the rebound like adding a tall for small would traditionally do due to how strong HH is as ball user but it could leave you a bit exposed to nippy quick smalls.

HH's next contract whether it's going to be with us or someone else is going to be the biggest contract of his career, he's at a point where he can really cash in and with how well McStay did on the open market last year HH is going to get at least that'd I'd imagine. If he's going to be with us long term at least positionally I think it makes the most sense as a forward but whether he's someone we want to be tied to for the next 5+ years I'm not too sure. In defence I"m not sure where he fits as a defender either with Leek's development further complicating things, are they both battling for the third tall position, unless something drastic happens Buckley and Taylor should be the KPD for the next decade. Maybe if Cadman and Gruzewski are good to go by year 3 his life as a third forward makes a lot of sense but that's banking on the development of 2 KPF players in which development is notoriously delicate.

So I guess all up I'm not sure what to do with HH, he's not as bad as he looks right now because we have a mountain of evidence that says otherwise but he's someone that has always had issues with staying consistently involved in games, so locking him up long term also has it concerns. At his best I think he's a really great complimentary key forward that can be an important part of a forward line and at his worst well... it's what he is right now, not kicking enough goals nor linking up with others around the ground.
 
Hendo_21 said:
Mentioned it in my recap of the game yesterday but think we're in a pretty tricky situation with HH atm his first 3 games really haven't been up to scratch and he just hasn't been involved enough hitting the scoreboard or even as a linking option higher up the ground. You always have the choice of playing him as a defender but with how good Buckley and Taylor have performed he can't be a KPD for us so he'd have to be the third tall, I think Haynes has looked better each week and was quite encouraged by him yesterday so that's difficult to move him, in isolation you'd probably take HH over Haynes because intercepting ability is probably similar at this point and HH is a far more advanced distributor but Haynes is on a pretty big contract so to leave him out of the side would be impossible to have that much money committed to a player and have them playing 2s. Which means that either Idun makes way for Haynes to play his role (not sure he's well suited for that) or Idun gets dropped which would be quite stiff considering he's been perfectly fine to start the year and I think has improved from last year.

Taylor, Buckley, HH, Idun, Haynes, Ash, Cumming and Whitfield is one too many defenders so that means someone has to move positions, Whitfield to the wing makes the most sense out of the options, maybe you could experiment with Cumming but we haven't seen that before. That also might leave you a bit slow as well, swapping out one of the smalls for a big like HH. I don't think it hurts you on the rebound like adding a tall for small would traditionally do due to how strong HH is as ball user but it could leave you a bit exposed to nippy quick smalls.

HH's next contract whether it's going to be with us or someone else is going to be the biggest contract of his career, he's at a point where he can really cash in and with how well McStay did on the open market last year HH is going to get at least that'd I'd imagine. If he's going to be with us long term at least positionally I think it makes the most sense as a forward but whether he's someone we want to be tied to for the next 5+ years I'm not too sure. In defence I"m not sure where he fits as a defender either with Leek's development further complicating things, are they both battling for the third tall position, unless something drastic happens Buckley and Taylor should be the KPD for the next decade. Maybe if Cadman and Gruzewski are good to go by year 3 his life as a third forward makes a lot of sense but that's banking on the development of 2 KPF players in which development is notoriously delicate.

So I guess all up I'm not sure what to do with HH, he's not as bad as he looks right now because we have a mountain of evidence that says otherwise but he's someone that has always had issues with staying consistently involved in games, so locking him up long term also has it concerns. At his best I think he's a really great complimentary key forward that can be an important part of a forward line and at his worst well... it's what he is right now, not kicking enough goals nor linking up with others around the ground.
Click to expand...
I thought that Kingsley was of the view that HH (and Ward for that matter) would be playing forward and Ash would be in the backline. I don’t think HH needs to play back especially with Leek’s development, and the presence of Taylor, Buckley, Cumming, Ash, Whitfield, Haynes and Idun. Idun is also with us till 2026 and Haynes is one of our 5 highest paid players.

I agree that this is HH’s best chance to earn $ and we will have to compete with other clubs to re-sign him. There were reports that Sydney were also interested in him. Noting that Buckley and Ash are out of contract this year as well, re-signing HH will give us more options if one of them leaves. I think Buckley will repay our faith in him when he was injured and stay with us, but we will have to compete hard for Ash’s signature?

With Riccardi not playing to his potential, and Cadman yet to debut, I think we should persevere with HH as a forward and try our best to re-sign him.
 
Hendo_21 said:
Haynes is on a pretty big contract so to leave him out of the side would be impossible to have that much money committed to a player and have them playing 2s.
Click to expand...
Sunk cost fallacy. If Haynes isn't good enough to be playing seniors, we're actively hurting the team by selecting him.
 
MelbourneGWS said:
I thought that Kingsley was of the view that HH (and Ward for that matter) would be playing forward and Ash would be in the backline. I don’t think HH needs to play back especially with Leek’s development, and the presence of Taylor, Buckley, Cumming, Ash, Whitfield, Haynes and Idun. Idun is also with us till 2026 and Haynes is one of our 5 highest paid players.

I agree that this is HH’s best chance to earn $ and we will have to compete with other clubs to re-sign him. There were reports that Sydney were also interested in him. Noting that Buckley and Ash are out of contract this year as well, re-signing HH will give us more options if one of them leaves. I think Buckley will repay our faith in him when he was injured and stay with us, but we will have to compete hard for Ash’s signature?

With Riccardi not playing to his potential, and Cadman yet to debut, I think we should persevere with HH as a forward and try our best to re-sign him.
Click to expand...
HH not strong enough in the contest for mine. Amazing ball user.
His best position is spare defender.
I think another club will fork out for him. I don’t think we’ll match.
We’ll get a first round pick. That gives us three next year.
It will also allow Cadman to play as that second target in his second year.
 
dlanod said:
Sunk cost fallacy. If Haynes isn't good enough to be playing seniors, we're actively hurting the team by selecting him.
Click to expand...
But Haynes is still playing good footy, if he was actively hurting us then sure leave him out of the side but he's been a good performer imo. I'm also not sure what sort of reaction Kinglsey would get from the rest of the playing group if Haynes was dropped, he's someone that I imagine is very highly thought of as a person, player and leader of the group, while still being a good contributor. Kingsley doesn't have the cache that another coach might have if he was to drop Haynes, he's only been a head coach for 3 games.
 
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central.rookieme.com

Snapshot: 2023 Coates Talent League - Round 2

Another eight games in the Coates Talent League saw three contests decided by single-digit margins, while all four academies went down.
central.rookieme.com central.rookieme.com

BENDIGO PIONEERS 19.10 (124) def. GIANTS ACADEMY 6.6 (42)

IN A SENTENCE…

The Bendigo Pioneers shot out of the blocks to deliver the most comprehensive win of Round 2, with 12 individual goalkickers dining out in their 82-point demolition of the Giants Academy.

WHERE IT WAS WON:

Bendigo won the kicks (191-151), inside 50s (54-37), and scoring shots (29-12)
Giants Academy won the handballs (117-102) and hitouts (41-28)

BY THE NUMBERS:

Tom Evans (Bendigo Pioneers) – 25 disposals, 5 marks, 2 goals
Harley Reid (Bendigo Pioneers) – 21 disposals, 7 tackles, 7 inside 50s, 1 goal
Tobie Travaglia (Bendigo Pioneers) – 17 disposals, 3 marks, 1 goal
Jack Glanvill (Giants Academy) – 24 disposals, 4 marks, 1 goal
Luke Lawrence (Giants Academy) – 20 disposals, 7 marks, 7 rebound 50s
Harvey Thomas (Giants Academy) – 17 disposals, 8 tackles, 1 goal
 

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List Mgmt. 2023 GWS Giants List Management - Academy, Free Agent, Trade, Draft

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