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He should have been played ahead of Hastie.
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He should have been played ahead of Hastie.
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If you throw darts at the first round, all those statistics are correct.
If you have the ability to select a good player, then there is normally a good player there.
I hope to hell that we have people who can find a good player.
Hawks go into a draft , with nothing in their hands to speak of and come out with James Worpel.
Not the "ideal" footy player, but seemingly the kind of player we can never find.
If you have the ability to select a good player, then there is normally a good player there.
I hope to hell that we have people who can find a good player.
Hawks go into a draft , with nothing in their hands to speak of and come out with James Worpel.
Not the "ideal" footy player, but seemingly the kind of player we can never find.
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Hastie was playing mainly up on the wing. McLennan is a more deep defence, small stopper. Not an equivalent player.
Dr Spaceman
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Then who was? Were they all playing up the wing?
gringo2011
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I remember having a massive hard-on over Worpol when he played his all stars game. Was a captain at the Falcons and led like a general running out of the trenches and into battle. He was what we needed even back then.
akaifu
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Lol what are you on about? Hastie was a winger in the AFL side, McLennan has never played wing in his life and doesn’t have the skill set for it. He is a pure lockdown medium defender.
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For final proof that it's all over for Tarryn Thomas - here you go:
The Age
Sacked North Melbourne footballer Tarryn Thomas was charged by police on Tuesday for alleged harassment and breaching a court order.
Detectives arrested the 24-year-old following an investigation that was launched after a woman reported in April that Thomas had harassed her via mobile phone.
In a statement released on Tuesday, Victoria Police said: “Police have charged a 24-year-old Ormond man in relation to reports of alleged harassing phone calls. Police executed a search warrant at a premises in Ormond on Tuesday 21 May about 11.15am.
“The man was arrested and charged with use telecommunications service to harass and breaching a court order. He was bailed to the Broadmeadows Magistrates’ Court on 21 November.”
It is the second time Thomas has been charged for offences against women. In July, the disgraced footballer admitted in court to threatening to share intimate videos of his ex-girlfriend in 2022. He was ordered to pay $1000 to charity, but avoided a conviction.
Thomas was sacked by the Kangaroos in February after the AFL’s integrity unit found that on a separate occasion, he had threatened a woman in direct messages multiple times. The league imposed an 18-match ban on Thomas on the same day.
The unit found that Thomas “had engaged in multiple acts of misconduct including threatening a woman via direct messages multiple times”.
He had been contracted with the Kangaroos until the end of 2024, and had completed four different behavioural programs during his time at the club in an attempt to address his inappropriate behaviour towards women.
Earlier this month, this masthead revealed that North Melbourne chief executive Jennifer Watt had written to her 17 club counterparts detailing the measures taken to change Thomas’ behaviour, and laid bare the club’s frustration over their repeated attempts to rehabilitate him.
The AFL has been contacted for comment. Thomas’ manager, Ben Williams, has also been contacted for comment.
The Age
Tarryn Thomas charged over alleged harassment
By Carla Jaeger
May 21, 2024 — 2.18pmSacked North Melbourne footballer Tarryn Thomas was charged by police on Tuesday for alleged harassment and breaching a court order.
Detectives arrested the 24-year-old following an investigation that was launched after a woman reported in April that Thomas had harassed her via mobile phone.
In a statement released on Tuesday, Victoria Police said: “Police have charged a 24-year-old Ormond man in relation to reports of alleged harassing phone calls. Police executed a search warrant at a premises in Ormond on Tuesday 21 May about 11.15am.
“The man was arrested and charged with use telecommunications service to harass and breaching a court order. He was bailed to the Broadmeadows Magistrates’ Court on 21 November.”
It is the second time Thomas has been charged for offences against women. In July, the disgraced footballer admitted in court to threatening to share intimate videos of his ex-girlfriend in 2022. He was ordered to pay $1000 to charity, but avoided a conviction.
Thomas was sacked by the Kangaroos in February after the AFL’s integrity unit found that on a separate occasion, he had threatened a woman in direct messages multiple times. The league imposed an 18-match ban on Thomas on the same day.
The unit found that Thomas “had engaged in multiple acts of misconduct including threatening a woman via direct messages multiple times”.
He had been contracted with the Kangaroos until the end of 2024, and had completed four different behavioural programs during his time at the club in an attempt to address his inappropriate behaviour towards women.
Earlier this month, this masthead revealed that North Melbourne chief executive Jennifer Watt had written to her 17 club counterparts detailing the measures taken to change Thomas’ behaviour, and laid bare the club’s frustration over their repeated attempts to rehabilitate him.
The AFL has been contacted for comment. Thomas’ manager, Ben Williams, has also been contacted for comment.
Last edited:
phantom13
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- #759
2000-2010
A little science behind "star" multiple AA's or BnF's (or one of each).
11 years of picks 36% hit rate for a star in the top 5.
Will do 2011-2020 tomorrow
2000 | Riewoldt | Kozchitske | Didak | Livingston | McDougall | 2/5 | 40 | 2/5 | 40 | |
2001 | Hodge | Ball | Judd | Polak | X.Clarke | 2/5 | 40 | 4/10 | 40 | |
2002 | Goddard | Wells | Brennan | Walsh | McVeigh | 2/5 | 40 | 6/15 | 40 | |
2003 | Cooney | Walker | Sylvia | Ray | McLean | 1/5 | 20 | 7/20 | 35 | |
2004 | Deledio | Roughead | Griffen | Tambling | Franklin | 3/5 | 60 | 10/25 | 40 | |
2005 | Murphy | Thomas | Ellis | Kennedy | Pendlebury | 3/5 | 60 | 13/30 | 43.33333 | |
2006 | Gibbs | Gumbleton | Hansen | Lueneberger | Boak | 1/5 | 20 | 14/35 | 40 | |
2007 | Kruezer | Cotchin | Masten | Morton | Grant | 1/5 | 20 | 15/40 | 37.5 | |
2008 | Watts | Naitanui | S.Hill | Hartlett | Hurley | 2/5 | 40 | 17/45 | 37.77778 | |
2009 | Scully | Trengove | Martin | Morabito | Cunnington | 2/5 | 40 | 19/50 | 38 | |
2010 | Swallow | Benell | Day | Gaff | Polec | 1/5 | 20 | 20/55 | 36.36364 |
A little science behind "star" multiple AA's or BnF's (or one of each).
11 years of picks 36% hit rate for a star in the top 5.
Will do 2011-2020 tomorrow
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Still say that in 2001, had we picked Judd, we would have still got Ball as WCE and Freo would have taken Polak and
X Clarke. Sliding doors.
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Yeah...
Players who are still playing picked AFTER Clavarino. ( 35)
Harrison Petty
Jack Petroccelle.
Nathan Murphy
Charlie Ballard.
Worpel.
Ben Paton. (46).
Couple of defenders there we could have used too.
Concerns that stopped people drafting Worpel were kicking ability , and agility.
I guess we already had Dunstan back then.
But i don't think Worpel is that bad now.
akaifu
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Nathan Murphy is retired buddy. Petty is the one
gringo2011
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This is worth a look to see how our good and bad periods were built. The 2009-2010 side was built over about 10 years. We have had very few elite players in the last 20 years.
St Kilda - Every Draft Pick Ever - Draftguru
www.draftguru.com.au
Another way to look at the argument above is to ask what we need? Answer is pretty obvious these days: a young very high end mid (probably 2)
To me, the only way to find the type that will make a real difference to us is through the draft. Excluding last year (too soon), players that have appeared in the last 6 or 7 years that would change our situation (and where they were drafted) are below:
Ashcroft (2), Sheezal (3), Wardlaw (4) Horne-Francis (1), Callaghan (3), Daicos (4) Rowell (1) Anderson (2) Walsh (1) Rozee (5) Brayshaw (2) LDU (4).
So 12 inside the top 4 or 5. Something a bit worse than a 50/50 shot
The list of high-end mids that would make a real difference outside of the first few pics in the draft is:
2017 – nobody (worpol best)
2018 – nobody (Cerra best and he went at 5)
2019 – Green (academy), Serong (8) (Flanders next best and he was 11)
2020 – Gulden (academy) An absolute garbage draft, that should never be spoken of
2021 – nobody (Windy best)
2022 – too early to tell
So basically nobody in the last 7 years outside the top 10, and only 2 outside the top 4! Maybe I have missed one here or there. But the point stands that these are impossible odds!
Inevitably people will respond with a cherry picked example from a decade ago to say you can find mids at any pick (Neale, Merrett, Miller etc). But drafting is clearly a lot better than it was 10+ years ago. These days, to find high-end game changing mids, you NEED a top 4 pick. Otherwise you are just sitting around hoping for the next 'superdraft' like 2002 or 2018 to arrive and deliver us a freak like Dal or Butters outside the top 10.
Now having a top 4 pick is still no guarantee of course (see multiple posts around this). But looking outside of those pics is just hopes and dreams or silly games of "what about player x" in this random outlier example. As a result you then just resort to praying that Clug or LDU say yes to a dumptruck of cash, or hoping someone falls unseen through our academy (and we dont miss out like we did with McKenzie).
So for me, while I hate the idea of tanking, maybe its time to really consider playing the kids?
I am very against trading good players for a mid-teens pic. That’s just treading water and a culture killer. But is it worth genuinely playing just a few more kids and finishing bottom 4?
And IF we really buy into the above, then maybe we also shop our 2025 first and 2024 second + steak knives to Hawthorn for their first too
Wilson, Pou, NWM, Owens etc are all nice pieces, but increasingly thinking we need to take a really big gamble to actually change anything. And the only gamble I see being worthwhile is getting into those top 4 picks and having at least one shot (ideally 2) at someone of the type listed at the top
And if we do it, it has to be in the next 18 months pre Tassie
To me, the only way to find the type that will make a real difference to us is through the draft. Excluding last year (too soon), players that have appeared in the last 6 or 7 years that would change our situation (and where they were drafted) are below:
Ashcroft (2), Sheezal (3), Wardlaw (4) Horne-Francis (1), Callaghan (3), Daicos (4) Rowell (1) Anderson (2) Walsh (1) Rozee (5) Brayshaw (2) LDU (4).
So 12 inside the top 4 or 5. Something a bit worse than a 50/50 shot
The list of high-end mids that would make a real difference outside of the first few pics in the draft is:
2017 – nobody (worpol best)
2018 – nobody (Cerra best and he went at 5)
2019 – Green (academy), Serong (8) (Flanders next best and he was 11)
2020 – Gulden (academy) An absolute garbage draft, that should never be spoken of
2021 – nobody (Windy best)
2022 – too early to tell
So basically nobody in the last 7 years outside the top 10, and only 2 outside the top 4! Maybe I have missed one here or there. But the point stands that these are impossible odds!
Inevitably people will respond with a cherry picked example from a decade ago to say you can find mids at any pick (Neale, Merrett, Miller etc). But drafting is clearly a lot better than it was 10+ years ago. These days, to find high-end game changing mids, you NEED a top 4 pick. Otherwise you are just sitting around hoping for the next 'superdraft' like 2002 or 2018 to arrive and deliver us a freak like Dal or Butters outside the top 10.
Now having a top 4 pick is still no guarantee of course (see multiple posts around this). But looking outside of those pics is just hopes and dreams or silly games of "what about player x" in this random outlier example. As a result you then just resort to praying that Clug or LDU say yes to a dumptruck of cash, or hoping someone falls unseen through our academy (and we dont miss out like we did with McKenzie).
So for me, while I hate the idea of tanking, maybe its time to really consider playing the kids?
I am very against trading good players for a mid-teens pic. That’s just treading water and a culture killer. But is it worth genuinely playing just a few more kids and finishing bottom 4?
And IF we really buy into the above, then maybe we also shop our 2025 first and 2024 second + steak knives to Hawthorn for their first too
Wilson, Pou, NWM, Owens etc are all nice pieces, but increasingly thinking we need to take a really big gamble to actually change anything. And the only gamble I see being worthwhile is getting into those top 4 picks and having at least one shot (ideally 2) at someone of the type listed at the top
And if we do it, it has to be in the next 18 months pre Tassie
Last edited:
Gee, St.Kilda sure picked the two biggest duds of years to have top 5 picks. 2013 and 2014 dud.
phantom13
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- #766
Now updated with 2011-2020. Criteria for 2015 onwards was a bit tougher, 22under22 and a few other things thrown in, you could debate some (McGrath and Ash are not stars by any definition i can think of.
Overall the difference is small and the rate cant get close to 50 even if you really loosen up "star".
2000-2010 - 20/55 or 36%
2011-2020 - 20/50 or 40%
Overall the difference is small and the rate cant get close to 50 even if you really loosen up "star".
2000-2010 - 20/55 or 36%
2011-2020 - 20/50 or 40%
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Total | Percentage | Running Total | Running % | ||
2000 | Riewoldt | Kozchitske | Didak | Livingston | McDougall | 2/5 | 40 | 2/5 | 40 | |
2001 | Hodge | Ball | Judd | Polak | X.Clarke | 2/5 | 40 | 4/10 | 40 | |
2002 | Goddard | Wells | Brennan | Walsh | McVeigh | 2/5 | 40 | 6/15 | 40 | |
2003 | Cooney | Walker | Sylvia | Ray | McLean | 1/5 | 20 | 7/20 | 35 | |
2004 | Deledio | Roughead | Griffen | Tambling | Franklin | 3/5 | 60 | 10/25 | 40 | |
2005 | Murphy | Thomas | Ellis | Kennedy | Pendlebury | 3/5 | 60 | 13/30 | 43.33333 | |
2006 | Gibbs | Gumbleton | Hansen | Lueneberger | Boak | 1/5 | 20 | 14/35 | 40 | |
2007 | Kruezer | Cotchin | Masten | Morton | Grant | 1/5 | 20 | 15/40 | 37.5 | |
2008 | Watts | Naitanui | S.Hill | Hartlett | Hurley | 2/5 | 40 | 17/45 | 37.77778 | |
2009 | Scully | Trengove | Martin | Morabito | Cunnington | 2/5 | 40 | 19/50 | 38 | |
2010 | Swallow | Benell | Day | Gaff | Polec | 1/5 | 20 | 20/55 | 36.36364 | |
2011 | Patton | Congilio | Tyson | Hoskin-Elliot | Buntine | 1/5 | 1/5 | 10 | ||
2012 | Whitfield | O'Rourke | Plowman | Toumpas | Stringer | 1/5 | 2/10 | 30 | ||
2013 | Boyd | Kelly | Billings | Bont | Koladjashnij | 2/5 | 4/15 | 26.66667 | ||
2014 | McCartin | Petracca | Brayshaw | Pickett | DeGoey | 2/5 | 6/20 | 30 | ||
2015 | Weitering | Schache | Mills | Oliver | Parish | 3/5 | 9/25 | 36 | ||
2016 | McGrath | Taranto | McCluggage | Ainsworth | Setterfield | 1/5 | 10/30 | 33.33333 | ||
2017 | Rayner | Brayshaw | Dow | LDU | Cerra | 2/5 | 12/35 | 34.28571 | ||
2018 | Walsh | Lukosius | Rankine | King | Rozee | 4/5 | 16/40 | 40 | ||
2019 | Rowell | Anderson | Jackson | Ash | Stephens | 3/5 | 19/45 | 42.22222 | ||
2020 | JUH | Thilthorpe | Philips | McDonald | Campbell | 1/5 | 20/50 | 40 | ||
| 40/105 | 38.09524 |
gringo2011
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Butters would be close to the best young mid in footy apart from Gulden types. Pick 12. Serong running the best stats of the lot at pick 8 too. Cripps pick 13. Obviously the chances are much higher inside the top 10 though.
gringo2011
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Bearing in mind we will probably need to have between 4 and 8 list spots vacant by the off season, which of our players are closest to the exit, assuming none of them request a trade? Let's ignore for the moment the 2 Cat II rookies.
Off the top of my head:
Jones
Ross
Membrey
Allison
Campbell
Bonner
Paton
Butler
2 or 3 of those guys could get us 4th Rd future dps or something in a trade, free to a team in the window, the rest will have to be delisted.
Off the top of my head:
Jones
Ross
Membrey
Allison
Campbell
Bonner
Paton
Butler
2 or 3 of those guys could get us 4th Rd future dps or something in a trade, free to a team in the window, the rest will have to be delisted.
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That is band 1.
Battle would have to take that unless Hawks offered something similar. A contract of $900,000 pa would be band 1.
Looking at the fixture I think we’ll only win 3-4 more matches. Probably finish 15th : pick 4. Band 1 compensation would give us pick 5.
Picks 4 & 5 almost allows us to rebuild the midfield in one draft.
StFly
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Keeping Bonner, insert Clark (he's been shopped before, will again)
Hayes and Cordy are depth options so also shaky if there's anything "better" around, Sharman also needs to find a niche and stock with it rather than have the ol Battle treatment of being thrown everywhere. If Keeler is indeed a defender and I am summarily sad, Hayes remains and we need to then find another ruck forward archetype as Ming will never be that guy and Heath is raw AF.
St Kilda's scouting budget, including Bevos wages, was less than 100K in 2001.
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