List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

Current contract status (Updated 11/3/26) : Total 49 Players - Main List (38) Rookie List (9) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2029 (4) : Jake Waterman (6/5/98) - Signed a 4 year extension (2026-29) on an existing contract due to expire 2025 in October 2024 Liam Baker (27/1/98) - Signed a 5 year...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[TerryFilk]

lik,e essendon two weeks before

You been asleep.In the last month we have beaten north, nearly beaten essendon, beaten the Bulldogs and got thrashed by the Dockers.
The dockers thrashing doesn't look good in context of the other three games but we all knew we would be better at the end of the year with some key players.In fact i kept reading time after time how we would not finish last.once injured players like Yeo,Mcgovern,Cole,Jones,cripps would return.
We have improved.I also remember the comments about leaving Cripps on the LTI list and have a second pick in the mid season draft.
We are still a inconsistent team with a lot of younger players getting games.Maybe not having Oneill and Foley was the reason for a 108 point difference.

Right, let’s ignore we’ve won 5 out of our last 50 odd games, have been smashed by 100+ points twice by fellow bottom 4 sides, have been flogged by 100+ points like 6-8 times this season etc.

 

[Monocle]

Anyone know what sort of offer has been tabled for Dev?



Cheers.

A new jumper.

 

[dinnaz]

All this ruck talk. With Nic Nat retiring and the need for 4 rucks on the list we will need a few more & even then we look thin for 2024. Our #1 is Williams, with Barnett coming along and i'd like to see him played when possible, but not just in there getting smashed. Jamieson is still on the list in case Williams gets injured but looks gone the moment we find a decent depth player.

If we go to the trade table I can't see us doing better than a stop gap option which would be to take Jamieson's spot as depth and even allow Williams to spend more time forward.
The only true #1 on the market as of today is Nick Bryan from Essendon. They just retired Phillips and Bryan looks likely to stay even though he's behind Draper. The likely stopgaps who could have a Vardy sort of career for us are:

-GWS: Preuss & Flynn are OOC. Briggs who has taken his opportunity at GWS this year has pushed in front and they only need 2 rucks.
-Footscray: Jordon Sweet is a low level for a ruck but would be fine for a few years to take the heat off the new wave. May move for opportunities being behind English but the doggies have no one else to do the job and I expect him to be re-signed.


Now this draft is very strong for rucks with a bunch of genuine #1 options as well as key fwds who can pinch hit for 30% of the game. With a plethora of options we can afford a wait and see approach with no reaching needed. In addition we took Barnett early last year so using our early picks would be erroneous.

Our two too early picks are #2 & #21. Leaving us with #35, #40, #54, #58 & #76.
By 35 the best two rucks in Ethan Read (GC academy) and Mitchell Edwards (Fremantle academy) are highly likely to be gone.
Sydney the sneaky devils have hidden Caleb May(Sydney academy) exceptionally well and I would bid on him here and watch them match 0.000001 seconds later.

Therefore some names to possibly call out for in the second half of the draft are
Lachlan Smith #42 GIPPSLAND POWER
Joe Pike #29 GEELONG FALCONS

With additional rookie options:
Evan Smith
Taylor Goad
William Green

*Coen Livingstone is tied to us (WCE Next Gen Academy) and is a 200cm fwd/ruck hybrid. He would be a great pickup if he gets past 40 and I would take him in addition to a true #1 ruckman in the main draft.

 

[Dark Sharks]

The issue i have with English is he is contact averse. He'll sit off packs and not contest to avoid contact.
He's taken 140 marks this year which is heaps and in the top 15 i think at least (equal 14th) for the comp but of those marks the vast majority of those are uncontested (113 of the 140).

He either marks usually as a loose or spare around the ground and avoids packs. Was checking his highlights today and almost all his marks are him 1v1 and coming in from the rear over the top using his height. This is fine when your expecting your midfield to do all the contested work but in our system he'd be wasted. He'd be asked to do more contested work in centre bounces and around the ground stoppages due to a developing midfield and he'd be poor at it.

Bailey works for us right now because he adds an additional contested/clearance side to the midfield when the ball hits the deck, aiding our mids. Tim would not help in this regard, once he gets the tap (which is no more effective than bailey right now) he essentially is dead weight until the ball is clear.

On ruck craft, everyone seems to be happy with Bailey going forward, who is a whole 3 years younger than English, And yet Engish's ruck work eclipses Baileys by a considerable margin. You say his ruckwork isn't as effective as Williams? Contested marks is another you reckon English sucks at? He's soft?


Hitouts to Advantage
English 10.6
Williams 6.5

Hitouts
English 31.5
Williams 27.7

Contested marks
English 1.3
Williams 0.63

Contested possessions
English 9.1
Williams 8.9

Tackles
English 4.4
Williams 3.5


My point is anyone throwing shade at English for things really needs to be looking at their own backyard in Williams first. If English is shit, what's Bailey?

Other than clearances and tackles, which appears to be Williams 1 wood, English has him covered in basically every other area.

I get the point Keyser and others have made regarding the actual benefit from adding English, regarding what he'd cost, but i still think it'd be worth it personally. Set and forget AA ruckman who runs all day, has good skills and would be a good leader for another 6 years. Devon Robertson being offered 4 years at our club despite not being a best 22 player, and averaging 8 touches a game is a more reckless waste of salary IMO.

It's a chat 12 months premature i guess, English still has another whole year at the bulldogs, and plenty can happen with Williams in that time. As you say, our midfield is shit (currently) and has been forever, but by 2025 Gaff should be gone and that's another whole year of Ginbey + Hewett + Culley so things could be turning a corner and it might be a better fit.

 

[Matera92]

On ruck craft, everyone seems to be happy with Bailey going forward, who is a whole 3 years younger than English, And yet Engish's ruck work eclipses Baileys by a considerable margin. You say his ruckwork isn't as effective as Williams? Contested marks is another you reckon English sucks at? He's soft?


Hitouts to Advantage
English 10.6
Williams 6.5

Hitouts
English 31.5
Williams 27.7

Contested marks
English 1.3
Williams 0.63

Contested possessions
English 9.1
Williams 8.9

Tackles
English 4.4
Williams 3.5


My point is anyone throwing shade at English for things really needs to be looking at their own backyard in Williams first. If English is s**t, what's Bailey?

Other than clearances and tackles, which appears to be Williams 1 wood, English has him covered in basically every other area.

I get the point Keyser and others have made regarding the actual benefit from adding English, regarding what he'd cost, but i still think it'd be worth it personally. Set and forget AA ruckman who runs all day, has good skills and would be a good leader for another 6 years. Devon Robertson being offered 4 years at our club despite not being a best 22 player, and averaging 8 touches a game is a more reckless waste of salary IMO.

It's a chat 12 months premature i guess, English still has another whole year at the bulldogs, and plenty can happen with Williams in that time. As you say, our midfield is s**t (currently) and has been forever, but by 2025 Gaff should be gone and that's another whole year of Ginbey + Hewett + Culley so things could be turning a corner and it might be a better fit.

As his hair stylist, will you come with him as part of a packaged deal?

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

We definately need to bring in a cheap but effective ruckman from somewhere. If Williams gets injured the next in line is Jamieson. And lets be honest, we all know he is too small to be a ruckman. Definately need another option. Even if it is stop gap that for a few years. If they are cheap and they can mitigate hit outs to advantage from the opposition ruckman even if losing the hit outs by a wide margin then we could do with them on our list.

 

[Dark Sharks]

As his hair stylist, will you come with him as part of a packaged deal?

All i know is i'll be doing this to the board next offseason when Timmy signs on

 

[Keys]

Looks like he’s saying “BRB deleting my account”

 

[amazingjoshy]

On ruck craft, everyone seems to be happy with Bailey going forward, who is a whole 3 years younger than English, And yet Engish's ruck work eclipses Baileys by a considerable margin. You say his ruckwork isn't as effective as Williams? Contested marks is another you reckon English sucks at? He's soft?


Hitouts to Advantage
English 10.6
Williams 6.5

Hitouts
English 31.5
Williams 27.7

Contested marks
English 1.3
Williams 0.63

Contested possessions
English 9.1
Williams 8.9

Tackles
English 4.4
Williams 3.5


My point is anyone throwing shade at English for things really needs to be looking at their own backyard in Williams first. If English is s**t, what's Bailey?

Other than clearances and tackles, which appears to be Williams 1 wood, English has him covered in basically every other area.

I get the point Keyser and others have made regarding the actual benefit from adding English, regarding what he'd cost, but i still think it'd be worth it personally. Set and forget AA ruckman who runs all day, has good skills and would be a good leader for another 6 years. Devon Robertson being offered 4 years at our club despite not being a best 22 player, and averaging 8 touches a game is a more reckless waste of salary IMO.

It's a chat 12 months premature i guess, English still has another whole year at the bulldogs, and plenty can happen with Williams in that time. As you say, our midfield is s**t (currently) and has been forever, but by 2025 Gaff should be gone and that's another whole year of Ginbey + Hewett + Culley so things could be turning a corner and it might be a better fit.

Now do salaries

 

[boondy]

Another way to view the construction of a flag team is by assessing who is actually "premiership team quality" by the time we have the potential to contend again.
Ruling out oldies and players who are unlikely to make the cut, and relegating semi-oldies to the potential bracket, it's pretty dim viewing, but you can see the framework forming...

Defenders
Star quality: ?
Premiership team quality: Barrass, Hough
Potential to make the cut: Bazzo, Jones, Burgiel, Cole, Hunt, HEdwards, Rotham

Mids
Star quality: Hewett
Premiership team quality: Ginbey
Potential to make the cut: Petruccelle, Chesser, Kelly, LEdwards, Culley

Forwards
Star quality: Allen
Premiership team quality: Long
Potential to make the cut: Ryan, Maric, J Williams

Rucks
Star quality: ?
Premiership team quality: B Williams
Potential to make the cut: Barnett


Potential team:
Hough Barrass Cole
Jones Bazzo Hunt

Chesser Ginbey L Edwards
B Williams Hewett Kelly

Petruccelle Allen Long
Ryan J Williams Maric

INT: Culley, Burgiel, HEdwards, Barnett


So, what do we need to target? Well, a bit of everything!

Another quality KPD is a must. Particularly one who has the potential to develop into a genuine star. Curtin could be the answer. Sam Taylor would be amazing if he was open to a return home.
An elite rebounder is desirable, but at least we have some decent quality in that area.
Quality mids are essential. McKercher would complement Hewett and Ginbey nicely. And hey... Harley isn't out of the question just yet.
With the emergence of Bailey Williams, I think we can press pause on rucks for now... Fingers crossed Barnett comes good.
Another KPF prospect is a must. But at least J Williams and Maric are showing potential.
A mercurial forward is also desirable, particularly if Ryan struggles to reach the same highs as before. He is only 26 though, so hopefully his body is okay for a while yet but that's TBD.

IMO, we should prioritise, in order:
1. Mids! Reid would be amazing, love the look of McKercher too but scared about the Tassie factor... Robertson would be a nice addition to help out in the coal face over the coming years too.
2. KPD. Curtin would be a great prospect to lay a strong defensive foundation moving forward. Big fan of O'Sullivan too if we somehow landed another selection in that range.
(With this in mind, we really can't go too wrong with our first selection! Reid, Curtin or McKercher would all be terrific additions.)
3. KPF (because talls take longer to develop)
4. Rebounding defender (less necessary if we land Curtin as he can double up as a lockdown and rebounder, Burgiel is a chance to develop nicely for this role too)
5. Small forward (Brockman would further alleviate the demand)
6. Ruck
7. Lockdown small/med defender (always desirable but the likes of Cole and Hough are solid)

26 year old Liam Ryan in your potential to make the cut ? As a fwd . All Australian a couple years back.
Tom Barrass is 27

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Isn’t English outta contract end of next year? There’s no point getting Grundy for a year and he will not even come if thats the intention. Grundy is 30 and probably has 3-4 years of decent footy left and is best suited at a contender with no great rucks

Thought Grundy just turned 29 and gawn is almost 32 .

It would be smart if they just kept Grundy as Gawn is one serious injury from retirement

 

[eagles rule]

I dont think anybody is saying we should just say no if he says he wants to come, but chasing him with a trade or paying ridiculous overs in salary would probably not be that smart. The guy just isnt that good at rucking, hes a great player around the rest of the ground sure picking up cheap possessions and clunking marks for sure. If he wasnt taller than 95% of ruckmen he wouldnt even be in the conversation for AA

In the last few weeks English in hitouts:
Barely beat BJ who normally gets thrashed in hitouts
Lost to Reeves
Got smashed by Nank and Soldo
Close to even with Briggs
Lost to Phillips/Bryan
Beat Mclean (who isnt even a ruckman)
Lost to Cameron
Destroyed by Darcy

If we were gonna chase hard im sure most people would much prefer someone like a Sean Darcy type, especially with a weaker midfield.
Again, nobody is gonna say no if English wanted to come as a free agent

I think having Nicnat as a coaching mentor would really help English as we have seen the improvements of Hickey when he ventured Wesr ..


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[FKASC]

If SuperCoach/DT wasn’t a thing, I suspect English wouldn’t be nearly as highly rated.

Same as Grundy back in the day

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Can we bin the English talk until next year when he becomes available.


On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dark Sharks]

If SuperCoach/DT wasn’t a thing, I suspect English wouldn’t be nearly as highly rated.

Same as Grundy back in the day

Ya mum wouldn't be nearly as highly rated either. Except by me.


English is about to be the AA ruck. Not sure fantasy points is why he's getting that accolade babe.

 

[Barrybran]

Ya mum wouldn't be nearly as highly rated either. Except by me.


English is about to be the AA ruck. Not sure fantasy points is why he's getting that accolade babe.

Is your mum a DPP?

 

[Barrybran]

I tend to agree with both points about English. He's had a good season and will be AA ruck but I also think he wouldn't be as highly rated if fantasy wasn't a thing.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

On ruck craft, everyone seems to be happy with Bailey going forward, who is a whole 3 years younger than English, And yet Engish's ruck work eclipses Baileys by a considerable margin. You say his ruckwork isn't as effective as Williams? Contested marks is another you reckon English sucks at? He's soft?


Hitouts to Advantage
English 10.6
Williams 6.5

Hitouts
English 31.5
Williams 27.7

Contested marks
English 1.3
Williams 0.63

Contested possessions
English 9.1
Williams 8.9

Tackles
English 4.4
Williams 3.5


My point is anyone throwing shade at English for things really needs to be looking at their own backyard in Williams first. If English is s**t, what's Bailey?

Other than clearances and tackles, which appears to be Williams 1 wood, English has him covered in basically every other area.

I get the point Keyser and others have made regarding the actual benefit from adding English, regarding what he'd cost, but i still think it'd be worth it personally. Set and forget AA ruckman who runs all day, has good skills and would be a good leader for another 6 years. Devon Robertson being offered 4 years at our club despite not being a best 22 player, and averaging 8 touches a game is a more reckless waste of salary IMO.

It's a chat 12 months premature i guess, English still has another whole year at the bulldogs, and plenty can happen with Williams in that time. As you say, our midfield is s**t (currently) and has been forever, but by 2025 Gaff should be gone and that's another whole year of Ginbey + Hewett + Culley so things could be turning a corner and it might be a better fit.

I think the issue is Bailey is probably on $300k, whereas English will want $1m.

The other issue is that English has a hitout win % of 39.9%, that's below the following rucks, Darcy, Phillips, Bryan, Xerri, Cox, Witts, ROB, Reeves, Gaw, Grundy, Flynn, Samson Ryan, Stanley, Goldy, McInerney, SOldo, Pittonent, Meek, Ceglar, Cameron, Fort, Marshall, Hayes, Lycett, Jackson, and Draper.

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Bailey Williams is at 37.9%. I don't think Bailey is the answer, and i'm not saying don't go for English, but there's a reason that the Dogs struggle when Libba is out. You need to have quality clearance mids at English's feet because he isn't going to spoon feed his players. Would be very different to Nic Nat days.

 

[free2play]

On ruck craft, everyone seems to be happy with Bailey going forward, who is a whole 3 years younger than English, And yet Engish's ruck work eclipses Baileys by a considerable margin. You say his ruckwork isn't as effective as Williams? Contested marks is another you reckon English sucks at? He's soft?


Hitouts to Advantage
English 10.6
Williams 6.5

Hitouts
English 31.5
Williams 27.7

Contested marks
English 1.3
Williams 0.63

Contested possessions
English 9.1
Williams 8.9

Tackles
English 4.4
Williams 3.5


My point is anyone throwing shade at English for things really needs to be looking at their own backyard in Williams first. If English is s**t, what's Bailey?

Other than clearances and tackles, which appears to be Williams 1 wood, English has him covered in basically every other area.

I get the point Keyser and others have made regarding the actual benefit from adding English, regarding what he'd cost, but i still think it'd be worth it personally. Set and forget AA ruckman who runs all day, has good skills and would be a good leader for another 6 years. Devon Robertson being offered 4 years at our club despite not being a best 22 player, and averaging 8 touches a game is a more reckless waste of salary IMO.

It's a chat 12 months premature i guess, English still has another whole year at the bulldogs, and plenty can happen with Williams in that time. As you say, our midfield is s**t (currently) and has been forever, but by 2025 Gaff should be gone and that's another whole year of Ginbey + Hewett + Culley so things could be turning a corner and it might be a better fit.

There is also the fact that Bailey is significantly younger than English. When you look at his career it is only really this year that it has taken a big jump.



Bailey is actually tracking perfectly fine when compared with the presumptive all Australian ruckman and his year 4 is in front of what English was doing (admittedly not actually sharing a ruck role with anyone else).

 

[Keys]

Of interest to us :

Reid wasn’t the only top-five prospect to suffer an injury scare on the weekend, with Tasmanian star Colby McKercher failing to finish his side’s 70-point win over Calder on the field.

After a hot start to the game that included two goals from 14 disposals, McKercher suffered a foot injury as a result of a tackle and finished the match on the bench.

While the pain subsided throughout the day, McKercher is expected to be sidelined for a week or two.

So not a serious injury it appears

After entering the season as a top-10 prospect, Moir has endured a rollercoaster draft year where he’s struggled for consistency across all levels. Yet recruiters are well aware of the mid-sized forward’s incredible, freakish talent, which he displayed as a bottom-ager for South Australia last year.

Rival clubs believe West Coast has interest in Moir, who’s an Eagles fans and has family based in WA.

So interest there or perhaps just people making a lazy assumption

Rival clubs have told foxfooty.com.au in recent weeks they wouldn’t be surprised if the Kangaroos took Curtin – who had 14 disposals on the weekend in his third consecutive WAFL league match for Claremont – with a top pick. Although there are suggestions the Roos might like to pair Colby McKercher with fellow Tasmanian star Ryley Sanders – a top-10 midfielder who’s tipped to end up at the club as a pre-listed NGA prospect as part of North’s priority assistance application.

North just shit me

 

[ronpingwins]

Of interest to us :



So not a serious injury it appears



So interest there or perhaps just people making a lazy assumption



North just s**t me

Royal Eagle has flagged our interest in Moir a few times. Makes sense having a strong underage year

 

[Keys]

According to this, Dev hasn’t been offered 4 years

Dev Robertson has interest from West Coast and is weighing up their interest with loyalty to the Lions but reports of a four-year deal tabled by the Eagles have been denied.

Nothing really of note about us. Dreaming that a club would look at Gaff

The Eagles need as many early picks as they can get to help accelerate a rebuild which has gone wildly off the tracks at times this year. Reuben Ginbey and Elijah Hewett look like stars, but which other young kids can West Coast fans hitch their caravans too? Veteran wingman Andrew Gaff

3

Andrew Gaff

Age

33

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.6

5star

K

15.9

5star

HB

10.7

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.5

5star

K

15.6

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

CL

2.5

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.6

3star

CL

0.6

3star

is up for grabs, Tom Barrass

37

Tom Barrass

Age

30

Ht

197cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

6.1

5star

T

0.9

3star

MG

158.5

3star

D

10.1

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.1

2star

M

5.6

5star

T

0.3

1star

MG

139.6

2star

D

11.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

0.4

3star

MG

160.0

3star

says he is staying, and the Herald Sun revealed Essendon is among the clubs chasing Elliot Yeo

6

Elliot Yeo

Age

32

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.5

5star

K

11.7

4star

HB

7.8

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.5

5star

CL

3.0

4star

D

18.9

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

5.8

5star

CL

5.5

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.6

3star

CL

1.4

4star

. They have to take WA key defender Daniel Curtin with pick two. Interested in Brisbane’s Deven Robertson

40

Deven Robertson

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

4.0

3star

M

0.0

1star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.0

1star

.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

I heard it was Dav Whatmore.

 

[pantskyle]

Since when did you become the voice of reason mate? Blow me down with a feather!

Age gets us all.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

yeo to essendon? right....