The Greens

[Northalives]

Grifters gonna grift

I really do believe she is suffering from Grandiose Delusions. It's sad.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

That's a lot of words for someone who won't say what they're actually worried about

??? Sorry, what are you referring to? Did I say I was worried about something?

 

[Gralin]

??? Sorry, what are you referring to? Did I say I was worried about something?

Yeah your mates getting cancelled at uni apparently

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It interesting though SBD Gonzalez that you seem to think being progressive should be some sort of shield against criticism.

No, I don't think that, but then again, it's not at all like you to make wild conjectures about what other people are thinking and miss the mark now, is it?

That your mates, by being progressive in your eyes couldn't possibly actually have anything legitimate to worry about, it's just all made up by stupid kids that are I guess in your mind from gralinworld

You'll do anything you can to cope with the cognitive dissonance generated by the realisation that not every progressive conforms to your utopian worldview.

I didn't say "it's all made up by stupid kids". Yet again, you've told me what's in my mind. Why do you persist?

Quit while you're behind mate.

 

[Gralin]

No, I don't think that, but then again, it's not at all like you to make wild conjectures about what other people are thinking and miss the mark now, is it?


You'll do anything you can to cope with the cognitive dissonance generated by the realisation that not every progressive conforms to your utopian worldview.

I didn't say "it's all made up by stupid kids". Yet again, you've told me what's in my mind. Why do you persist?

Quit while you're behind mate.

Love how you do this.

Many of the academics I know are walking on eggshells for fear of triggering students. One poorly chosen word and it’s on.

Just reminding you of how this started.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Yeah your mates getting cancelled at uni apparently

I'm not worried about them. They're intelligent, qualified people with plenty of life experience. I'm sorry if you got the impression I was suggesting they feel victimised or beleaguered.

Just trying to get a few on here, you included, to understand the real world is different to utopia, that if a person in an educational institution misuses a phrase, they don't necessarily deserve to be branded and othered and cancelled, that uni lecturers actually aren't all-powerful, nor necessarily malicious.

And if those comments are the same objections you read from a dreaded CONSERVATIVE, well, there's a few possibilities, some possibly more palatable than others -

*Some individuals can simultaneously hold views on different topics that range from progressive to conservative

*In some cases, conservatism might not need be automatically dismissed out of hand

*The fact that dickhead rightwingers might weaponise a view held by more reasonable people is no reason for those people to cease holding that view

*Identity politics, for whatever good it has done, also contains by definition as much possibility of being exclusionary as to be inclusive, and that some people might care to self-examine and wonder if they might have been guilty of the former on at least the odd occasion.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Love how you do this.

OK much as I understand why it's not possible to put mods on Ignore, maybe if I'm going to take the trouble to set out my arguments, and you're not going to have the decency to give me a proper reply, I should just put you on unofficial ignore?

Just reminding you of how this started.

I'm well aware of how this particular conversation started. What is your point?

 

[evolved2]

She is not well. It beggars belief that she accuses others of being racist towards her given her racist outbursts. Unfortunately, some defend her because she is an Indigenous women as if women and Indigenous people can't be racist or bigoted.

She's a mixed-race woman who hates her white half. I'd be extremely disappointed if my mixed-race children went down the same path.

 

[evolved2]

Yeah your mates getting cancelled at uni apparently

They were probably cancelled for standing up for female rights. Genuine question: Do the left still care about females?

 

[Northalives]

They were probably cancelled for standing up for female rights. Genuine question: Do the left still care about females?

The term "left" seems so interchangeable these days that it's just convoluted.

It's like Life Of Brian: "People's Front of Judea", "Judean People's Front", "Judean Popular People's Front", "Popular Front" .....

 

[Gralin]

I'm not worried about them. They're intelligent, qualified people with plenty of life experience. I'm sorry if you got the impression I was suggesting they feel victimised or beleaguered.

It was the walking on eggshells for fear of triggering students part.

Walking on eggshells insinuates hyper awareness defensive mechanisms like victims of domestic abuse have.

Triggering used as you did is literally conservative meme style dismissal of the feelings of the person that's upset.

Now maybe that's not what you meant but that's what those phrases are.

Just trying to get a few on here, you included, to understand the real world is different to utopia, that if a person in an educational institution misuses a phrase, they don't necessarily deserve to be branded and othered and cancelled, that uni lecturers actually aren't all-powerful, nor necessarily malicious.

So we are talking about fear if being cancelled.
This constant referring to the real world like I don't live in it is tiring by the way.
Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't live in the real world.
But safe to say Holly Lawford Smith hasn't bern cancelled but does deserve to be branded a bigot.
So you're mates being worried isn't really relevant unless you're supporting her bigotry which you say you aren't.

So I'm going to go with not relevant.

And if those comments are the same objections you read from a dreaded CONSERVATIVE, well, there's a few possibilities, some possibly more palatable than others -

*Some individuals can simultaneously hold views on different topics that range from progressive to conservative

Yes, almost everyone really.

*In some cases, conservatism might not need be automatically dismissed out of hand

I agree. In some cases conservatism is risk aversion or support for tradition.

*The fact that dickhead rightwingers might weaponise a view held by more reasonable people is no reason for those people to cease holding that view

I also agree with this.
I don't think though that the whole walking on eggshells for fear of triggering someone is a progressive view that's been weaponised.

*Identity politics, for whatever good it has done, also contains by definition as much possibility of being exclusionary as to be inclusive, and that some people might care to self-examine and wonder if they might have been guilty of the former on at least the odd occasion.

It's funny that identify politics is talked about like this in the context of acceptance being exclusionary.

The anti trans people are exclusionary

The racists are exclusionary

The fascists are exclusionary

The Islamophobes, the homophobes.

There is a long history list of exclusionary identity politics.

But apparently the problem is people trying to include marginalised groups..

For the record SBD I'm not talking purity politics here, nobody is perfect.

Good people do shit things, hold bad views, make mistakes, whatever.

But we've all got lines. I'm not giving someone a pass for being racist just because they voted for action on climate change or supported SSM.

To me that person is going to be primarily a racist.

 

[evolved2]

It was the walking on eggshells for fear of triggering students part.

Walking on eggshells insinuates hyper awareness defensive mechanisms like victims of domestic abuse have.

Triggering used as you did is literally conservative meme style dismissal of the feelings of the person that's upset.

Now maybe that's not what you meant but that's what those phrases are.

So we are talking about fear if being cancelled.
This constant referring to the real world like I don't live in it is tiring by the way.
Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't live in the real world.
But safe to say Holly Lawford Smith hasn't bern cancelled but does deserve to be branded a bigot.
So you're mates being worried isn't really relevant unless you're supporting her bigotry which you say you aren't.

So I'm going to go with not relevant.


Yes, almost everyone really.

I agree. In some cases conservatism is risk aversion or support for tradition.

I also agree with this.
I don't think though that the whole walking on eggshells for fear of triggering someone is a progressive view that's been weaponised.


It's funny that identify politics is talked about like this in the context of acceptance being exclusionary.

The anti trans people are exclusionary

The racists are exclusionary

The fascists are exclusionary

The Islamophobes, the homophobes.

There is a long history list of exclusionary identity politics.

But apparently the problem is people trying to include marginalised groups..

For the record SBD I'm not talking purity politics here, nobody is perfect.

Good people do s**t things, hold bad views, make mistakes, whatever.

But we've all got lines. I'm not giving someone a pass for being racist just because they voted for action on climate change or supported SSM.

To me that person is going to be primarily a racist.

Lol @ Islamophobes. Islam stands for everything the left opposes, and here you are defending it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Lol @ Islamophobes. Islam stands for everything the left opposes, and here you are defending it.

Says the guy that labels everyone he opposes a leftie.

 

[Gough]

Lol @ Islamophobes. Islam stands for everything the left opposes, and here you are defending it.

Islam seems to be a lot like Christianity to me, the extremists subvert it, and spoil it for everyone else. For every bin Laden and Pell there's also a Mohammed and Joe Average living just like you and me.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Just trying to get a few on here, you included, to understand the real world is different to utopia, that if a person in an educational institution misuses a phrase, they don't necessarily deserve to be branded and othered and cancelled, that uni lecturers actually aren't all-powerful, nor necessarily malicious.

Can you please give me an example of an academic or educator, who isn't a fictional character, who simply misused a phrase, gave a full apology soon after, didn't do the same thing again and was still "cancelled"?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

They were probably cancelled for standing up for female rights. Genuine question: Do the left still care about females?

Really odd how you call them "females".

 

[Ghost Patrol]

They were probably cancelled for standing up for female rights. Genuine question: Do the left still care about females?

Wait until you hear about the guy that cancelled his account over an Andrew Tate post.

 

[Gough]

Really odd how you call them "females".

Everyone on the right is Gloria Steinman these days if it gives them a chance to lay the boot into trans women. You could be forgiven for forgetting they opposed, and still do pretty much every female advancement since women were given the vote.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Can you please give me an example of an academic or educator, who isn't a fictional character, who simply misused a phrase, gave a full apology soon after, didn't do the same thing again and was still "cancelled"?

I didn’t say any of the progressive academics I know had been cancelled. Sorry if I gave that impression.

I meant they’ve said they are nervous of it happening to them because of the chilling effect that cancel culture is having on academia. This is hardly news and my point is that it is not just RW dickheads saying this for their Twitter followers. Get talking to a few lecturer friends at a social gathering and it won’t take long for someone that one would describe as progressive to voice this concern. I guess they’re all completely wrong and have no idea what they’re talking about.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

It was the walking on eggshells for fear of triggering students part.

Walking on eggshells insinuates hyper awareness defensive mechanisms like victims of domestic abuse have.

Triggering used as you did is literally conservative meme style dismissal of the feelings of the person that's upset.

Now maybe that's not what you meant but that's what those phrases are.

So we are talking about fear if being cancelled.
This constant referring to the real world like I don't live in it is tiring by the way.
Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I don't live in the real world.
But safe to say Holly Lawford Smith hasn't bern cancelled but does deserve to be branded a bigot.
So you're mates being worried isn't really relevant unless you're supporting her bigotry which you say you aren't.

So I'm going to go with not relevant.


Yes, almost everyone really.

I agree. In some cases conservatism is risk aversion or support for tradition.

I also agree with this.
I don't think though that the whole walking on eggshells for fear of triggering someone is a progressive view that's been weaponised.


It's funny that identify politics is talked about like this in the context of acceptance being exclusionary.

The anti trans people are exclusionary

The racists are exclusionary

The fascists are exclusionary

The Islamophobes, the homophobes.

There is a long history list of exclusionary identity politics.

But apparently the problem is people trying to include marginalised groups..

For the record SBD I'm not talking purity politics here, nobody is perfect.

Good people do s**t things, hold bad views, make mistakes, whatever.

But we've all got lines. I'm not giving someone a pass for being racist just because they voted for action on climate change or supported SSM.

To me that person is going to be primarily a racist.

Thanks for a really detailed response. I appreciate that.

Much still to discuss and I will address your points, but a big work day today so might not be straight away.

 

[Number37]

Everyone on the right is Gloria Steinman these days if it gives them a chance to lay the boot into trans women. You could be forgiven for forgetting they opposed, and still do pretty much every female advancement since women were given the vote.

The same people that have a black and white view on trans issues will argue until they're blue in the face that consent is a grey area because apparently no doesn't always mean no.

 

[Gralin]

The same people that have a black and white view on trans issues will argue until they're blue in the face that consent is a grey area because apparently no doesn't always mean no.

yeah they also spent a lot of time imagining scenarios where needing consent meant they couldn't ask a woman out for fear of being accused of sexual assault

funny how the arguments are always the same everytime people are asked to consider something other than their own wants

 

[Grin]

Own goal of epic proportions by The Greens.

They did a report on alleged "transphobia". Most of the member submissions to their report think trans activists are bullies and views like "trans women aren't women" should be allowed to be discussed.

The Greens refused to provide the report to their own members....

But it got released to The Age and can be downloaded here.

Hahahahaha!

It's been clear for a long time, the trans ideology is being pushed top-down from universities, HR departments and elite society. Many everyday people of all political persuasions do not agree with the ideology.

It's telling that the only remaining outstanding disciplinary matters are against the leadership for their treatment of gender- critical would-be state convener Linda Gale.

The leadership misread the mood of the members on this entire issue. That's not surprising when you remember the leadership are from the educated, wealthy class. The same people who think social justice means being an "ally" to LGBTIQ people. Instead of actually helping the poor and lower socio-economic classes globally and locally, which is what social justice meant 15-20 years ago.

Lost in Transition: Report lays bare Greens gender rift, warns of split risk

Most Liberal MPs would also be from the 'educated, wealthy class', But of course they're much more self interested and self serving than Greens MPs.
Educated wealthy people with a social conscious = Elites.
Educated wealthy people who are totally self serving and have no moral compass, or a 15th century one = Working class hero.

At least that's what the Murdoch media instructs it's audience to believe.

Most people just aren't being that anymore PJays

 

[Crankyhawk]

There's no non-binary about it. If you're a transphobe, you're a transphobe.

Stop pussyfooting around it.

Alright. Suppose I say that I am a transphobe. What next?
You could even pin it on some of my statements where I expressed concern that some trans people are making this choice as a response to early childhood trauma.

Go on then, what are you and the progressive ideologues gonna do to me?

 

[SSwans2011]

Alright. Suppose I say that I am a transphobe. What next?
You could even pin it on some of my statements where I expressed concern that some trans people are making this choice as a response to early childhood trauma.

Go on then, what are you and the progressive ideologues gonna do to me?

Personally, I'd just think you're a loser and disengage.