West Coast are the only non VIC club to win a premiership without concessions

[bzparkes]

ITT: People failing to understand that 'concessions' don't mean PPs.

 

[LoungeLizard]

If the clubs think anything like their supporters do, then there is your answer.

Vic clubs try to beat other clubs, non-Vic clubs just want any non Vic club to win it.

 

[Golumless]

You're kind of proving his point.

Almost impossible for Non-vic teams to win it

Not without concessions.

Though at this point, you could argue it's almost impossible to win it without concessions period. Maybe North Melbourne in the late 90s were the only one in the past 30 or so years?

 

[Golumless]

ITT: People failing to understand that 'concessions' don't mean PPs.

Oh I look forward to the twisted and horrifically flawed logic that's about to come out from this one.

 

[Taper]

So what your saying there is that the SANFL is a comparable league to the AFL and the squad we chose to enter into the AFL in 1997 was full of AFL level talented players? Hmmm interesting.

Port Adelaide Playing List for 1997 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

The gap between the AFL and WAFL/SANFL was far far smaller in the 80s and 90s than it is today.

 

[Caligo]

Depending on how you define concessions, no club has won a flag in the AFL era without concessions, assuming you include things like: priority picks, extremely favourable zones, entry concessions, father sons at an extreme discount or academies.

It is the degree of concessions that matters, not their existence.

 

[Blackas87]

Non Vic clubs getting looked after with all their concessions

 

[Taper]

Non Vic clubs getting looked after with all their concessions

Swans and Lions have won nothing since having cola and retention allowance removed.
Crows and Port have won nothing since having to build lists without start up concessions.
Dockers, Suns and Giants haven't won a thing despite the start up concessions they received.

Honestly with the way things are going, the next non VIC club to win a flag will probably be Tasmania off the back of their start up concessions.

 

[Blackas87]

Swans and Lions have won nothing since having cola and retention allowance removed.
Crows and Port have won nothing since having to build lists without start up concessions.
Dockers, Suns and Giants haven't won a thing despite the start up concessions they received.

Honestly with the way things are going, the next non VIC club to win a flag will probably be Tasmania off the back of their start up concessions.

Non Vic clubs become too reliant on concessions, need to learn to stand on their own 2 feet.

 

[bzparkes]

Non Vic clubs become too reliant on concessions, need to learn to stand on their own 2 feet.

6 Vic clubs wouldn't exist without AFL house filling up the begging bowl and WCE/Brisbane bailing them out in the late 80s.

Ah, what could've been...

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Non Vic clubs become too reliant on concessions, need to learn to stand on their own 2 feet.

Keen for this.

So long as it's all clubs. No annual AFL payouts to anyone. All clubs keep their money and can spend it on whatever they want, no soft caps on footy department spending.

 

[Blackas87]

6 Vic clubs wouldn't exist without AFL house filling up the begging bowl and WCE/Brisbane bailing them out in the late 80s.

Ah, what could've been...

Well that’s just not true but it also has nothing to do with this thread on non-Vic clubs reliance on concessions.

 

[Blackas87]

Keen for this.

So long as it's all clubs. No annual AFL payouts to anyone. All clubs keep their money and can spend it on whatever they want, no soft caps on footy department spending.

Yeah could do this, will probably end the Giants and Suns though.

 

[LionsMaw]

Apart from West Coast in 2006 and 2018, none of the non VIC clubs have won a premiership without concessions.
Lets look at all the other non VIC premierships.

West Coast 1992/1994 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the WAFL.
Adelaide 1997/1998 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Brisbane 2001/2002/2003 - retention and cost of living allowances, hand picked quality from Fitzroy's list after the 'merger'.
Port 2004 - start up concessions, hand picked quality from the SANFL.
Sydney 2005/2012 - cost of living allowance, paying their players 10% more than other clubs were able to.

It's no coincidence the only non VIC club to win premierships without concessions happens to be the richest and most resourced club in the country, even then both those grand finals were decided by a coin flip and could have easily gone the other way.
Does this prove non VIC clubs are at a disadvantage compared to VIC clubs? Or does it prove non VIC clubs simply haven't been good enough and need to get better?

In my opinion it's a bit of both, non VIC clubs have had their chances eg Port and Brisbane in recent years but haven't taken them. At the same time non VIC clubs making poor decisions certainly doesn't help eg GWS sticking with Leon Cameron as their coach for as long as they did.

What are your thoughts?

The only ex Roy in the 3 peat teams was Chris Johnson. Most of the others were ex Bears. Merging with Fitzroy did not make Brisbane a super team.

 

[David Stephens]

If that was scraps maybe the WAFL should have become the AFL. Hell of a side.

Anyone familiar with the WAFL in the mid 80's knows that several players that would have been first choice Eagles selections were snapped up by Victorian clubs. Not complaining, that was the system and fair play. I do think there is a general lack of respect or understanding of just how strong the WAFL was back then.

 

[LionsMaw]

Well that’s just not true but it also has nothing to do with this thread on non-Vic clubs reliance on concessions.

The VFL turned national so that they could use the license fees to ensure the survival of the vic teams.

 

[Mr Meow]

Anyone familiar with the WAFL in the mid 80's knows that several players that would have been first choice Eagles selections were snapped up by Victorian clubs. Not complaining, that was the system and fair play. I do think there is a general lack of respect or understanding of just how strong the WAFL was back then.

Yeah I wasn't having a go at you or anything. And I agree on the latter based on this. Which are some of those players out of interest?

 

[Blackas87]

The VFL turned national so that they could use the license fees to ensure the survival of the vic teams.

They didn’t have to. The VFL was highest revenue Aussie rules league in Australia. There’s a reason big money was paid to join the league.

 

[David Stephens]

Yeah I wasn't having a go at you or anything. And I agree on the latter based on this. Which are some of those players out of interest?

My recollection is certainly not 100% but guys the calibre of Nicky Winmar, Jon Dorotich, Peter Sartori, Shane Ellis, Paul Harding, Darren Bennett, Derek Kickett, and Mark Bairstow

 

[LionsMaw]

Swans and Lions have won nothing since having cola and retention allowance removed.
Crows and Port have won nothing since having to build lists without start up concessions.
Dockers, Suns and Giants haven't won a thing despite the start up concessions they received.

Honestly with the way things are going, the next non VIC club to win a flag will probably be Tasmania off the back of their start up concessions.

The 3peat Lions were a great team because there was a good club culture. If it'd been about nothing but cash then Browny would have left when Collingwood tried to buy his loyalty. Aka ended up as a bulldog because he was on the outer due to his big mouth. Luke Power ended his career at the Giants because he bought into the marketing hype about them winning flags due to all their concessions. Posting nonsense like 'bRiSbAnE wAs oNlY gOoD cOs Of tHe sAlArY cAp' shows how little you know about the Lions.

 

[LionsMaw]

They didn’t have to. The VFL was highest revenue Aussie rules league in Australia. There’s a reason big money was paid to join the league.

Big money was paid bcos the vfl was pov. The Bears & the Eagles in the 80s helped the vfl immeasurably.

 

[Blackas87]

Big money was paid bcos the vfl was pov. The Bears & the Eagles in the 80s helped the vfl immeasurably.

If you earn a million dollars a year and bought a $20 million house you have an S load of debt, it doesn’t mean your pov.

VFL didn’t need that money, they just used it. Bears and Eagles wanted to join the big boys league, no one spends big money to join a pov league

 

[LionsMaw]

If you earn a million dollars a year and bought a $20 million house you have an S load of debt, it doesn’t mean your pov.

VFL didn’t need that money, they just used it. Bears and Eagles wanted to join the big boys league, no one spends big money to join a pov league

Bears license fee was 6 Mil (& I'm assuming the Eagles was too) & was the only reason the vfl was in a position to start 'acting rich'.

 

[Blackas87]

Bears license fee was 6 Mil (& I'm assuming the Eagles was too) & was the only reason the vfl was in a position to start 'acting rich'.

WAFL and SANFL players were joining the VFL well before the Bears and Eagles joined. The players came earn the big $

Anyway we are off topic. Why can’t your club win without a larger salary cap?

 

[LionsMaw]

WAFL and SANFL players were joining the VFL well before the Bears and Eagles joined. The players came earn the big $

Anyway we are off topic. Why can’t your club win without a larger salary cap?

Been making finals for the last 5 yrs without the salary cap.


The vfl was broke in the 80's which is why the Bears & Eagles were made to pay a 6 million license fee.