Christians are easily startled, but they'll soon be back. And in greater numbers 36:11

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

Talk about rubbish....

Yeah science, bitch!

The relation between intelligence and religiosity: a meta-analysis and some proposed explanations - PubMed

A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious behavior. For college students and the general population, means of weighted and unweighted correlations between intelligence and the strength of religious beliefs ranged from -.20 to -.25 (mean r = -.24). Three possible interpretations were discussed. First, intelligent people are less likely to conform and, thus, are more likely to resist religious dogma. Second, intelligent people tend to adopt an analytic (as opposed to intuitive) thinking style, which has been shown to undermine religious beliefs. Third, several functions of religiosity, including compensatory control, self-regulation, self-enhancement, and secure attachment, are also conferred by intelligence. Intelligent people may therefore have less need for religious beliefs and practices.

 

[Roylion]

No, if Jesus did all we believe He did,

If...

that is the single most important event in history, and that is not mythical until proven.

There is no supporting evidence for the claimed historical fact that Jesus was resurrected. That he was resurrected via a supernatural act is not an historically proven fact.

There is solid historical evidence for the existence of Jesus outside the NT

That there likely was a historical figure of Jesus is not the same as claiming he was actually resurrected from the dead, is the Son of God and is therefore divine. It's no more believable that Alexander the Great or the emperor Augustus were divine. And of course they weren't.

The NT itself is a sacred book, historical sources to be taken seriously in their facts and references.

They were not written to record history. They are theological works, written to promote a particular agenda. As a true record of actual history they are sadly lacking.

God wants nothing from us- He wants us. Nothing more. That stumbling block is difficult for many of you.

That is very debatable. Yet another unsubstantiated claim about the nature of god. So little more than an invention - a product of the human imagination.

 

[domus]

Howcome there exist no evidence of Pontius Pilate?

Are you joking?

Pilate stone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Total Power]

Are you joking?

Pilate stone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nope, context

. https://ehrmanblog.org/do-we-have-any-reliable-sources-for-pontius-pilate/

 

[domus]

Yeah science, bitch!

The relation between intelligence and religiosity: a meta-analysis and some proposed explanations - PubMed

A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A meta-analysis of 63 studies showed a significant negative association between intelligence and religiosity. The association was stronger for college students and the general population than for participants younger than college age; it was also stronger for religious beliefs than religious behavior. For college students and the general population, means of weighted and unweighted correlations between intelligence and the strength of religious beliefs ranged from -.20 to -.25 (mean r = -.24). Three possible interpretations were discussed. First, intelligent people are less likely to conform and, thus, are more likely to resist religious dogma. Second, intelligent people tend to adopt an analytic (as opposed to intuitive) thinking style, which has been shown to undermine religious beliefs. Third, several functions of religiosity, including compensatory control, self-regulation, self-enhancement, and secure attachment, are also conferred by intelligence. Intelligent people may therefore have less need for religious beliefs and practices.

Please. You went there? Theists are dumb and atheists are intelligent. This is high school level crap. Atheists were almost cult like in their worship of the New Atheist gang of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennet. That died a death didn't it? Infighting and bickering erupted. The incessant sheep like laughter of the atheist audiences at every cheap put down of Christianity by Hitchens or Dawkins was cringeworthy.

This propensity for non-believers to tell believers why they believe what they do, is another example of the absolute arrogance so many possess. I would never deign to tell you why you are agnostic or atheist. Apparently, we are scared of death or clinging to our sky daddy. It's all so trite and pathetic.

 

[Total Power]

Please. You went there? Theists are dumb and atheists are intelligent. This is high school level crap. Atheists were almost cult like in their worship of the New Atheist gang of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennet. That died a death didn't it? Infighting and bickering erupted. The incessant sheep like laughter of the atheist audiences at every cheap put down of Christianity by Hitchens or Dawkins was cringeworthy.

This propensity for non-believers to tell believers why they believe what they do, is another example of the absolute arrogance so many possess. I would never deign to tell you why you are agnostic or atheist. Apparently, we are scared of death or clinging to our sky daddy. It's all so trite and pathetic.

It's evident everywhere, highly religious countries are really 3rd world nations. In the last 50 years of science and education religion has almost been wiped out of first world nations. America is also on track to be majority irrelegious by 2050. The proof is in the pudding. Why don't you name the most religious Christian/Muslim/Hindu countries?

 

[domus]

Nope, context

. https://ehrmanblog.org/do-we-have-any-reliable-sources-for-pontius-pilate/

So, Josephus said Pilate existed and ruled for ten years and Tacitus mentioned him too. So, he existed. The Pilate Stone confirms his rule in Judea. What are you disputing?

 

[Total Power]

So, Josephus said Pilate existed and ruled for ten years and Tacitus mentioned him too. So, he existed. The Pilate Stone confirms his rule in Judea. What are you disputing?

I said context, Jesus existed, but the character in NT didn't. By Pilate i meant the character Pilate in the NT.

 

[domus]

It's evident everywhere, highly religious countries are really 3rd world nations. In the last 50 years of science and education religion has almost been wiped out of first world nations. America is also on track to be majority irrelegious by 2050. The proof is in the pudding. Why don't you name the most religious Christian/Muslim/Hindu countries?

Wow. Christianity and science went hand in hand once upon a time. How many of the great scientists were Christians? Western societies were founded on Christian values and beliefs. America was an overwhelmingly Christian country (and still is) until the past three decades but the world's most wealthy and powerful countries were all built by Christians. You cannot suddenly wipe away history because secularism has crept into these societies in recent decades. The foundations had already been laid down.

Christianity and science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Total Power]

Wow. Christianity and science went hand in hand once upon a time. How many of the great scientists were Christians? Western societies were founded on Christian values and beliefs. America was an overwhelmingly Christian country (and still is) until the past three decades but the world's most wealthy and powerful countries were all built by Christians. You cannot suddenly wipe away history because secularism has crept into these societies in recent decades. The foundations had already been laid down.

Christianity and science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Uh no..it's the secularism and the separation of religion and state that make western nations great. There are Christian majority countries that are shitholes. Vast majority of them are. Go to Africa, asia, South america, russia, CIS etc.

Do you want me to name the christian genocides in Africa?

 

[domus]

I said context, Jesus existed, but the character in NT didn't. By Pilate i meant the character Pilate in the NT.

So, Jesus, Pilate, Caiaphas and Paul were all real people who were used as characters in a made up tale? Cool story.

caiaphas - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Total Power]

So, Jesus, Pilate, Caiaphas and Paul were all real people who were used as characters in a made up tale? Cool story.

caiaphas - Search Videos

www.bing.com

So was Krishna, Rama etc. The stories built up over centuries. Look at the Gospels, the stories evolved from gospel to gospel, where in John the youngest of all gospels Jesus is literally walking on water and performing miracles every minute and calling himself God. In synoptics he didn't even call himself god, not even once.

Read history please...and read Forged.

 

[domus]

Uh no..it's the secularism and the separation of religion and state that make western nations great. There are Christian majority countries that are shitholes. Vast majority of them are. Go to Africa, asia, South america, russia, CIS etc.

Do you want me to name the christian genocides in Africa?

What would the naming of Christian genocides prove? Could I cite the hundred million killed under atheist regimes? Oh no! But they weren't killed in the name of atheism!! Stalin actually went to a seminary. The Nazis had God on their uniforms. It's so pathetically disingenuous. Stalin, Mao and Hitler hated the churches and the religious leaders, priests and they were slaughtered while their churches were burned to the ground.

The French did the same to the clergy when they had their little revolution.

Does the murderous behaviour of these atheists invalidate atheism?

 

[GrayRanga]

It makes no sense. Who profited by these lies and myths? Why did the people who wrote the gospels and Acts lie and invent stories? People lie for power, wealth, sex, to hurt others or to get out of trouble- what motivated the gospel writers?

Why did Christianity take hold in the early years after Jesus' death? Why did Paul the criminal make up the story he told? What did he gain but a harsh life on the road and beatings, rejection and ultimately death? And why would Jesus appearing to Saul be a surprise? He called fishermen, a zealot and a tax collector to be his followers and apostles.

We are dealing with people and the attributes of the Human Condition do not chance from generation to generation

Take a secular example; Pauline Hanson was a member of the Liberal Party until she made some controversial comments that upset the party's leaders.

She was removed from preaching under the LNP pulpit and she took to her own populist pulpit. Some of the comments she made resonated wit those that considered that the LNP had lost contact with it's base

Despite a few blows, PHON is still a player after 30 years and Hanson and her Party still "profited by these lies and myths? Why did the people who wrote the gospels and Acts lie and invent stories? People lie for power, wealth, sex, to hurt others or to get out of trouble- what motivated the gospel writers?

Hanson is still alive and in Parliament, so her pulpit pronouncements still either cause a growing embarrassment to member of the Liberal Party and only resonates with her remaning followers.

Now imagine if she had died at her popularity and a well regarded and educated Bureaucrat well versed in Party took the reins of her movement and actively moved it into the broader political community by lowering the membership requirements and offering eternal political perfection by a revolution without having to storm the ramparts

 

[Total Power]

What would the naming of Christian genocides prove? Could I cite the hundred million killed under atheist regimes? Oh no! But they weren't killed in the name of atheism!! Stalin actually went to a seminary. The Nazis had God on their uniforms. It's so pathetically disingenuous. Stalin, Mao and Hitler hated the churches and the religious leaders, priests and they were slaughtered while their churches were burned to the ground.

The French did the same to the clergy when they had their little revolution.

Does the murderous behaviour of these atheists invalidate atheism?

Ideology is bad, any ideology...you think communism is any better than religion? Kim Jung Un is nothing but their cult leader basically. This is a pathetic argument. Authority is bad, whether it's the Communist manifesto, Mein Kampf or the Bible. When you follow authority it results in oppression. How did the Catholic church react when Darwin proposed the theory of evolution?

The point is Western society is great cause it doesn't let religion interfere in social issues. Now with Trump you see this coming back with banning abortion, family planning, divorce been bad (for a many who married many women) etc. Vast majority of the Christian countries outside of Europe/US are actually shitholes, guess why?

 

[Total Power]

So, Jesus, Pilate, Caiaphas and Paul were all real people who were used as characters in a made up tale? Cool story.

caiaphas - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Yep, completely made up myth.

The Historical Reliability Of The Gospel Of John

The Gospel of John is my favorite book in the Bible. Although I'm no expert on literature, I believe it is the most masterfully-crafted text I have ever

www.patheos.com

In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, major New Testament scholars dismissed the Gospel of John as having no historical credibility. This even included my friend Jimmy Dunn (James D. G. Dunn). They therefore regarded the Johannine Jesus as a fictional character. Their objection started with the fact that the first three gospels of the New Testament are similar summaries of the life of Jesus, often relating same pericopes; but they contended the Fourth Gospel, the Gospel of John, is so different from them and seems to portray Jesus as God that it must be inauthentic and therefore not present the historical Jesus. They have claimed that the Johannine Jesus is too rhetorical for reality. They also asserted that because Jesus is presented as God in the Gospel of John, this advanced theology reflects the later church’s developed christology and therefore not that of the real Jesus.

Here's wiki:

John the Apostle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Although the authorship of the Johannine works has traditionally been attributed to John the Apostle,[15] only a minority of contemporary scholars believe he wrote the gospel,[16] and most conclude that he wrote none of them.
and here's more

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Gospel of John is a relatively late theological document containing little accurate historical information that is not found in the three synoptic gospels, which is why most historical studies have been based on the earliest sources Mark and Q



I can go on, but you don't know how myth evolves. If Jesus was that important Josephus would have mentioned him in a better light than what he already did (that even a forged quote). It wasn't till 90 years after his death people realised he was God?

 

[domus]

It's evident everywhere, highly religious countries are really 3rd world nations. In the last 50 years of science and education religion has almost been wiped out of first world nations. America is also on track to be majority irrelegious by 2050. The proof is in the pudding. Why don't you name the most religious Christian/Muslim/Hindu countries?

Europe was the centre of science and Christian for centuries. The European countries had a higher standard of living and were producing scientists, great classical musicians like Beethoven Bach, Mozart and Chopin, magnificent art by Davinci and Michelangelo all of which have stood the test of time and almost all inspired by Christian belief.

Religion has not been wiped out of first world nations. What hyperbolic tripe.

 

[Total Power]

Europe was the centre of science and Christian for centuries. The European countries had a higher standard of living and were producing scientists, great classical musicians like Beethoven Bach, Mozart and Chopin, magnificent art by Davinci and Michelangelo all of which have stood the test of time and almost all inspired by Christian belief.

Religion has not been wiped out of first world nations. What hyperbolic tripe.

It's not that simple champ. It was Greece (paganism)/india (Hinduism) before that before you guys (and Muslims) got there. It was Islam before that too. I have written about it here, have a read. Much of it was stolen in Europe and church was quite hostile back then.

Your example about science and Christianity is not exclusive to Christianity, scientific thoughts often stemmed from religion back then,like Islamic golden era rose to such great heights (see my linked post i made a few years ago) and the downfall lies in religion again, pretty much like Christianity. Granted Scientists had their roots (like Islamic ones) in religion, but that's hardly accredited to Christianity. Do we give the credit of invention of zero to Hinduism? do we have credit for the existence of Algebra to Islam?

That's the post i made here explains pretty much everything you got wrong.

Here's a small sample of what Christians did when they went 'places'. The Greek culture was so advanced in mathematics, science, democracy and then Christians got there and the rest is history:

The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World by Catherine Nixey

An exceptional account of murder and vandalism wrought by religious zealotry – and one that suggests modern parallels

www.theguardian.com

Some tiny sample:

Many ancient Christians believed that the world we inhabit is a perilous place, crowded with malevolent supernatural beings, who sometimes manifest themselves in the form of fake gods. It is the Christian’s duty to root these out. Destroying a “pagan” statue or burning a book, then, is a no more violent act than amputating a gangrenous limb: you save the healthy whole by preventing the spread of the infection. If you think that a marble statue is possessed by a demon, then it makes a kind of sense to dig out its eyes and score a cross in its forehead

Christianity almost destroyed everything they touched but took credit for stealing things.

Also forgot to mention the raping and pillaging of the entire world by the 'advanced Christian societies ' (and also Muslims), which resulted in a higher standard of living? Been the British museum? Almost nothing there is actually British. Yet the dutch, Beligans, spanish, British, French, Italians killed billions worldwide and stole their resources

Evidence is also outside of Christian countries. Japan, South Korea two fabulous places to live in. Also embraced secularism where a major portion of the population are irreligious. Proof is in the pudding, you are refusing to admit it. But but but communism...that is a horrible argument.

So in the end, do we give credit to democracy, science, arts to Paganism? nope..so why should we give 'science' a free ride for Christianity? Yes many scientists were Christians, but they hardly used their faith for this unless it was slavery and misogyny and whoever opposed it was put to death.

In regards to death of Christianity, have the seen the trends amongst 16-29 year olds in Europe? almost all the western/nordic countries atleast half irreligious and growing..

Decline of Christianity in the Western world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Christianity is dying, this is irrefutable.

This is US. On track to be irregelious by 2050.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewresearch.org

You are wrong on almost every count. Why would they make a myth about Jesus? I am asking you to read a few things and then maybe we can talk again? Till then there's no point replying to you as you simply are asking kindergarten questions that's already been answered here multiple times.

In the previous page i provided you examples of manipulation and additions, these are literally in 100's.
Here's one more:

See The Acts of the Apostles by David Peterson

All the Greek manuscripts of John’s Gospel prior to the late fourth century or early fifth century omit the Pericope Adulterae (John 7:53–8:11). It is clearly a late addition.
Some of Paul’s undisputed epistles (Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Philemon, Galatians, Philippians and 1 Thessalonians) , although universally regarded as authentic, appear to consist of fragments of earlier Pauline epistles that have been salvaged and pieced together to create the epistles we have today. For example, 2 Corinthians is widely believed to have been created from three or perhaps four epistles that Paul had written earlier. Of course, the Deutero-Pauline epistles (2 Thessalonians, Ephesians, Colossians) and the Pastoral epistles (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy and Titus) were created after Paul’s death.

Need more? nah, i'll stop


But i don't have the will or time to list all of them..if you're interested i have given you all the resources on why the myth was made up and why the Jesus of snyoptics was completely different on John. That's the best i can do. Vast majority of the contemporary scholars agree with me. Quoting apologists won't do you any favor.

Please read, before commenting:

https://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512

 

[Total Power]

Please. You went there? Theists are dumb and atheists are intelligent. This is high school level crap. Atheists were almost cult like in their worship of the New Atheist gang of Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and Dennet. That died a death didn't it? Infighting and bickering erupted. The incessant sheep like laughter of the atheist audiences at every cheap put down of Christianity by Hitchens or Dawkins was cringeworthy.

This propensity for non-believers to tell believers why they believe what they do, is another example of the absolute arrogance so many possess. I would never deign to tell you why you are agnostic or atheist. Apparently, we are scared of death or clinging to our sky daddy. It's all so trite and pathetic.

I have barely ever mentioned Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett here or any atheist in this thread, unlike you trying to quote apologist website (who can't even get their historical facts right) to prove your point? I agree Dawkins should not comment on such matters, however i literally know no atheist who idolise them like Christians have blind faith and idolatry. Your first attempt at quoting a youtube page of an apologist public speaker posing as a scholar? Please! I do not idolise anyone, i speak facts about the OT and NT. I do not quote any atheist out there, none! i quote secular scholars, those who are experts in NT and OT. Neither did Roylion or anyone else posting here.

There are plenty of studies in this sphere:

Are Religious People Really, On Average, Less Smart than Atheists?

A new study addresses whether religiousity is associated with lower intelligence. Researchers report religious people appear to be predisposed to rely more heavily on intuition when it comes to decision making, over reasoning. They conclude cognitive training could allow religious minded people...

neurosciencenews.com

To investigate, Daws and Hampshire surveyed more than 63,000 people online, and had them complete a 30-minute set of 12 cognitive tasks that measured planning, reasoning, attention and working memory. The participants also indicated whether they were religious, agnostic or atheist.

As predicted, the atheists performed better overall than the religious participants, even after controlling for demographic factors like age and education. Agnostics tended to place between atheists and believers on all tasks. In fact, strength of religious conviction correlated with poorer cognitive performance. However, while the religious respondents performed worse overall on tasks that required reasoning, there were only very small differences in working memory.


OR

The famous HARVARD study

Study Finds Correlation Between Belief in God and Cognitive Style | News | The Harvard Crimson

There exists a correlation between an individual’s belief in God and his or her cognitive style, suggests a study by Harvard researchers published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology: General on Monday.

www.thecrimson.com

Poor cognitive ability.

You yourself, quote CARM, an absolutely disgraced site that supports Young earth creation and anti science rthetoric. But do you care? nope, you don't care about the source as long as it fits your BELIEF system. It's a Calvinist site run by Matt Slick, who is disgraced by Christians themselves. There's plenty of resource online, i am too tired to guide you here. You don't check your sources, you quote whatever fits your belief...not very smart.

You keep telling yourself this is highschool stuff. Facts are facts, religious people in this thread have shown extremely poor cognitive ability, to understand and grasp basic science even. Our mate Vdubs have as far as quoting a Young earth website in a desperate attempt to disprove evolution and Boston tiger , well, i don't count him as a halfwit even. His arguments are outright terrible, apparently atheists do not know how to love and we can't love anyone.

Solid arguments, really!

P.S I thought you were leaving?

 

[domus]

I have barely ever mentioned Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett here or any atheist in this thread, unlike you trying to quote apologist website (who can't even get their historical facts right) to prove your point? I agree Dawkins should not comment on such matters, however i literally know no atheist who idolise them like Christians have blind faith and idolatry. Your first attempt at quoting a youtube page of an apologist public speaker posing as a scholar? Please! I do not idolise anyone, i speak facts about the OT and NT. I do not quote any atheist out there, none! i quote secular scholars, those who are experts in NT and OT. Neither did Roylion or anyone else posting here.

There are plenty of studies in this sphere:

Are Religious People Really, On Average, Less Smart than Atheists?

A new study addresses whether religiousity is associated with lower intelligence. Researchers report religious people appear to be predisposed to rely more heavily on intuition when it comes to decision making, over reasoning. They conclude cognitive training could allow religious minded people...

neurosciencenews.com

To investigate, Daws and Hampshire surveyed more than 63,000 people online, and had them complete a 30-minute set of 12 cognitive tasks that measured planning, reasoning, attention and working memory. The participants also indicated whether they were religious, agnostic or atheist.

As predicted, the atheists performed better overall than the religious participants, even after controlling for demographic factors like age and education. Agnostics tended to place between atheists and believers on all tasks. In fact, strength of religious conviction correlated with poorer cognitive performance. However, while the religious respondents performed worse overall on tasks that required reasoning, there were only very small differences in working memory.


OR

The famous HARVARD study

Study Finds Correlation Between Belief in God and Cognitive Style | News | The Harvard Crimson

There exists a correlation between an individual’s belief in God and his or her cognitive style, suggests a study by Harvard researchers published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology: General on Monday.

www.thecrimson.com

Poor cognitive ability.

You yourself, quote CARM, an absolutely disgraced site that supports Young earth creation and anti science rthetoric. But do you care? nope, you don't care about the source as long as it fits your BELIEF system. It's a Calvinist site run by Matt Slick, who is disgraced by Christians themselves. There's plenty of resource online, i am too tired to guide you here. You don't check your sources, you quote whatever fits your belief...not very smart.

You keep telling yourself this is highschool stuff. Facts are facts, religious people in this thread have shown extremely poor cognitive ability, to understand and grasp basic science even. Our mate Vdubs have as far as quoting a Young earth website in a desperate attempt to disprove evolution and Boston tiger , well, i don't count him as a halfwit even. His arguments are outright terrible, apparently atheists do not know how to love and we can't love anyone.

Solid arguments, really!

P.S I thought you were leaving?

You keep responding so I'll respond in kind. The cognitive test focused on a certain set of skills and intelligence. Engineers tend to be atheist as they work with concrete, tangible facts. My son in law is a brilliant engineer and atheist but he has no social or emotional intelligence in certain settings. He does not recognize emotional responses and often misreads people's intent. This lack of emotional and social intelligence is more prevalent in the STEM fields.

But the intelligence study seems to lose its significance when you think of all the brilliant people, past and present, who are theists.

 

[domus]

It's not that simple champ. It was Greece (paganism)/india (Hinduism) before that before you guys (and Muslims) got there. It was Islam before that too. I have written about it here, have a read. Much of it was stolen in Europe and church was quite hostile back then.

Your example about science and Christianity is not exclusive to Christianity, scientific thoughts often stemmed from religion back then,like Islamic golden era rose to such great heights (see my linked post i made a few years ago) and the downfall lies in religion again, pretty much like Christianity. Granted Scientists had their roots (like Islamic ones) in religion, but that's hardly accredited to Christianity. Do we give the credit of invention of zero to Hinduism? do we have credit for the existence of Algebra to Islam?

That's the post i made here explains pretty much everything you got wrong.

Here's a small sample of what Christians did when they went 'places'. The Greek culture was so advanced in mathematics, science, democracy and then Christians got there and the rest is history:

The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World by Catherine Nixey

An exceptional account of murder and vandalism wrought by religious zealotry – and one that suggests modern parallels

www.theguardian.com

Some tiny sample:



Christianity almost destroyed everything they touched but took credit for stealing things.

Also forgot to mention the raping and pillaging of the entire world by the 'advanced Christian societies ' (and also Muslims), which resulted in a higher standard of living? Been the British museum? Almost nothing there is actually British. Yet the dutch, Beligans, spanish, British, French, Italians killed billions worldwide and stole their resources

Evidence is also outside of Christian countries. Japan, South Korea two fabulous places to live in. Also embraced secularism where a major portion of the population are irreligious. Proof is in the pudding, you are refusing to admit it. But but but communism...that is a horrible argument.

So in the end, do we give credit to democracy, science, arts to Paganism? nope..so why should we give 'science' a free ride for Christianity? Yes many scientists were Christians, but they hardly used their faith for this unless it was slavery and misogyny and whoever opposed it was put to death.

In regards to death of Christianity, have the seen the trends amongst 16-29 year olds in Europe? almost all the western/nordic countries atleast half irreligious and growing..

Decline of Christianity in the Western world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Christianity is dying, this is irrefutable.

This is US. On track to be irregelious by 2050.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip, with both Protestantism and Catholicism experiencing losses of population share.

www.pewresearch.org

You are wrong on almost every count. Why would they make a myth about Jesus? I am asking you to read a few things and then maybe we can talk again? Till then there's no point replying to you as you simply are asking kindergarten questions that's already been answered here multiple times.

In the previous page i provided you examples of manipulation and additions, these are literally in 100's.
Here's one more:

See The Acts of the Apostles by David Peterson



Need more? nah, i'll stop


But i don't have the will or time to list all of them..if you're interested i have given you all the resources on why the myth was made up and why the Jesus of snyoptics was completely different on John. That's the best i can do. Vast majority of the contemporary scholars agree with me. Quoting apologists won't do you any favor.

Please read, before commenting:

https://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-Behind-Changed/dp/0060859512

Christianity is dying? You wish. Look at England-the secular nation. As soon as their Queen died they went rushing back to church and religion. There was a great need in the community for something spiritual and many people commented on this incredible hunger which was aroused by the death of their beloved Queen.

There may be less bums on seats in churches but the average person still holds some form of belief which often emerges in times of crisis. Not because of fear but because the very meaning of life is thrust in front of their distracted faces for the first time in a long time.

Christianity is growing in Africa and Asia too. It is in no danger of disappearing.

 

[domus]

We are dealing with people and the attributes of the Human Condition do not chance from generation to generation

Take a secular example; Pauline Hanson was a member of the Liberal Party until she made some controversial comments that upset the party's leaders.

She was removed from preaching under the LNP pulpit and she took to her own populist pulpit. Some of the comments she made resonated wit those that considered that the LNP had lost contact with it's base

Despite a few blows, PHON is still a player after 30 years and Hanson and her Party still "profited by these lies and myths? Why did the people who wrote the gospels and Acts lie and invent stories? People lie for power, wealth, sex, to hurt others or to get out of trouble- what motivated the gospel writers?

Hanson is still alive and in Parliament, so her pulpit pronouncements still either cause a growing embarrassment to member of the Liberal Party and only resonates with her remaning followers.

Now imagine if she had died at her popularity and a well regarded and educated Bureaucrat well versed in Party took the reins of her movement and actively moved it into the broader political community by lowering the membership requirements and offering eternal political perfection by a revolution without having to storm the ramparts

What? How in the name of God did Jesus' early followers gain anything other than hardship and threats? I really have no idea about what you are trying to say.

 

[domus]

Yep, completely made up myth.

The Historical Reliability Of The Gospel Of John

The Gospel of John is my favorite book in the Bible. Although I'm no expert on literature, I believe it is the most masterfully-crafted text I have ever

www.patheos.com

In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, major New Testament scholars dismissed the Gospel of John as having no historical credibility. This even included my friend Jimmy Dunn (James D. G. Dunn). They therefore regarded the Johannine Jesus as a fictional character. Their objection started with the fact that the first three gospels of the New Testament are similar summaries of the life of Jesus, often relating same pericopes; but they contended the Fourth Gospel, the Gospel of John, is so different from them and seems to portray Jesus as God that it must be inauthentic and therefore not present the historical Jesus. They have claimed that the Johannine Jesus is too rhetorical for reality. They also asserted that because Jesus is presented as God in the Gospel of John, this advanced theology reflects the later church’s developed christology and therefore not that of the real Jesus.

Here's wiki:

John the Apostle - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Although the authorship of the Johannine works has traditionally been attributed to John the Apostle,[15] only a minority of contemporary scholars believe he wrote the gospel,[16] and most conclude that he wrote none of them.
and here's more

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Gospel of John is a relatively late theological document containing little accurate historical information that is not found in the three synoptic gospels, which is why most historical studies have been based on the earliest sources Mark and Q



I can go on, but you don't know how myth evolves. If Jesus was that important Josephus would have mentioned him in a better light than what he already did (that even a forged quote). It wasn't till 90 years after his death people realised he was God?

Caiaphas a made-up myth like Pilate? What are you on about? They discovered the High Priest's ossuary recently. And Pilate has already been proven to have existed and ruled in the very place the gospels tell us he ruled.

 

[Roylion]

Caiaphas a made-up myth like Pilate? What are you on about? They discovered the High Priest's ossuary recently. And Pilate has already been proven to have existed and ruled in the very place the gospels tell us he ruled.

That does not alter the fact that the Gospels were not written as historical accounts. The Gospels are works that are theological and are clearly written with a clear agenda to proselytize.

The Jesus of the Gospels is little more than a literary, theological construct, likely wrapped around a kernel of a minor historical figure (or minor historical figures), whose earthly remains lie mouldering somewhere under the city of Jerusalem. Miracles, resurrection, ascension, angels at birth and so on are fictional elaborations made by later authors. So too is any description in the gospels that alludes to the nature of god.

They are theological works written by man with an all too human agenda proselytizing a particular belief system. Full of embellishment and in some cases pure invention. Have you ever read historical fiction? Or watched a historical film? Does the portrayal of an actual historical figure such as George C Marshall and the mentions of D-Day, Hitler and so on make the events of 'Saving Private Ryan' true?

 

[peetoo]

Wow. Christianity and science went hand in hand once upon a time. How many of the great scientists were Christians? Western societies were founded on Christian values and beliefs. America was an overwhelmingly Christian country (and still is) until the past three decades but the world's most wealthy and powerful countries were all built by Christians. You cannot suddenly wipe away history because secularism has crept into these societies in recent decades. The foundations had already been laid down.

Christianity and science - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Muslims too