Vic Daniel Andrews and the Statue of Limitations

[nobbyiscool]

I repeat, your argument is lost. I shall pop on over to a footy thread, i might find a Collingwood supporter who makes more sense.

You should check usernames, I wasn't making an argument - certainly not with someone who thinks they're being funny with "Tantrum Dan." Flog.

 

[Blue Arrow]

Nine years of crap government & ninety years paying off the debt.

Bye bye you parasite.

 

[Number37]

Being pro lockdown does not entail that you ignore the consequences of the lockdowns.

Being anti-lockdown does not entail that you ignore the consequences of no lockdowns.

 

[Romeoh1]

I'm inclined to disagree. The lockdowns were extremely stressful for children, and there is a significant difference in social/emotional development between pre covid and post covid students.

There are kids in Year 10 with the emotional maturity of Year 7-8's, and Year 7's with the development (across the board) of grade 4's. Kids who don't bring their books, pens, laptop to class. Kids who cannot regulate their emotions to the point of screaming. Kids who cannot sit in their chairs, at any point, due to their agitation. Kids who react to everything with anger or laughter.

Being pro lockdown does not entail that you ignore the consequences of the lockdowns.

Well, you may be right, but I’d be interested to know where exactly you are getting your information re the behaviour/development of these kids? Have studies been done already, or is this anecdotal?

 

[Gethelred]

Well, you may be right, but I’d be interested to know where exactly you are getting your information re the behaviour/development of these kids? Have studies been done already, or is this anecdotal?

Anecdotal. I'm a teacher.

 

[Gethelred]

Being anti-lockdown does not entail that you ignore the consequences of no lockdowns.

You didn't follow the conversation.

 

[JackFlash]

You should check usernames, I wasn't making an argument - certainly not with someone who thinks they're being funny with "Tantrum Dan." Flog.

Well, you don't know how to make an argument anyway. If you spend any time paying attention to the current state of political discourse in this country, particularly Victoria, you’ve no doubt witnessed more than your fair share of mental gymnastics. Ben Carroll put a rather large "Vaulting Horse" in the way of Tantrum Dan midweek and he went off the deep end with a foul-mouthed tirade! The transition of dictatorship didn't go as smoothly as he would've liked.

 

[Romeoh1]

Anecdotal. I'm a teacher.

Yep- so its a small source of data. You can presumably speak anecdotally for your school, and maybe word of mouth from friends at other schools. I presume you only work at one school and you have also referred to primary and secondary students, which you can’t be experiencing both of them first hand. Maybe as a parent, but that’s going to be pretty subjective and somewhat unconvincing.
I’ve no doubt lots of the consequences were negative, but measuring the impact of the Covid years on students is going to be pretty difficult I’d have thought. In any given year there are plenty of variables already. Every group of year 7 or year 12 students varies in any given year. I can’t really see how it can be assessed until quite few more years down the track. And even then it’ll be a tricky thing. I’ll be very interested to read the findings if proper studies are attempted.

 

[Gralin]

Yep- so its a small source of data. You can presumably speak anecdotally for your school, and maybe word of mouth from friends at other schools. I presume you only work at one school and you have also referred to primary and secondary students, which you can’t be experiencing both of them first hand. Maybe as a parent, but that’s going to be pretty subjective and somewhat unconvincing.
I’ve no doubt lots of the consequences were negative, but measuring the impact of the Covid years on students is going to be pretty difficult I’d have thought. In any given year there are plenty of variables already. Every group of year 7 or year 12 students varies in any given year. I can’t really see how it can be assessed until quite few more years down the track. And even then it’ll be a tricky thing. I’ll be very interested to read the findings if proper studies are attempted.

I don't know anyone involved with schools that doesn't agree with Gethelred assessment

I don't read it as saying we shouldn't have had lockdowns, don't forget that when schools were open we've still had a revolving door of sick teachers and students.

The reality is we all just lived through a global pandemic, it's going to have an impact whether we like it or not.

The anti lockdown crowd want to act like staying open would have been peachy but let's not pretend that everything is ok or normal.

Covid was the third leading cause of death last year and we had 20k excess deaths a decent percentage of which can still be related to covid.

It's still out there circulating now as much as people don't want it to be and we've not recovered from it anywhere else so why would schools and kids be any different?

 

[Romeoh1]

I don't know anyone involved with schools that doesn't agree with Gethelred assessment

I don't read it as saying we shouldn't have had lockdowns, don't forget that when schools were open we've still had a revolving door of sick teachers and students.

The reality is we all just lived through a global pandemic, it's going to have an impact whether we like it or not.

The anti lockdown crowd want to act like staying open would have been peachy but let's not pretend that everything is ok or normal.

Covid was the third leading cause of death last year and we had 20k excess deaths a decent percentage of which can still be related to covid.

It's still out there circulating now as much as people don't want it to be and we've not recovered from it anywhere else so why would schools and kids be any different?

Sure-and I’m not disagreeing, but I know plenty of teachers who haven’t had experiences as wild as his. Definite impacts- but mild in plenty of students. I’ve already acknowledged it will have negative consequences- many of which may be long- lasting and severe-I just think it’s not as simple as attributing everything to Covid.
As in the rest of the community- the impacts varied greatly. And as I said, I’ll be very interested down the track to read studies about its impacts on students, and the rest of us. Not sure one can quite get the full picture just yet?

 

[Gralin]

Sure-and I’m not disagreeing, but I know plenty of teachers who haven’t had experiences as wild as his. Definite impacts- but mild in plenty of students. I’ve already acknowledged it will have negative consequences- many of which may be long- lasting and severe-I just think it’s not as simple as attributing everything to Covid.
As in the rest of the community- the impacts varied greatly. And as I said, I’ll be very interested down the track to read studies about its impacts on students, and the rest of us. Not sure one can quite get the full picture just yet?

Nothing he posted was wild and like I said everyone I know has similar stories.

Also if you think kids are the only ones with emotional regulation issues in 2023 you've not been paying attention.

Covid exposed and accelerated a lot of other issues in society, add in climate change getting worse and everything else going on and I'm really wondering why you're shocked this is happening and arguing it isn't.

 

[Gethelred]

Yep- so its a small source of data. You can presumably speak anecdotally for your school, and maybe word of mouth from friends at other schools. I presume you only work at one school and you have also referred to primary and secondary students, which you can’t be experiencing both of them first hand. Maybe as a parent, but that’s going to be pretty subjective and somewhat unconvincing.
I’ve no doubt lots of the consequences were negative, but measuring the impact of the Covid years on students is going to be pretty difficult I’d have thought. In any given year there are plenty of variables already. Every group of year 7 or year 12 students varies in any given year. I can’t really see how it can be assessed until quite few more years down the track. And even then it’ll be a tricky thing. I’ll be very interested to read the findings if proper studies are attempted.

Oh, I outdoubtedly agree that we need a wider sample size than "Take my word for it." I've actually been wondering a bit about wider contextual stuff, if there's ever been research into how similar crisis affects children during the Swine flu pandemic, if there's any basis for what I'm seeing in the kids I'm teaching. I'm also extrapolating across primary what I'm seeing in secondary schools; I teach Year 7's and 8's at the moment, so while I'm not in primary schools I am seeing how they behave when they get to secondary education.

However...

A desire to point out a lack of rigor in humble anecdote does not allow you to dismiss evidence provided to you wholesale. There has to be a level of acceptance between both sides of a conversation that apples equals apples.

 

[evolved2]

There's several studies on the impact of Melbourne lockdowns. For example:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00082-2/fulltext

The results are in - COVID lockdowns were bad for our mental health

A major new study looking at the impact of last year's COVID-19 outbreaks on the mental health of Australian families shows Victorian parents and children experienced a significant peak in symptoms during that state's extended lockdown, compared to the rest of Australia.

www.deakin.edu.au

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Yes it was a mistake to accept the games but lib/nats were all for it too. He fixed his mistake later with a small loss.

Christ, you're exhausting. Read it slowly, The Libs/Nats or any other party are irrelevant.

I've got neither the patience nor the crayons to explain it to you any further.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Christ, you're exhausting. Read it slowly, The Libs/Nats or any other party are irrelevant.

I've got neither the patience nor the crayons to explain it to you any further.

Take him away in handcuffs, he's a communist.

 

[Romeoh1]

Oh, I outdoubtedly agree that we need a wider sample size than "Take my word for it." I've actually been wondering a bit about wider contextual stuff, if there's ever been research into how similar crisis affects children during the Swine flu pandemic, if there's any basis for what I'm seeing in the kids I'm teaching. I'm also extrapolating across primary what I'm seeing in secondary schools; I teach Year 7's and 8's at the moment, so while I'm not in primary schools I am seeing how they behave when they get to secondary education.

However...

A desire to point out a lack of rigor in humble anecdote does not allow you to dismiss evidence provided to you wholesale. There has to be a level of acceptance between both sides of a conversation that apples equals apples.

Yep- fair enough.

 

[peetoo]

There's several studies on the impact of Melbourne lockdowns. For example:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(22)00082-2/fulltext

The results are in - COVID lockdowns were bad for our mental health

A major new study looking at the impact of last year's COVID-19 outbreaks on the mental health of Australian families shows Victorian parents and children experienced a significant peak in symptoms during that state's extended lockdown, compared to the rest of Australia.

www.deakin.edu.au

I know of two acquaintances kids wh have developed anxeity….and I don’t know that many people

 

[evolved2]

I know of two acquaintances kids wh have developed anxeity….and I don’t know that many people

My closest work friend had both their kids develop mental illnesses during lockdown, one of whom is still dealing with the consequences. I was concerned for one of my own at stages too.

I personally think schools should have been kept open during lockdown.

 

[Blue Arrow]

 

[Blue Arrow]

Take him away in handcuffs, he's a communist.

Or a 50kg pregnant woman in pajamas who posted on Facebook.

 

[evolved2]

Or a 50kg pregnant woman in pajamas who posted on Facebook.

Add the grannies sitting on a park bench, the mum and learner driver venturing outside their allotted area, and the immigrants in public housing.

I'm so happy to see the back of Dan. Good riddance.

Now I can consider voting for the ALP again.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Add the grannies sitting on a park bench, the mum and learner driver venturing outside their allotted area, and the immigrants in public housing.

I'm so happy to see the back of Dan. Good riddance.

Now I can consider voting for the ALP again.

Not me. Both "major" parties are shit and they have given me scars. LNP as a child ALP as an adult. **** both of em. Need a third party.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

View attachment 1818266

How does that track with population density brah?

 

[Todman]

How does that track with population density brah?

Keep changing the parameters until you get a result you like.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Not me. Both "major" parties are s**t and they have given me scars. LNP as a child ALP as an adult. * both of em. Need a third party.

So after you vote greens/ one nation/ clive palmer/ all the independents, which major do you put first?
Do you go purely tactical (against a sitting member)?