Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Foxman98]

Collingwood pushed them out, it appears our players want out. Dunkley tried twice

And yet did they go backwards losing what was considered 2 A grade players rising star and solid role player?

 

[Pugz89]

How does him playing some ruck time which he has done before have any impact on his contract?

It means 1 less tall up forward for starters. Marra, Naughts and Lobb with English rucking was our optimum structure. Lobb would chop out the ruck and Tim would float forward. Now we will resort to a two tall structure. Plus we all saw what happened when we played Dunkley in the ruck...

 

[Sentinel]

Yeah only 4-5 weeks ago. Was just told, he is leaving. Saints into him.

From what i understood it might have been mutual.

Lobb for Tom Campbell, straight swap. Time to bring a favourite son home to the Kennel now that he's completed the shit Marvel Stadium tenant club trifecta, aka the Farren Ray.

 

[Foxman98]

It means 1 less tall up forward for starters. Marra, Naughts and Lobb with English rucking was our optimum structure. Lobb would chop out the ruck and Tim would float forward. Now we will resort to a two tall structure. Plus we all saw what happened when we played Dunkley in the ruck...

Collingwood just won the flag with Frampton and Mihocek as their only real forward targets

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Let’s look at this with a glass half full.

1. We’re going to enter next year with an all time bad coaching panel
2. will float around the bottom end of the ladder
3. Bevo will be sacked mid season
4. we’ll finish the year bottom 4 with Lade as caretaker
5. English will leave and get us band 1 compo
6. Grant will resign
7. we’ll recruit the best senior coaching prospect in the country
8. Highly rated assistants will line up to join a club on the rise
9. We’ll do a rapid rebuild in a super draft with two top 5 picks
10. Re-sign Naughton and JUH for another five years each
11. Win the flag in 2025

It’s such a simple yet genius plan. We truly are such a well run club

 

[Dog 36]

And everyone involved lost their jobs...

Pies got all their off field appointments bag on what was required.

We are nit interested in people taking responsibility for their bad decisions we are interested in preserving them

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Other clubs haven't bled other players. Pff the back of Dunkley, if Lobb leaves after only one year, if Smith goes.. there's a clear pattern forming if that plays out and the club will deserve to be hammered.

A lot of IF’s in there.

Slight exaggeration to say the clubs bleeding players because Dunkley and possibly Lobb have left.

I think our player retention is pretty good compared to most clubs. Only a few in recent years and some haven’t been overly missed. Dunkley the only one we could consider hurting our list/best 22.

 

[Foxman98]

Pies got all their off field appointments bag on what was required.

We are nit interested in people taking responsibility for their bad decisions we are interested in preserving them

Their main ones were board level which is our biggest issue

 

[adogsfan5]

Amazing how bad Lobb’s year has been assessed on BF now that he may want out or the club wants him out.

Didn’t think he was that bad in a team that can’t deliver a ball to a forward, lacked any cohesion and system plus we didn’t exactly manage his ankle issues well in preseason

Spot on mate. A good system with Marra, Naughton and Lobb… good lord.
The fanbase deserves better.

 

[Pugz89]

Bottom 4 because we are losing Lobb?

No. Bottom 4 because we are clearly asleep at the wheel with assistant coaches, bevo staying in exact same role, struggling to make the top 8 with a top 4 calibre list and potentially losing a player we traded for 12 months ago. I'm at the point where I hope we finish bottom 4 to force a broom through the whole club. We bottled it after 2016 and we're following the same trajectory after 2021.

 

[Dog 36]

And if next year is a s**t show on field the change will happen

It shouldn’t take next year there is more than enough evidence now to make the changes.

Imagine Bev saying he was surprised to get 2 years !
What Bev was saying in a diplomatic way was “you bunch of nuff buffs I have got you exactly where I want” hence his comment I am comfortable

We lack integrity as a football club.

 

[Pugz89]

Like Collingwood losing Treloar Phillips Stephenson and Grundy?

You're comparing a team who forced players out due to salary cap constraints to a team who are trying to hold on to these players but are requesting trades anyway. No comparison whatsoever.

 

[dardog]

And yet did they go backwards losing what was considered 2 A grade players rising star and solid role player?

Well they did slide to 17th in 2021 and it took for their coach to be sacked for the turnaround, who knows maybe when our footy department finally gets the balls to sack Bevo we may take a similar trajectory. We are also ignoring the fact they got Daicos as well.

 

[Dog 36]

Their main ones were board level which is our biggest issue

Graeme Wright and McCrae were huge plus assistants in Leppitsch and Bolton

All football department people

 

[Pugz89]

Collingwood just won the flag with Frampton and Mihocek as their only real forward targets

Cool. Pies also finished top 4. We can't even make the 8. Hardly a fair comparison between the two teams.

 

[Foxman98]

Cool. Pies also finished top 4. We can't even make the 8. Hardly a fair comparison between the two teams.

So how do they win a flag playing predominantly 2 KPFs yet we can have Naughton ruck for 5 minutes a quarter with Marra and Darcy forward?

 

[Dog 36]

Smiley Boy I appreciate your ITK posts but can you post earlier as I was about to go to bed and here I am still posting

 

[Pugz89]

So how do they win a flag playing predominantly 2 KPFs yet we can have Naughton ruck for 5 minutes a quarter with Marra and Darcy forward?

Because they play a significantly better system and have better buy in from players and better guidance from coaches. This is a symptom, not the single cause. It's just one thing of many which equals the totality of the issues.

That's also discounting the fact we will be lucky to get 15 games out of Darcy next year.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

You're comparing a team who forced players out due to salary cap constraints to a team who are trying to hold on to these players but are requesting trades anyway. No comparison whatsoever.

The Collingwood 2020 trade period was an absolute shitshow. The way they handled the Treloar situation in particular was embarrassing.

There seems to be a thought that because there is success not long after that everything that went down wasn't as bad. There was success in spite of that, it didn't contribute at all. For different reasons they replaced their Coach, President, List Manager and GM of football within about six months of this happening.

Most of the time after a period like we had in 2014 and Collingwood had in 2020, the club would be in a bad way long term after these things. Every now and again though like Beveridge and McRae did (other people deserve credit too but these two were the driving force behind exceptional change), miracles happen and the club comes out on the other side.

 

[Foxman98]

Because they play a significantly better system and have better buy in from players and better guidance from coaches. This is a symptom, not the single cause. It's just one thing of many which equals the totality of the issues.

That's also discounting the fact we will be lucky to get 15 games out of Darcy next year.

So if it’s the system why can’t we ruck Naughton and have 2 options forward then? Given we can also rotate Bont through there and have Weightman who is a good mark as well?

 

[Foxman98]

You're comparing a team who forced players out due to salary cap constraints to a team who are trying to hold on to these players but are requesting trades anyway. No comparison whatsoever.

I’m comparing a team that lost what was considered to be 2 of their top 5 players and their most promising young player

 

[Pugz89]

So if it’s the system why can’t we ruck Naughton and have 2 options forward then? Given we can also rotate Bont through there and have Weightman who is a good mark as well?

You really are gonna die on this hill.. your commitment to defending the club is admirable, but I'm not as positive about it all. This year has left such a sour taste in my mouth. Losing to 3 of the bottom 4 teams, yet somehow beating 3 of the prelim teams. It's just wild to imagine how much more inconsistent we could possibly get. But keeping fighting the 'good' fight Foxman.

 

[Foxman98]

You really are gonna die on this hill.. your commitment to defending the club is admirable, but I'm not as positive about it all. This year has left such a sour taste in my mouth. Losing to 3 of the bottom 4 teams, yet somehow beating 3 of the prelim teams. It's just wild to imagine how much more inconsistent we could possibly get. But keeping fighting the 'good' fight Foxman.

We were debating why Naughton can’t ruck the 5 minutes a quarter when English has his break? You’ve just admitted it’s possible and now are using irrelevant strawman arguments here

 

[Pugz89]

We were debating why Naughton can’t ruck the 5 minutes a quarter when English has his break? You’ve just admitted it’s possible and now are using irrelevant strawman arguments here

Anything is possible, but not if we are going to stick with the same structure all year as what we ran this year.

If we loss Lobb (1/3 of our permanent tall set up) and replace him with Darcy for 2/3 of the season, then what's our plan for the games Darcy doesn't play? That's assuming we even play him forward, which there's no guarantee given Bevo has mentioned its easier to blood talls in defence early in their career.

 

[Foxman98]

Anything is possible, but not if we are going to stick with the same structure all year as what we ran this year.

So you’re wanting a change of structure yet when it’s suggested you think it can’t work?