All things Politics

[DinoSoar]

It is recognised that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• Use the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates this forum that does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Maggie5 Gone Critical Anzacday Jen2310

 

[vindaloo]

yes i agree. I cant work out what the israelis have on australia. Do you know? if the russians were killing ukrainians at this rate, penny wong would be going off the chart.....but she's as docile as a lamb.

You might be right the Jewish lobby is powerful in the US, and that's out biggest ally at a time when there is an AUKUS deal and an expansionist china. Hence some of the complexity of blowing the trumpet. There's domestic audience politics too.

The people who are so passionate about Israel don't give the same tune to those suffering in ukraine and they often haven't given a thought to the Yemeni s slaughtered by saudi arabia for that matter.

 

[Markfs]

We're all doing the best we can in difficult circumstances.

no it was good. I'm not really fussed about all these apologies that people who support palestine have to give. Evidently, israelis can bomb without apologising.

 

[Markfs]

You might be right the Jewish lobby is powerful in the US, and that's out biggest ally at a time when there is an AUKUS deal and an expansionist china. Hence some of the complexity of blowing the trumpet. There's domestic audience politics too.

The people who are so passionate about Israel don't give the same tune to those suffering in ukraine and they often haven't given a thought to the Yemeni s slaughtered by saudi arabia for that matter.

well we were gutless before, but the last 100 days have shown our political leaders to be middle men.....something that I should have realised in the various wars australia has been involved in post WW2....

but saying killing babies is a new low for me.

sorry you might quibble about people calling each other names but I think that is minor when I see kids blown to pieces on the internet.

 

[Markfs]

I can sum up mine if it helps


Opera House

As JB said above.

A situation that included some bad people doing bad things was inflamed by an extremist organisation, the AJA, who are despite their name a fringe fascist organisation the personal project of a couple of crackpots, with no more right to represent the Jewish community than I do and an embarrassment to mainstream Jewish organisations in Australia, did what they specialise in and cooked some footage to create outrage. They did this because it suits certain political parties in Aus to give them more clout than they deserve because of their shared politics and it suits them to paint the AJA as representative of Australian Jewry

They were very prominent in supporting Deeming for example post her neo nazi supported demonstration breakdown, and Deeming quoted them with approval as representing the thoughts of Australian Jewry, which horrified the * out of the actual groups like the ECAJ.

Burgertory

The story here is probably simpler than anyone is admitting.

There have been a spate of firebombings of late. If you dig into it, the situation is an ongoing underworld feud between rival groups which started with firebombings as part of a campaign of intimidation and establishing protection rackets, and morphed into an out and out war.

Though nobody seems to be saying it outright, it's probably likely our friend at Buergertory is therefore involved in things that might not be good. Just hypothetically, food outlets are a standard front for drug operations, as they handle a lot of cash and foot traffic, and are great for money laundering. Apropos of nothing.

Hypothetically the owner would have some great incentives then to point the finger elsewhere to deflect attention from the untidy fact that being a victim of one of these firebombings kind of points to your involvement in things you might not want talked about.




The common link I guess is nefarious people inflaming a situation to their own purposes caring not a damn about the people impacted, the violence they incite, or the effect on society be they members of their own community, or their supposed "enemies"

nice logic phil, but it will never be enough. One bloke making a wrongful claim far outweighs 10,000 kids getting slaughtered from bombs and missiles....and lets not forget the 20 years of community imprisonment....sorry, we're supposed to forget that too?

 

[ZEV]

nice logic phil, but it will never be enough. One bloke making a wrongful claim far outweighs 10,000 kids getting slaughtered from bombs and missiles....and lets not forget the 20 years of community imprisonment....sorry, we're supposed to forget that too?

You forgot about the 75 years of wanting to wipe Jews off the map as well....

 

[Markfs]

You forgot about the 75 years of wanting to wipe Jews off the map as well....

yes, well they are currently being punished for a number of things....and that ranks high on the list.

so zev, how do you would you like the situation resolved?

 

[Phil Inn]

nice logic phil, but it will never be enough. One bloke making a wrongful claim far outweighs 10,000 kids getting slaughtered from bombs and missiles....and lets not forget the 20 years of community imprisonment....sorry, we're supposed to forget that too?

No I'm not going to forget that. Nor am I going to forget the civilians murdered in cold blood on Oct 7, or the hostages living in fear and horror since.

At base I'm probably pro Jewish. Growing up in Brighton, I'm pretty aware that the record of anti-semitism in my area is a patchy one, but I have many Jewish friends and supporters. And if there is one thing I can say, it is I have felt at times a sense of brotherhood with the Jewish community.

People seem to forget it, but I know what it is to be part of a community that was targeted by the nazis for extermination. The pink triangle was a symbol mandated for gays in the concentration camp system, one reclaimed by us as an act of defiance to celebrate our survival, just as the yellow star of David has been at times by Jewish people to symbolise their survival against horrific odds.

We both face ongoing violence, abuse and prejudice for being ourselves. My heart is heavy because I know that sensation inside.

But if someone in my community went and even bombed the NSN headquarters in Sunshine, I would repudiate them utterly, and nothing done to me and mine would justify it. Let alone firebombing the whole of Sunshine because it houses neo nazis who want me dead.

Some of the founders of Israel are my heroes. Ben Gurion. Golda Meir. Moshe Dayan one of the greatest.

And you know what? I think if even Moshe Dayan were alive today, he would not say "The Third temple is in danger", he would say, "Let the Third Temple burn", because it has been corrupted and polluted to a point where it is no longer the third temple but some manifestation of evil.

I cannot understand, and will not abide, the whole pathetic pointless tit for tat of trying to justify one by bringing up the other that seems to be the entirety of this thread. Nothing is served by it. I m sick of partisans, either way, only interested in excusing every atrocity conducted by their "side", and resorting to believing misinformation to excuse it, while harping endlessly on what has been done to them as if only one has occurred and not the other.

They are all part of the problem. Including many of the posters in this thread.

 

[JB1975]

Part of your post was weirdly cut off. Now sure how that happens. Anyway, original text below.

They are all part of the problem. Including many of the posters in this thread. But certainly not JB. Has this board every enjoyed the combination of raw intelligence and wisdom that this man provides? Others may parade the image of Mandela in an avatar, but JB has the spirit and strength of Mandela in his soul. His beautiful soul.

Not to labour the point, but I believe that some of the world's most intractable conflicts could be easily resolved by the shining of his light. No Gordian Knot is strong enough to resist the cut of his logic.

He is a true partner for peace.

 

[Markfs]

No I'm not going to forget that. Nor am I going to forget the civilians murdered in cold blood on Oct 7, or the hostages living in fear and horror since.

At base I'm probably pro Jewish. Growing up in Brighton, I'm pretty aware that the record of anti-semitism in my area is a patchy one, but I have many Jewish friends and supporters. And if there is one thing I can say, it is I have felt at times a sense of brotherhood with the Jewish community.

People seem to forget it, but I know what it is to be part of a community that was targeted by the nazis for extermination. The pink triangle was a symbol mandated for gays in the concentration camp system, one reclaimed by us as an act of defiance to celebrate our survival, just as the yellow star of David has been at times by Jewish people to symbolise their survival against horrific odds.

We both face ongoing violence, abuse and prejudice for being ourselves. My heart is heavy because I know that sensation inside.

But if someone in my community went and even bombed the NSN headquarters in Sunshine, I would repudiate them utterly, and nothing done to me and mine would justify it. Let alone firebombing the whole of Sunshine because it houses neo nazis who want me dead.

Some of the founders of Israel are my heroes. Ben Gurion. Golda Meir. Moshe Dayan one of the greatest.

And you know what? I think if even Moshe Dayan were alive today, he would not say "The Third temple is in danger", he would say, "Let the Third Temple burn", because it has been corrupted and polluted to a point where it is no longer the third temple but some manifestation of evil.

I cannot understand, and will not abide, the whole pathetic pointless tit for tat of trying to justify one by bringing up the other that seems to be the entirety of this thread. Nothing is served by it. I m sick of partisans, either way, only interested in excusing every atrocity conducted by their "side", and resorting to believing misinformation to excuse it, while harping endlessly on what has been done to them as if only one has occurred and not the other.

They are all part of the problem. Including many of the posters in this thread.

It's interesting. I had a quick look at hinduism and india and homosexuality and it seems that it wasn't bad for gays until the british came and brought the old testament hate for gays....

of course we know the old testament is the source of so much anti-gay stuff in the big 2 religions and the jewish one as well.

I say all of that after reading your brotherhood statements etc.


As for your founders stuff, I actually read a couple of books in my early 20s on israel...ben and moshe etc. A lot of was lies although pitched as history. In some ways, I never forget being "lied" to about how israel was established....so i'm very similar to jews in that i dont forget and I want revenge....i looking for nice quiet place to bomb

as for the problem posters, I can only offer my apologies.

 

[Markfs]

i parade mandela to celebrate him and what he said about palestinians but I dont think he would have lasted in an israeli jail...

 

[ZEV]

I cannot understand, and will not abide, the whole pathetic pointless tit for tat of trying to justify one by bringing up the other that seems to be the entirety of this thread. Nothing is served by it. I m sick of partisans, either way, only interested in excusing every atrocity conducted by their "side", and resorting to believing misinformation to excuse it, while harping endlessly on what has been done to them as if only one has occurred and not the other.

They are all part of the problem. Including many of the posters in this thread.

Let me clarify why I am angry about the actions of Hash Tayeh. This is part of a conversation i had with Pielebo87 a few moths ago.

Please let's remember this is an Israel Hamas conflict. Our mate Hash, a pro-Palestinian leader, falsely invoked a hate crime, to target Australian Jews on the Sabbath, in the heart of our community. He brought this to my door.

EDIT: It was predictable enough before any protests started for my family to head north.

 

[Phil Inn]

Let me clarify why I am angry about the actions of Hash Tayeh. This is part of a conversation i had with JB1975 a few moths ago.

Please let's remember this is an Israel Hamas conflict. Our mate Hash, a pro-Palestinian leader, falsely invoked a hate crime, to target Australian Jews on the Sabbath, in the heart of our community. He brought this to my door.

EDIT: It was predictable enough before any protests started for my family to head north.



View attachment 1897129

Zev, for the last time, I'm agreeing with you that he is a shithole. Heck, as I have said, he is also probably an organisaed crime figur, which I don't think even you have put forward and I absolutely sympathise with being confronted with that.

but guess what


SO ARE THE ******* AJA! STOP TRYINTG TO TARGET ONE AND BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO EXCUSE THE OTHER FOR heck SAKE

Can you grasp that? Cn you do that? Can you get that no everyone on your "side", or even sometimes agreeing with you, is a good guy and of help to you?

 

[vindaloo]

well we were gutless before, but the last 100 days have shown our political leaders to be middle men.....something that I should have realised in the various wars australia has been involved in post WW2....

but saying killing babies is a new low for me.

sorry you might quibble about people calling each other names but I think that is minor when I see kids blown to pieces on the internet.

When should we do the heavy lifting on the geopolitical stage though? I mean, the then LNP government flexed its muscle in 2020 in regards to the Origins of Covid that's killed up to 10,000,000 people. That devastated the global economy. And you know what! Australia was commended on the global stage and Morrison was initially on a political high. But eventually the election came along in 2022 and, the Chinese community come election time turned their noses at Slomo partly because of that and partly because they at a later stage (LNP) threw social cohesion out the window. And remember the old chestnut of social cohesion. Old mate Hash Tayeh is firebombing his own restaurant and trying to stoke violence against Jewish people, with the path you want our government to go down, they'd be stoking that fire too. Remember that.

Then there's the political motivation that is always evident. When Morrison enquired about the origins of Covid it was the more conservative media and right leaning demographics happy with Australia doing the heavy lifting, whilst it was almost always the progressives who wished the government could be more pragmatic and insist another country to put its bacon on the line. Funny isn't it. With climate change again, it's ALWAYS the other way around. it's kind of like... it's really, really, really obvious that people in politics and the partisans always seem to have an agenda. Which is also obvious in this thread.

Now with what is happening in the Middle East, oh scrap that I need to differentiate the war in Gaza and what happened in Yemen cause no-one gave two shits about Yemen that was Arab on Arab! So with what is happening in GAZA, it seems you would like Australia to do the heavy lifting, meddling and lambast Israel even though we cannot inflict anywhere near the influence that Australia ended up having on China. And I use that example because I'm assuming you were against Australia enquiring about the origins of COVID at the time. China lost the trade war by the way! It was David vs Goliath and David won in a TKO in the end.
Oh, it's potentially political suicide for the Albanese government to put it's bacon on the line in regards to Israel, especially with MSM in this country.

 

[Markfs]

When should we do the heavy lifting on the geopolitical stage though? I mean, the then LNP government flexed its muscle in 2020 in regards to the Origins of Covid that's killed up to 10,000,000 people. That devastated the global economy. And you know what! Australia was commended on the global stage and Morrison was initially on a political high. But eventually the election came along in 2022 and, the Chinese community come election time turned their noses at Slomo partly because of that and partly because they at a later stage (LNP) threw social cohesion out the window. And remember the old chestnut of social cohesion. Old mate Hash Tayeh is firebombing his own restaurant and trying to stoke violence against Jewish people, with the path you want our government to go down, they'd be stoking that fire too. Remember that.

Then there's the political motivation that is always evident. When Morrison enquired about the origins of Covid it was the more conservative media and right leaning demographics happy with Australia doing the heavy lifting, whilst it was almost always the progressives who wished the government could be more pragmatic and insist another country to put its bacon on the line. Funny isn't it. With climate change again, it's ALWAYS the other way around. it's kind of like... it's really, really, really obvious that people in politics and the partisans always seem to have an agenda. Which is also obvious in this thread.

Now with what is happening in the Middle East, oh scrap that I need to differentiate the war in Gaza and what happened in Yemen cause no-one gave two shits about Yemen that was Arab on Arab! So with what is happening in GAZA, it seems you would like Australia to do the heavy lifting, meddling and lambast Israel even though we cannot inflict anywhere near the influence that Australia ended up having on China. And I use that example because I'm assuming you were against Australia enquiring about the origins of COVID at the time. China lost the trade war by the way! It was David vs Goliath and David won in a TKO in the end.

With your left and right view of the world, you need to remember that there are people who tend to operate on the facts and the things that are most important to them.

I wouldnt mind knowing where covid originated. If countries are fooling around with viruses to set them loose on other countries, then I'm against it. I'm generally against wars and the killing of people who dont make the decisions to start wars or research viruses. I would be happy if future wars only involved the leaderships of those countries that want to get involved.

I like peaceful people but I understand that people get frustrated when they are jailed in a limited space for 20 years. I understand that they get frustrated when colonial nations "give away" land to certain groups and that land is not their land to give away. if the british wanted to give land to the jews post WW2, then give them dorset or yorkshire. If you give away land that isnt your own, there will be implications and pressures and people will resent it. That is human nature. i dont want them to kidnap the israelis because I believe in peaceful processes. However, I understand the frustration of losing land and being held captive in a collective jail.

I dont believe that the australian gov't needs to do heavy lifting or instruct the israelis or instruct the chinese. However, they shouldnt be supporting a foreign gov't that is deliberately trying to kill/terrorise a group of people so that they vacate their homes. There are enough israeli leaders saying that they want palestinians to be moved away from the middle east.

Regarding Yemen, the Aust gov't has said "The Australian Government has urged the parties to the conflict to 'respect international humanitarian law [and] minimise civilian hardship' and the Opposition has urged the Government to 'support United Nations' efforts to find a political solution to the conflict'."

I would expect the australian gov't to say the same to the israeli gov't. However, the israeli gov't continues to murder, even after the IJC has effectively told them to stop. The australian gov't has been too gutless to whimper anything after the interim judgement. It doesnt have to heavy lift. It merely has to state a consistent position.

Now you and I know that israel is a special case and it is not bound by any law. It can do as it pleases and we have seen that. It can murder people and australian gov't official doesnt say anything against it. In fact, most MPs seem to be caught up with this name-calling stuff. At this point, you can call me anti-semetic if you like. Such is the way. However, please dont bomb my home. A few simple threats should suffice.

Regarding climate change, I think it's smart to reduce CO2 going into the air. However, I understand that a lot of people have made billions from doing it. They will lie and cheat to stop the world from giving up oil and coal. However, that doesnt mean that it isnt a prudent thing to do. The question as to whether developed countries should stop faster or developing countries has arguments for both sides. However, as a planet we need to stop. That is the bottom line. We should also stop producing plastics and thousands of other things that stuff up this planet. How to do it requires negotiation and we need to keep in mind that there will be rich people who will want to continue the pollution so that they remain rich.

I'll stop there

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

When should we do the heavy lifting on the geopolitical stage though? I mean, the then LNP government flexed its muscle in 2020 in regards to the Origins of Covid that's killed up to 10,000,000 people. That devastated the global economy. And you know what! Australia was commended on the global stage and Morrison was initially on a political high. But eventually the election came along in 2022 and, the Chinese community come election time turned their noses at Slomo partly because of that and partly because they at a later stage (LNP) threw social cohesion out the window. And remember the old chestnut of social cohesion. Old mate Hash Tayeh is firebombing his own restaurant and trying to stoke violence against Jewish people, with the path you want our government to go down, they'd be stoking that fire too. Remember that.

Then there's the political motivation that is always evident. When Morrison enquired about the origins of Covid it was the more conservative media and right leaning demographics happy with Australia doing the heavy lifting, whilst it was almost always the progressives who wished the government could be more pragmatic and insist another country to put its bacon on the line. Funny isn't it. With climate change again, it's ALWAYS the other way around. it's kind of like... it's really, really, really obvious that people in politics and the partisans always seem to have an agenda. Which is also obvious in this thread.

Now with what is happening in the Middle East, oh scrap that I need to differentiate the war in Gaza and what happened in Yemen cause no-one gave two shits about Yemen that was Arab on Arab! So with what is happening in GAZA, it seems you would like Australia to do the heavy lifting, meddling and lambast Israel even though we cannot inflict anywhere near the influence that Australia ended up having on China. And I use that example because I'm assuming you were against Australia enquiring about the origins of COVID at the time. China lost the trade war by the way! It was David vs Goliath and David won in a TKO in the end.

Are you suggesting we won the trade war against China? How?

Otherwise, in some ways I agree that we should be doing some heavy lifting on the world stage. For instance, rather than Australia meekly following other countries in suspending aid to UNRWA, I'd have liked to see us announce a continuation of aid for humanitarian reasons, given that the actions of a few workers was unrepresentative of the vast majority working for the organisation. Instead we have Penny Wong doing what she does best - kowtowing to the USA, Israel and others of that ilk. No doubt when the effects of suspension of aid become all too apparent, she will backtrack a little on her original position, attempting to belatedly play the humanitarian card after already showing our hand to the world. It would be nice to see her and Albo get it right for once the first time.

I thought Morrison was correct to question China's role in initiating and spreading covid around the world, just as I enjoyed Trump referring to the virus as the China plague (the only thing I ever liked about him). China may have retaliated by blocking some Australian exports, but it was refreshing to see a PM take on President Xi. Morrison didn't pay a heavy political price at home for his remarks. It was the vaccine fiasco that sowed the largest seeds of discontent. Also I think the state governments really controlled the agenda in terms of fighting the virus at home, with the federal government almost dragged along as an unwilling partner.

Aside from the above, I really don't understand precisely what point you are trying to make here. I suspect that like me you would only want to see the government engaged in heavy lifting on the world stage if the lifting involves pushing a view with which you agree.

 

[vindaloo]

Are you suggesting we won the trade war against China? How?

Otherwise, in some ways I agree that we should be doing some heavy lifting on the world stage. For instance, rather than Australia meekly following other countries in suspending aid to UNRWA, I'd have liked to see us announce a continuation of aid for humanitarian reasons, given that the actions of a few workers was unrepresentative of the vast majority working for the organisation. Instead we have Penny Wong doing what she does best - kowtowing to the USA, Israel and others of that ilk. No doubt when the effects of suspension of aid become all too apparent, she will backtrack a little on her original position, attempting to belatedly play the humanitarian card after already showing our hand to the world. It would be nice to see her and Albo get it right for once the first time.

I thought Morrison was correct to question China's role in initiating and spreading covid around the world, just as I enjoyed Trump referring to the virus as the China plague (the only thing I ever liked about him). China may have retaliated by blocking some Australian exports, but it was refreshing to see a PM take on President Xi. Morrison didn't pay a heavy political price at home for his remarks. It was the vaccine fiasco that sowed the largest seeds of discontent. Also I think the state governments really controlled the agenda in terms of fighting the virus at home, with the federal government almost dragged along as an unwilling partner.

Aside from the above, I really don't understand precisely what point you are trying to make here. I suspect that like me you would only want to see the government engaged in heavy lifting on the world stage if the lifting involves pushing a view with which you agree.

The ALP flipped a few seats that had a large chinese diaspora though. The Chinese who were once LNP voters, voted ALP in 2022.

Morrison was voted out also for vaccine roll-out, covering up alleged aexual assaults and other reasons that escape my mind.

 

[Markfs]

The ALP flipped a few seats that had a large chinese diaspora though. The Chinese who were once LNP voters, voted ALP in 2022.

Morrison was voted out also for vaccine roll-out, covering up alleged aexual assaults and other reasons that escape my mind.

I have to say that I agree with your analysis about how foreign policy decisions impact on local voting. It would appear that electorates with a high proportion of jewish representation are key to Labor.

"Anthony Albanese astutely convinced the Jewish community that he could be trusted. In July 2021, the then Opposition Leader spoke to a Zoom audience of Jewish community leaders organised by the Executive Council of Australian Jewry. There he stated opposition to BDS, disagreed with any characterisation of Israel as an apartheid state, and declared his support for the definition of antisemitism as formulated by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. These positions are markedly different from the loathsome policies and stances of Jeremy Corbyn when he was the Labour Leader in Great Britain."

The “Jewish vote” and the 2022 federal election - ABC Religion & Ethics

There is a widespread conceit that, because Australian Jewry is largely economically successful, the Labor Party can write them off as unlikely supporters of progressive candidates. This is nonsense. Australia’s Jewish community is concentrated in four electorates: Wentworth, Macnamara...

www.abc.net.au

I think there's a strong argument that the gov't is being gutless about stating Israel should follow international law, for the sake of future election success. Palestinians and their simpathisers should think about using the same strategies and give up these demonstrations which fall on deaf ears. Another strategy that these people should use is giving free vacations to middle east locations. Obviously no one would want to go to gaza and get bombed but I'm sure many MP wives would love to go to saudi cities to spend some money. The israelis have been using this strategy on aussie MPs for years - as well as student leaders etc. The number of MPs who have been given a holiday to israel is astonishing.

 

[sr36]

Are you suggesting we won the trade war against China? How?

Otherwise, in some ways I agree that we should be doing some heavy lifting on the world stage. For instance, rather than Australia meekly following other countries in suspending aid to UNRWA, I'd have liked to see us announce a continuation of aid for humanitarian reasons, given that the actions of a few workers was unrepresentative of the vast majority working for the organisation. Instead we have Penny Wong doing what she does best - kowtowing to the USA, Israel and others of that ilk. No doubt when the effects of suspension of aid become all too apparent, she will backtrack a little on her original position, attempting to belatedly play the humanitarian card after already showing our hand to the world. It would be nice to see her and Albo get it right for once the first time.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's kowtowing to US. I think it's fear of being criticized by the Libs. If they go first to reverse the ridiculous cuts, Libs and Murdoch Press will tease them. They're waiting until other countries say they've investigated it and are going to re-instate funding and then they'll follow suit. It's just a pathetic embarrassing game that costs lives, rather than votes.

 

[Markfs]

Unfortunately, I don't think it's kowtowing to US. I think it's fear of being criticized by the Libs. If they go first to reverse the ridiculous cuts, Libs and Murdoch Press will tease them. They're waiting until other countries say they've investigated it and are going to re-instate funding and then they'll follow suit. It's just a pathetic embarrassing game that costs lives, rather than votes.

i'm trying to think of a way to motivate pollies to do a good job of looking after the longterm welfare of the country. Obviously money is the key motivator. The question is how to use it.

Maybe we should use motivators on each issue. For example, for handling foreign policy well, we could give them a trip overseas in the same way that the israel lobby's give MP trips to israel.....pavlov's dog ..show them the airline tickets and then tell them that they have to make sound policy decisions.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Unfortunately, I don't think it's kowtowing to US. I think it's fear of being criticized by the Libs. If they go first to reverse the ridiculous cuts, Libs and Murdoch Press will tease them. They're waiting until other countries say they've investigated it and are going to re-instate funding and then they'll follow suit. It's just a pathetic embarrassing game that costs lives, rather than votes.

It's insipid.

To quote Paul Keating - 'There's more to being a foreign minister than swanning around the Pacific Islands with a garland round your neck handing out money'. Penny has taken composure to a whole new level. Foreign ministers must have their passion sucked from them at birth.

And that silly hat! How could it be taken seriously on the world stage?!

Barnaby showed him how to use a hat to be noticed, if not necessarily to be taken seriously.

While on the other side is Dutton, who in order to get as right of Labour's pro-Israel policy as he can, has become the Australian Moslem's worst nightmare if he were to ever assume power.

Along with Trump v Biden, there is not much to get excited about.

 

[sr36]

It's insipid.

To quote Paul Keating - 'There's more to being a foreign minister than swanning around the Pacific Islands with a garland round your neck handing out money'. Penny has taken composure to a whole new level. Foreign ministers must have their passion sucked from them at birth.

And that silly hat! How could it be taken seriously on the world stage?!

Barnaby showed him how to use a hat to be noticed, if not necessarily to be taken seriously.

While on the other side is Dutton, who in order to get as right of Labour's pro-Israel policy as he can, has become the Australian Moslem's worst nightmare if he were to ever assume power.

Along with Trump v Biden, there is not much to get excited about.

Nationalism is sweeping the globe and labour is running scared.

 

[ZEV]

Zev, for the last time, I'm agreeing with you that he is a shithole. Heck, as I have said, he is also probably an organisaed crime figur, which I don't think even you have put forward and I absolutely sympathise with being confronted with that.

but guess what


SO ARE THE ******* AJA! STOP TRYINTG TO TARGET ONE AND BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO EXCUSE THE OTHER FOR * SAKE

Can you grasp that? Cn you do that? Can you get that no everyone on your "side", or even sometimes agreeing with you, is a good guy and of help to you?

Phill,

I appreciate that you agree that Hash Tayeh is a shithole. Like many Pro-Palestinian "leaders", he promotes violence, division, genocide and hatred under the pretence of wanting peace. It is unclear though in any of your posts so I appreciate the clarification.

The casual way you dismiss the actions of Pro-Palestinian leaders in Australia preventing Jewish Australians mourning the murder of 1200 Israeli's as "bad people doing bad things" then go on to lambast the AJA suggests to me you have no idea how offensive, hurtful and divisive those actions were.

Opera House

As JB said above.

A situation that included some bad people doing bad things was inflamed by an extremist organisation, the AJA, who are despite their name a fringe fascist organisation the personal project of a couple of crackpots, with no more right to represent the Jewish community than I do and an embarrassment to mainstream Jewish organisations in Australia, did what they specialise in and cooked some footage to create outrage. They did this because it suits certain political parties in Aus to give them more clout than they deserve because of their shared politics and it suits them to paint the AJA as representative of Australian Jewry

I think I said this a long time ago

So, in the middle of a fire-bombing war of smoke shops, 29+ in the last few months, by organised middle eastern crime families and OMC gangs, a Palestinian owned business is fire-bombed.

And Jewish people allegedly did it.

And the owner wont make a statement to police.

And its definitely not a money laundering operation.

I also said this on the SRP board before I was banned for the fourth time (I can't use the quote function);

The AJA seem to be a bunch of dorks and dweebs that I had no idea about until this conflict started. I am not a member and they do not talk for me.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to the AJA and I have never "BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO EXCUSE THE OTHER FOR * SAKE" to defend them.

 

[Phil Inn]

Phill,

I appreciate that you agree that Hash Tayeh is a shithole. Like many Pro-Palestinian "leaders", he promotes violence, division, genocide and hatred under the pretence of wanting peace. It is unclear though in any of your posts so I appreciate the clarification.

The casual way you dismiss the actions of Pro-Palestinian leaders in Australia preventing Jewish Australians mourning the murder of 1200 Israeli's as "bad people doing bad things" then go on to lambast the AJA suggests to me you have no idea how offensive, hurtful and divisive those actions were.




I think I said this a long time ago



I also said this on the SRP board before I was banned for the fourth time (I can't use the quote function);

The AJA seem to be a bunch of dorks and dweebs that I had no idea about until this conflict started. I am not a member and they do not talk for me.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to the AJA and I have never "BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO EXCUSE THE OTHER FOR * SAKE" to defend them.

Zev you keep jumping at shadows.

First, you were defending the actions of the AJA in deliberately doctoring the footage from the Opera House demonstration. That's what I was referring to.

Second, I am not sure what I have been minimising. The bad people doing bad things was a shorthand for the actions of a small number at that protest who were removed by the protest leaders themselves. It was not a reference to the Caulfield incident.

As to what I have said on that, I dont believe I have minimised it. Are you the ******* ttone police? Yes it was bad, the leader in question is a bad actor with malicious intent, and the actions were calculatedly offensive and hurtful. Is that enough?

I have tried engaging, reasoning, logic, and empathy. None of it works with you Zev, You are on an anger crusade and nothing is goiing to deflect you from a black/white world of absolute evil and absolute good.

Maybe reflect there is a reason you have been banned from the SRP board four times? Our mods are a shitload more tolerant, way too tolerant to be honest, and God knows my partner and I have had to deal with a tidal wave of s**t from posters who have a beef with people liike us over the years. But you have been allowed latitude here you don't even seem to understand.

Either way it's clearly no point engaging.

I wish you good health, good life, and a return to better times, safety and security for you and yours, and more Collingwood premierships.

 

[ZEV]

Zev you keep jumping at shadows.

First, you were defending the actions of the AJA in deliberately doctoring the footage from the Opera House demonstration. That's what I was referring to.

Second, I am not sure what I have been minimising. The bad people doing bad things was a shorthand for the actions of a small number at that protest who were removed by the protest leaders themselves. It was not a reference to the Caulfield incident.

As to what I have said on that, I dont believe I have minimised it. Are you the ******* ttone police? Yes it was bad, the leader in question is a bad actor with malicious intent, and the actions were calculatedly offensive and hurtful. Is that enough?

I have tried engaging, reasoning, logic, and empathy. None of it works with you Zev, You are on an anger crusade and nothing is goiing to deflect you from a black/white world of absolute evil and absolute good.

Maybe reflect there is a reason you have been banned from the SRP board four times? Our mods are a shitload more tolerant, way too tolerant to be honest, and God knows my partner and I have had to deal with a tidal wave of s**t from posters who have a beef with people liike us over the years. But you have been allowed latitude here you don't even seem to understand.

Either way it's clearly no point engaging.

I wish you good health, good life, and a return to better times, safety and security for you and yours, and more Collingwood premierships.

Jeez, calm down abit.

Also best of health, safety love and happiness to you and yours!

 

[Markfs]

I respect the AJA for the methods that they use and their effectiveness. Referring to them by using schoolyard names probably says more about the people making those statements, or at best, they are trying to win the lobbying battle by portraying the AJA as uncool. I acknowledge that this approach often seems to work on social media. However, the AJA's methods of using money, leverage, control, gifts etc are far more sophisticated. Palestinians are hanging by a thread and using prehistoric methods to win the debate is a bit like using hand-held weapons against 21st century weaponry.