West Coast are the only non VIC club to win a premiership without concessions

[Freomaniac]

There's so many morons post re the Judd pic that don't know the above.

Pick 6 was your teams Priority pick in 2001 wasnt it?

That was the Ash Sampi pick too. Talented player. Sad how his AFL career ended. He didnt play in that 2006 grand final.

 

[Caligo]

Pick 6 was your teams Priority pick in 2001 wasnt it?

That was the Ash Sampi pick too. Talented player. Sad how his AFL career ended. He didnt play in that 2006 grand final.

There are two ways of looking at it. WC finished 3rd last and so had pick 3. Because of the rules at the time, they also, along with Fremantle and St Kilda, received a bonus pick. The AFL calls it pick 3, but they already had pick 3, so really what they "received" was pick 6.

It all comes down to how you see it. Either in terms of what it is called by the AFL (3) or what WC actually got beyond what they already had (6).

 

[Freomaniac]

The 3peat Lions were a great team because there was a good club culture. If it'd been about nothing but cash then Browny would have left when Collingwood tried to buy his loyalty. Aka ended up as a bulldog because he was on the outer due to his big mouth. Luke Power ended his career at the Giants because he bought into the marketing hype about them winning flags due to all their concessions. Posting nonsense like 'bRiSbAnE wAs oNlY gOoD cOs Of tHe sAlArY cAp' shows how little you know about the Lions.

Correct....

I gotta watch the Open Mike episode where Robert Walls was the guest.

Leigh Matthews might of coached Brisbane to a flag, But Having Robert Walls as Brisbane Coach from 1991-95 was easily the best thing Brisbane has done. He was a proven winner as a player. Got Carlton to a flag in 1987 as a coach, even though that blues 1987 squad could of coached themselves.

Robert Walls in 1991 took over a very bad playing squad that no one wanted to work with. By 1995, He moulded that side into a decent side that made finals.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Not many teams win a flag with out a legal leg up full stop.
Academy , father son, priority pics, dodgy salaries dodgy umps or playing the grandfinal on your home ground sleeping in your own beds against non vic oppo

 

[Gibbke]

Once the finals arrangement at the MCG was fixed, there hasn't been a single barrier stopping interstate sides from winning premierships outside their own onfield quality, and that quality is determined by the coaches and players. Nothing but first world whinging from places unable to realise that hitching a ride onto the biggest sinking ship in the mid-80's with everyone pitching in to bail out the water saved all of them. Aside from Brisbane this year and Sydney in 2016, all of the GF interstate losers since Port have played like s**t on the big day immediately after seasons where they dominated Victorians and everyone else at home and away. West Coast were given the WAFL and developed a team which played three GF's for two flags, and a platform once those restrictions were removed to dominate the 1990's. Every team has had concessions, and every flag winner has had some card in the deck that worked for them. That's the entire point of equalisation strategies, it's naivity and/or chest beating wank to suggest otherwise, and at the end of the day all the clubs are here, all of them have made the PF this century (2 each plus if you add 1999) aside from one expansion straggler, and all of the WA and SA clubs are intact. India's whinging and then chest beating because they won some T20's after losing the WC has made us all laugh, but this is our AFL equivalent...

 

[Caligo]

Not many teams win a flag with out a legal leg up full stop.
Academy , father son, priority pics, dodgy salaries dodgy umps or playing the grandfinal on your home ground sleeping in your own beds against non vic oppo

No club has ever won a flag in AFL history without at least two of the things you listed, and that is probably conservative,even if you exclude umpires since that is too subjective.

 

[GC2015]

Hawthorn get Hodge, Roughead and Ellis through PPs and win four premierships over the following decade. Geelong get extremely fortunate with the F/S rule before it changes which allows them to stockpile talent like Gary Ablett Jr, Stevie J, Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

35

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

and Joel Selwood and the Cats go on to win four premierships over the following 15 years. Richmond get Rance through a PP and he plays in their drought breaking premiership 10 years later.

You can probably find some sort of leg up for all the great teams if you go looking for it. We even saw it this year with Collingwood and not having to pay what is now considered a "fair price" for Nick Daicos at the draft two years ago. No doubt the same thing will be said about the Suns if we end up winning a flag with this current group.

 

[Caligo]

Hawthorn get Hodge, Roughead and Ellis through PPs and win four premierships over the following decade. Geelong get extremely fortunate with the F/S rule before it changes which allows them to stockpile talent like Gary Ablett Jr, Stevie J, Tom Hawkins and Joel Selwood and the Cats go on to win four premierships over the following 15 years. Richmond get Rance through a PP and he plays in their drought breaking premiership 10 years later.

You can probably find some sort of leg up for all the great teams if you go looking for it. We even saw it this year with Collingwood and not having to pay what is now considered a "fair price" for Nick Daicos at the draft two years ago. No doubt the same thing will be said about the Suns if we end up winning a flag with this current group.

Why do people keep repeating this? The Hodge pick was traded for. It was not a Hawthorn PP.

The actual benefits we received from PPs were a guy you have never heard of who never played a final (beau dowler) and Jordan Lewis, who was a fine player, but he isn't why we won four flags.

Priority picks are not why hawthorn won those flags. Claiming otherwise is just copium for your club's failures.

I notice you weren't complaining though when you got our best father son candidate (son of a two time premiership hero) in history as a dodgy priority pick though. If you want to talk about getting an unfair advantage let's start there.

 

[blue harvest]

Hawthorn get Hodge, Roughead and Ellis through PPs and win four premierships over the following decade.

Edit: Caligo just beat me to it.

I see this quite a bit but it's not really an accurate summation of what happened.

In 2001 Hodge wasn't our priority pick, we traded to get that first pick off Fremantle.
In 2004 if you look at the draft and take out the 3 priority picks (Tigers, Hawks, Bulldogs) and then run the draft again we still get Roughead with our first pick, Buddy with out next pick and it would be Lewis that we miss out on.
In 2005 if you do the same thing we still get Ellis but miss out on Dowler.

Lewis was a good player and played in all 4 flags, not sure he was the difference though. It was more getting lucky with Mitchell at pick 36, players like Hodge, Roughead, Buddy and Rioli becoming stars, clever trading getting players like Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, McEvoy, Gibson and even picking up players like Dew who had retired and Guerra who had been delisted.

 

[Caligo]

Edit: Caligo just beat me to it.

I see this quite a bit but it's not really an accurate summation of what happened.

In 2001 Hodge wasn't our priority pick, we traded to get that first pick off Fremantle.
In 2004 if you look at the draft and take out the 3 priority picks (Tigers, Hawks, Bulldogs) and then run the draft again we still get Roughead with our first pick, Buddy with out next pick and it would be Lewis that we miss out on.
In 2005 if you do the same thing we still get Ellis but miss out on Dowler.

Lewis was a good player and played in all 4 flags, not sure he was the difference though. It was more getting lucky with Mitchell at pick 36, players like Hodge, Roughead, Buddy and Rioli becoming stars, clever trading getting players like Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, McEvoy, Gibson and even picking up players like Dew who had retired and Guerra who had been delisted.

He has been told this multiple times.

 

[Dogflogger]

Edit: Caligo just beat me to it.

I see this quite a bit but it's not really an accurate summation of what happened.

In 2001 Hodge wasn't our priority pick, we traded to get that first pick off Fremantle.
In 2004 if you look at the draft and take out the 3 priority picks (Tigers, Hawks, Bulldogs) and then run the draft again we still get Roughead with our first pick, Buddy with out next pick and it would be Lewis that we miss out on.
In 2005 if you do the same thing we still get Ellis but miss out on Dowler.

Lewis was a good player and played in all 4 flags, not sure he was the difference though. It was more getting lucky with Mitchell at pick 36, players like Hodge, Roughead, Buddy and Rioli becoming stars, clever trading getting players like Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, McEvoy, Gibson and even picking up players like Dew who had retired and Guerra who had been delisted.

also got xavier ellis from priority picks.

 

[Taper]

Correct....

I gotta watch the Open Mike episode where Robert Walls was the guest.

Leigh Matthews might of coached Brisbane to a flag, But Having Robert Walls as Brisbane Coach from 1991-95 was easily the best thing Brisbane has done. He was a proven winner as a player. Got Carlton to a flag in 1987 as a coach, even though that blues 1987 squad could of coached themselves.

Robert Walls in 1991 took over a very bad playing squad that no one wanted to work with. By 1995, He moulded that side into a decent side that made finals.

Do you think Robert Walls at Brisbane was similar to Ron Barassi at Sydney and Paul Roos at Melbourne?
Laying the groundwork required for future success.

 

[Caligo]

also got xavier ellis from priority picks.

Nope. We had pick 3 already before the PP were given out. We were getting Ellis regardless. Pick 6 was the extra pick, and that was a guy you have never heard of who did nothing.

 

[Obeanie1]

If that was scraps maybe the WAFL should have become the AFL. Hell of a side.

VFL sides were frantically signing WA players the months before the Eagles were allowed access.

So yes. They only got second dibs at the top WA talent. And a smaller list.

Nothing like new clubs get now.

 

[doppleganger]

Why do people keep repeating this? The Hodge pick was traded for. It was not a Hawthorn PP.

Agree

The actual benefits we received from PPs were a guy you have never heard of who never played a final (beau dowler) and Jordan Lewis, who was a fine player, but he isn't why we won four flags.

Please.

If no priority picks Collingwood keeps pick 4 instead of trading with Hawthorn.

Hawthorn gets just one of Bud or Roughy.

Lewis most likely still available when their North traded first rounder comes along.

Priority picks are not why hawthorn won those flags. Claiming otherwise is just copium for your club's failures.

Hawthorn nailing their three top 10 2004 picks was a big part of their success, but great trading and drafting in 2001 (with no PPs) was more important.

 

[Pistol Night]

Agree

Please.

If no priority picks Collingwood keeps pick 4 instead of trading with Hawthorn.

Hawthorn gets just one of Bud or Roughy.

Lewis most likely still available when their North traded first rounder comes along.

Hawthorn nailing their three top 10 2004 picks was a big part of their success, but great trading and drafting in 2001 (with no PPs) was more important.

It’s provably lucky because we might have picked Richard Tambling also and copped all that ridicule

 

[Obeanie1]

Non Vic clubs getting looked after with all their concessions

Melbourne is in Victoria last time I checked.

Maybe do some research next time.

 

[Caligo]

Agree

Please.

If no priority picks Collingwood keeps pick 4 instead of trading with Hawthorn.

Hawthorn gets just one of Bud or Roughy.

Lewis most likely still available when their North traded first rounder comes along.

Hawthorn nailing their three top 10 2004 picks was a big part of their success, but great trading and drafting in 2001 (with no PPs) was more important.

It is indeed possible Collingwood don't trade if it is pick 4 instead of pick 7. These sorts of hypothetical things are so hard. But once you undo that trade you massively expand out all these other differences in list management that make the entire process incredibly complicated. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible and only considered the single variable of priority picks existing or not existing.

The entire thing is always just a thought exercise though. Without the priority pick maybe all the clubs draft different players (because of different circumstances) and everything becomes moot.

 

[Obeanie1]

West Coast won the 2006 premiership without concessions?

Except for their captain, who was a priority pick....

How many father son concessions did the Eagles opponents have at the time?

Or do you not see father son access as a concession? Because it is. And father son concessions is why other concessions were needed for new clubs. Funny how Vic fans ignor this fact.

 

[Caligo]

How many father son concessions did the Eagles opponents have at the time?

Or do you not see father son access as a concession? Because it is. And father son concessions is why other concessions were needed for new clubs. Funny how Vic fans ignor this fact.

Your best player (arguably) was a f/s right?

 

[big_e]

How many father son concessions did the Eagles opponents have at the time?

Or do you not see father son access as a concession? Because it is. And father son concessions is why other concessions were needed for new clubs. Funny how Vic fans ignor this fact.

Irrelevant to the OP, but ok...

 

[GC2015]

Why do people keep repeating this? The Hodge pick was traded for. It was not a Hawthorn PP.

I see this quite a bit but it's not really an accurate summation of what happened.

In 2001 Hodge wasn't our priority pick, we traded to get that first pick off Fremantle.
In 2004 if you look at the draft and take out the 3 priority picks (Tigers, Hawks, Bulldogs) and then run the draft again we still get Roughead with our first pick, Buddy with out next pick and it would be Lewis that we miss out on.
In 2005 if you do the same thing we still get Ellis but miss out on Dowler.

Lewis was a good player and played in all 4 flags, not sure he was the difference though. It was more getting lucky with Mitchell at pick 36, players like Hodge, Roughead, Buddy and Rioli becoming stars, clever trading getting players like Gunston, Burgoyne, Lake, McEvoy, Gibson and even picking up players like Dew who had retired and Guerra who had been delisted.

Fair enough. I slipped on the Hodge example. That PP was traded for and shouldn't be included in this list. However, Roughead and Ellis were PPs handed to Hawthorn and both became premiership players so the point still stands that Hawthorn had help. The PPs aren't the only reason they won four flags, but it certainly helped. Was a prime Roughead the sole reason Hawthorn won three consecutive flags between 2013-15? No, but would they have won as much without him? We'll never know but I'm inclined to think the answer is no. The same can be said about Jordan Lewis who was also in his physical prime in those 2013-15 years. Sometimes the margin between winning a flag and not winning a flag can be razor thin and as simple as one player missing. I would argue we saw that this year with Ashcroft being unavailable for the GF.

I notice you weren't complaining though when you got our best father son candidate (son of a two time premiership hero) in history as a dodgy priority pick though. If you want to talk about getting an unfair advantage let's start there.

Except he wasn't a father-son candidate. If he was, we would have bid on him with pick 2 and you would have matched. Now who is trying to rewrite history?

I'm not going to deny getting access to Noah Anderson through a PP helped us. If he ends up becoming a premiership player for us then I'll acknowledge that the PP helped us get there too.

 

[Obeanie1]

Irrelevant to the OP, but ok...

How is it irrelevant when father son access is a concession?

And it is. One which Vic clubs have had for a very long time. Would Collingwood have won without father sons?

The point Im making is concessions are everywhere and Vic clubs have been getting them as well. So the OP is a moot question or point. EVERY club gets concessions one way or the other.

 

[Caligo]

Except he wasn't a father-son candidate. If he was, we would have bid on him with pick 2 and you would have matched. Now who is trying to rewrite history?

I'm not going to deny getting access to Noah Anderson through a PP helped us. If he ends up becoming a premiership player for us then I'll acknowledge that the PP helped us get there too.

Dean Anderson played for Hawthorn for 5 years and was an integral part of two flags. Under the old rules he was a f/s but under the new rules he was excluded (barely). It is not rewriting history to say so, and it is utterly mind boggling that such a player is ineligible.

It doesn't matter though. No matter how hard the afl try to screw us we just keep winning flags.

It wouldn't surprise me if a four time premiership 300 game hero and long time captain of the club also has his son taken away from the club because Brisbane "introduced him to afl" after he was already a state representative long before joining their academy.

But tell us more about how biased the system is.

 

[Pistol Night]

How is it irrelevant when father son access is a concession?

And it is. One which Vic clubs have had for a very long time. Would Collingwood have won without father sons?

The point Im making is concessions are everywhere and Vic clubs have been getting them as well. So the OP is a moot question or point. EVERY club gets concessions one way or the other.

If we had the Brown brothers and Will Kelly playing Brisbane would of went in dry GF day