Traded Dan Houston - Joins Collingwood as part of 3-way trade with Port and GC

[Johnny Bananas]

I wonder why neither GC nor Port preferred to deal with North. Their first pick next year should be a good one.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

No thanks to Houston. But if we could do that pick trade, yes please.

How many delistings are you really going to have to fly into the draft with 5 picks again and then also the need for a few mature bodies (given mature bodies are the ones who would go like Greenwood)

Its actually a weird spot Norths list is in. You only got 2 clear delistings in my eyes on Greenwood and Coleman-Jones. Maybe Pink and Nyuon get moved to rookie list? Otherwise its just delisting players who havnt gottan a real chance yet

You would be best of to simply go into the year with 3 picks + a experienced body. I think Houston is a better option then the likes of Parker which have been discussed before.

 

[tiger_tough]

He will go to Carlton or Richmond

Nah. We'd just hold on to Rioli.

 

[Sphynx]

For me its North Melbourne. Now is the time for them to split pick 2 and turn it into pick 7 and Houston for example

The type of player available at pick 2 doesnt really suit the midfield they are building. Houston will let them move McKercher to the midfield long term also

I dont think North would be too devastated if they go from say Jagga Smith to Harvey Langford

Pick 2,22 and 40 for 7, 12, 20 and 34

12 and 20 to Port for Houston. Pick 7 on Langford/Reid who will likely still be around (1 of them) . Seems a good move for North

Err what? FOS is perfectly suited as probably the final piece, especially with the loss of Thomas.

We are 18th in the comp for converting clearances into scores and i50's at the moment, we don't have a problem winning it. Need some composure and ball use.

There's probably not a better fit for FOS than North at the top, as we don't need to throw him into the center square like other bottom sides and we can afford to take the risk on him.

 

[tiger_tough]

Err what? FOS is perfectly suited as probably the final piece, especially with the loss of Thomas.

There's probably not a better fit for FOS than North at the top, as we don't need to throw him into the center square like other bottom sides and we can afford to take the risk on him.

Think we'll take him though.

 

[Sphynx]

Think we'll take him though.

I'd be surprised.

 

[tiger_tough]

I'd be surprised.

Why?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Err what? FOS is perfectly suited as probably the final piece, especially with the loss of Thomas.

We are 18th in the comp for converting clearances into scores and i50's at the moment, we don't have a problem winning it. Need some composure and ball use.

There's probably not a better fit for FOS than North at the top, as we don't need to throw him into the center square like other bottom sides and we can afford to take the risk on him.

FOS will be pick 1. Who do you think Richmond will take given thats the exact player they need with Dusty gone

This also makes no sense. You need better ball use and composure... Houston is one of the best ball users in the whole AFL. This is why you need and would want him...

I think what your midfield needs is defensive pressure/space creators (ie. people who block) . With Sheezel in there you more or less need a big bodied player who can lay some tackles. You got Shiels/Phillips doing it and ones about to retire. Thats where the upgrade should be

 

[perplexed]

How many delistings are you really going to have to fly into the draft with 5 picks again and then also the need for a few mature bodies (given mature bodies are the ones who would go like Greenwood)

Its actually a weird spot Norths list is in. You only got 2 clear delistings in my eyes on Greenwood and Coleman-Jones. Maybe Pink and Nyuon get moved to rookie list? Otherwise its just delisting players who havnt gottan a real chance yet

You would be best of to simply go into the year with 3 picks + a experienced body. I think Houston is a better option then the likes of Parker which have been discussed before.

Definitely prefer Houston to Parker. Parker was dropped out of the Swans mid rotation because he can't keep up with the speed of game anymore - much like the other 'mature bodies' people keep suggesting for us. I would rather we avoided these types for the same reason their teams are pushing them down the pecking order.

You must rate our list higher than I do. We've got eight to ten players I would happily cut. With the depth of talent this year, I suspect we will take four or five plus River Stevens at the draft.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Definitely prefer Houston to Parker. Parker was dropped out of the Swans mid rotation because he can't keep up with the speed of game anymore - much like the other 'mature bodies' people keep suggesting for us. I would rather we avoided these types for the same reason their teams are pushing them down the pecking order.

You must rate our list higher than I do. We've got eight to ten players I would happily cut. With the depth of talent this year, I suspect we will take four or five plus River Stevens at the draft.

Most of the delistings will be rookie list way though?

 

[perplexed]

Most of the delistings will be rookie list way though?

About half. We only have 37 on the primary list and Greenwood, Thomas, Lazzaro, Phillips and maybe Taylor will all be cut or traded off it. Nyuon and CCJ are contracted for 2025 but could easily be cut as well. Others may debate those names, but we wont have trouble finding list spots.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

About half. We only have 37 on the primary list and Greenwood, Thomas, Lazzaro, Phillips and maybe Taylor will all be cut or traded off it. Nyuon and CCJ are contracted for 2025 but could easily be cut as well. Others may debate those names, but we wont have trouble finding list spots.

Forgot about Thomas and thought Lazarro was rookie listed tbh. Greenwood, Thomas, Lazarro would be certainties Phillips would stay as would Taylor I think. Phillips is playing this week. How could he be delisted?

I think North probably just gotta give the guys they have a go. Hardeman, George need some minutes too

 

[perplexed]

Forgot about Thomas and thought Lazarro was rookie listed tbh. Greenwood, Thomas, Lazarro would be certainties Phillips would stay as would Taylor I think. Phillips is playing this week. How could he be delisted?

Phillips is depth, we have too many inside mids in front of him. Fine to keep him as back up, but he would be better off going elsewhere.

I think North probably just gotta give the guys they have a go. Hardeman, George need some minutes too

We are playing a lot of kids already. On those two, George did his ACL again. And Hardeman looks promising but isn't exactly tearing it up in the VFL. He should get more games next year.

 

[Sphynx]

FOS will be pick 1. Who do you think Richmond will take given thats the exact player they need with Dusty gone

This also makes no sense. You need better ball use and composure... Houston is one of the best ball users in the whole AFL. This is why you need and would want him...

I think what your midfield needs is defensive pressure/space creators (ie. people who block) . With Sheezel in there you more or less need a big bodied player who can lay some tackles. You got Shiels/Phillips doing it and ones about to retire. Thats where the upgrade should be

You don't know that at all. Richmond could quite easily take Smith, Smillie, Draper etc at this stage. A lot to play out.

Also, because I don't want to spend a top 10 pick on a 28 year old half back flanker, no matter how good he is?

We've invested first round picks on Goater and Hardeman who play the role. Other than those, we've played McKercher there and he's second only to Whitfield for disposals from half backs in 4 months, we recruited Fisher and the top pick we take could quite conceivably play there also.

Sometimes you just have to back your investment and develop it.

Are they are good as Houston? Probably not.

But Houston isn't an attacking midfielder, you are making out like he's Steve Johnson or something.


In your scenario, I'd much rather keep the 2 first round picks, get another preseason into Hardeman, get Goater back from injury, move McKercher up the ground and take two kids in the draft.

McKercher will be an infinitely more damaging midfielder than Houston in the 3 years time anyway.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You don't know that at all. Richmond could quite easily take Smith, Smillie, Draper etc at this stage. A lot to play out.

Also, because I don't want to spend a top 10 pick on a 28 year old half back flanker, no matter how good he is?

We've invested first round picks on Goater and Hardeman who play the role. Other than those, we've played McKercher there and he's second only to Whitfield for disposals from half backs in 4 months, we recruited Fisher and the top pick we take could quite conceivably play there also.

Sometimes you just have to back your investment and develop it.

Are they are good as Houston? Probably not.

But Houston isn't an attacking midfielder, you are making out like he's Steve Johnson or something.


In your scenario, I'd much rather keep the 2 first round picks, get another preseason into Hardeman, get Goater back from injury, move McKercher up the ground and take two kids in the draft.

McKercher would be an infinitely more damaging midfielder than Houston in the 3 years time.

You will know by trade week what the situation is here for sure. Pick 1 isnt a big secret nowadays

Houstin isnt a midfielder. Houston is the guy you pick to move McKercher into the midfield

Fisher shown he probably isnt up to it at HB. Club has thrown many out of position experienced guys into defense like Stephenson/Fisher and hell even McKercher. More ideal to lock the spot down then continuously rotate people who are not ideally suited to the role

Hardeman isnt the same style of defender as Houston so isnt comparable, nor is Goater.

Club cant continue not picking players up cos they 28. Club needs someone who is 28 as opposed to just drafting 18 year olds every year. Now is the time to head that way

 

[Sphynx]

You will know by trade week what the situation is here for sure. Pick 1 isnt a big secret nowadays

Houstin isnt a midfielder. Houston is the guy you pick to move McKercher into the midfield

Fisher shown he probably isnt up to it at HB. Club has thrown many out of position experienced guys into defense like Stephenson/Fisher and hell even McKercher. More ideal to lock the spot down then continuously rotate people who are not ideally suited to the role

Hardeman isnt the same style of defender as Houston so isnt comparable, nor is Goater.

Club cant continue not picking players up cos they 28. Club needs someone who is 28 as opposed to just drafting 18 year olds every year. Now is the time to head that way

Yes they are.

Tell me what type of defender Houston is in your eyes?

I'm not, not picking him because he's 28.

I would happily go out and get Petracca.

The deal has to be a good one.

We've invested first round picks on two athletic attacking medium defenders in the last 3 drafts, why would we go and spend a top 10 pick on a 28 year old in the same position?

I'd rather just develop them and go after a key forward, or a small forward, or another outside mid.

I.E real list needs.

Not just recruiting someone because they are experienced and good.

I'm sure you are advocating trading down to Pick 15 for the Eagles and getting Houston then?

 

[Redline]

The Houston to Melbourne didn't seem one that was good for either the player or the club. He wasn't really going to change Melbourne's fortunes and the asking price in draft Capital was too much.

The word elite gets used too much now a days. Houston is a really good player and despite what stats show he is not elite. If you asked all clubs which Port players they would like I don't think he would make the top 5.

The positive for Port is there will be Victorian clubs interested who might be able to afford to part with picks. He is not worth a top 10 pick on his own but could be used to move up the draft order.

Otherwise he stays at Port as a good contributor. So they can't really lose.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Yes they are.

Tell me what type of defender Houston is in your eyes?

I'm not, not picking him because he's 28.

I would happily go out and get Petracca.

The deal has to be a good one.

We've invested first round picks on two athletic attacking medium defenders in the last 3 drafts, why would we go and spend a top 10 pick on a 28 year old in the same position?

I'd rather just develop them and go after a key forward, or a small forward, or another outside mid.

I.E real list needs.

Not just recruiting someone because they are experienced and good.

I'm sure you are advocating trading down to Pick 15 for the Eagles and getting Houston then?

You think you getting Petracca for 12 and 20? Such thing as a balance for that. Houstin is a high possession ball mover. You did not draft 2 players for this role, you selected Zac Fisher to do this role and he just isnt that good. Instead of Zac Fisher, you got a chance to get the best person in this role in the entire AFL. Id suggest the club may just be best to do that is all im saying instead of putting Stephenson/Fisher into roles they are not good at

Houston doesnt want to come to the Eagles. We are doing this exact thing you mention for Liam Baker. Id target someone better but yeah id want someone in to help us be competitive for sure

 

[Sphynx]

You think you getting Petracca for 12 and 20? Such thing as a balance for that. Houstin is a high possession ball mover. You did not draft 2 players for this role, you selected Zac Fisher to do this role and he just isnt that good. Instead of Zac Fisher, you got a chance to get the best person in this role in the entire AFL. Id suggest the club may just be best to do that is all im saying instead of putting Stephenson/Fisher into roles they are not good at

No?

I would send Pick 2 for Petracca. Im just demonstrating to you there's levels between the right player and the right deal.

Houston is not a high possession ball mover. I have no idea who you think you are watching.

He's a traditional medium defender, that is much better than your average Whitfield loose half back type player at defending. He takes intercept marks, he spoils and defends.

When he get's it he's a high impact, high damage ball user.

He averages 23 touches a game and in those is 3.6 kick ins a game. In reality he averages under 20 disposals a game, which is actually poor for most modern half backs, but offset by the fact he actually plays on an opponent and intercepts.

His score involvements are high, his ball use is great and he defends.


Comparing Houston's role to Zac Fisher is laughable.


Riley Hardeman is a quick, intercepting, medium defender who is good aerially, but also attacks and breaks the lines when in possession. His stat profile is exactly like the likes of Houston, Blakey, Mason Redman who are the same in terms of high intercept/spoil/defensive numbers. as well as more than solid possession numbers etc.

Goater is slightly different, but far closer to Houston than Zac Fisher/Sam Flanders/Bailey Dale etc.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

No?

I would send Pick 2 for Petracca. Im just demonstrating to you there's levels between the right player and the right deal.

Houston is not a high possession ball mover. I have no idea who you think you are watching.

He's a traditional medium defender, that is much better than your average Whitfield loose half back type player at defending. He takes intercept marks, he spoils and defends.

When he get's it he's a high impact, high damage ball user.

He averages 23 touches a game and in those is 3.6 kick ins a game. In reality he averages under 20 disposals a game, which is actually poor for most modern half backs, but offset by the fact he actually plays on an opponent and intercepts.

His score involvements are high, his ball use is great and he defends.


Comparing Houston's role to Zac Fisher is laughable.


Riley Hardeman is a quick, intercepting medium defender who is good aerially, but also attacking and breaks the lines when in possession. His stat profile is exactly like the likes of Houston, Blakey who are the same in terms of high intercept/soil/defensive numbers. as well as more than solid possession numbers etc.

Umm yeah. This is a good thing. 23 possessions is very good for a kick first defender (so doesnt take cheap handballs back and forth to get that to 28).

You then said its laughable to compare to Fisher but then never explained how. Fisher was bought in to take kick ins and move the ball. He failed so instead you got a midfielder like McKercher doing it (who is getting 10+ kick ins a game btw as the sole player in this role)

You said Hardeman is similar to Houston and then described a entirely different player to Houston.

 

[Sphynx]

Umm yeah. This is a good thing. 23 possessions is very good for a kick first defender (so doesnt take cheap handballs back and forth to get that to 28).

You then said its laughable to compare to Fisher but then never explained how. Fisher was bought in to take kick ins and move the ball. He failed so instead you got a midfielder like McKercher doing it (who is getting 10+ kick ins a game btw as the sole player in this role)

You said Hardeman is similar to Houston and then described a entirely different player to Houston.

How did he fail mate? By getting injured? He's no world beater, but you are making out like he's been garbage, which is rubbish.

He's 10th in the league for half back flankers for disposals.

Fisher and McKercher played together for about 10 games, both of them injured at various points. It's not been one or the other until 2 weeks ago, when Fisher was still regaining fitness.

He's played 16 games @ 24 disposals a game and almost 400 meters gained. Houston's kick % is 71% vs 72% and it's 5.1 kick ins vs 3.6.

It's laughable to compare Fisher to Houston because the type of medium defender they are is completely different.

Houston sits in the Luke Ryan, Mason Redman, Jordan Clark type group. (i.e guys who are good aerially and go up and spoil opponents) and get slightly less of the ball vs their counterparts.

Houston is so good and rated so high at the moment because he's so damaging per disposal that he's basically the player who sits high up in both these types of half backs.

vs

Flanders, Sinclair, Whitfield, NWM, McKercher, Rioli. (i.e Fisher)


Who don't spoil and compete in the air largely. Get higher disposal numbers are better runners, more attacking, more handball receives etc.

 

[Sphynx]

You said Hardeman is similar to Houston and then described a entirely different player to Houston.

I described a different player because he's much more athletic.

In terms of their stat profile, they are similar.

Hence where this discussion started.

I have no desire to use a top 10 pick on him, which you seem so desperate to make the point North need to do for some weird reason.

 

[Young Gun #6]

Yes they are.

Tell me what type of defender Houston is in your eyes?

I'm not, not picking him because he's 28.

I would happily go out and get Petracca.

The deal has to be a good one.

We've invested first round picks on two athletic attacking medium defenders in the last 3 drafts, why would we go and spend a top 10 pick on a 28 year old in the same position?

I'd rather just develop them and go after a key forward, or a small forward, or another outside mid.

I.E real list needs.

Not just recruiting someone because they are experienced and good.

I'm sure you are advocating trading down to Pick 15 for the Eagles and getting Houston then?

The comparison between Houston to McKercher and Fisher is pretty insulting.

Mckercher and Fisher barely leave the back pocket, don't defend on a man at all and have no damage on the game.

Not advocating for North to even want Houston but he's so far ahead of those 2 it isn't funny. McKercher, similar to Sheezel would be moving to the midfield sooner rather than later I would imagine and with Sheezel there now I wouldn't want to be relying on Fisher, McDonald and Tucker as my ball using/medium defenders in the backline.

Houston has significantly more or better than McKercher & Fisher:

Contested Possessions
Intercept Possessions
Tackles
Clearances
Inside 50's
Goals
Score Involvements
One Percenters
Pressure Acts
Less turnovers

He is also a far more damaging ball user and can actually defend opposition forwards as well.

 

[Bald]

The idea that Houston wouldnt be welcome. You are insane to think he isnt a upgrade on what you have and wouldnt be a huge success

It flows into what I said in other threads. Bulldogs are 8th and fans think the squad is perfect and beyond the need for improvement. Its laughable

?? I never said he wouldn't be welcomed.

He would be, but he'd be playing a spot we've already got filled by an All Australian. You can't criticise how Bulldogs fans want to improve their list and think spending extremely high capital on an area we have covered already is a good idea. Absolute looney.

 

[Young Gun #6]

I described a different player because he's much more athletic.

In terms of their stat profile, they are similar.

Hence where this discussion started.

I have no desire to use a top 10 pick on him, which you seem so desperate to make the point North need to do for some weird reason.

Stat profile?

Hardeman is going at 14 disposals per game, 4 marks, 1 goal, 1 tackle, 3 inside 50's and 3 rebound 50's in the VFL....

Wouldn't be hanging my hat on a player named in their own teams VFL best 6 players 3/13 games as being similar to the best half back in the AFL league.

Which of those stats (even forgetting for a second we are talking about the minor league (VFL)) are similar to Houston.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

?? I never said he wouldn't be welcomed.

He would be, but he'd be playing a spot we've already got filled by an All Australian. You can't criticise how Bulldogs fans want to improve their list and think spending extremely high capital on an area we have covered already is a good idea. Absolute looney.

I just dont see it as a situation where 1 man can solely do all the disposing of HB myself.

One issue you clearly got is with Ed Richards moved into midfield full time, you have a hole still in defense with that extra ball mover. Hawthorn delistings are not the answer here as much as you all want to pretend it is

Dale is better used running off HB not organising the play and being the kick in guy also. Houston is better off deeper and giving a more attacking edge to your defense that has been lost with Richards in the midfield.

Its not that complicated