Bigman’s Training Reports

[AFC979810]

Don’t be facetious, he isn’t going to get suspended for doing a soccer celebration

(Obviously he shouldn’t have been suspended/dropped after the Port game, though)

So which is it?

He got suspended for a celebration. He has now said that he isn't going to stop his goal scoring celebrations.

Has Nicks realized he was an idiot for dropping him for a celebration and the club has acknowledged that they handled the whole situation terribly?

 

[George CantStandYa]

So which is it?

He got suspended for a celebration. He has now said that he isn't going to stop his goal scoring celebrations.

Has Nicks realized he was an idiot for dropping him for a celebration and the club has acknowledged that they handled the whole situation terribly?

Nicks has told him to kick no goals so it won’t be an issue

 

[adelaidecrows]

So which is it?

He got suspended for a celebration. He has now said that he isn't going to stop his goal scoring celebrations.

Has Nicks realized he was an idiot for dropping him for a celebration and the club has acknowledged that they handled the whole situation terribly?

What was clear was that Nicks and the Leadership group tried to get ahead of any potential backlash over Racheles showdown antics in the face of the loss and decided to throw him under the bus after the loss as the main reason. The fan backlash I think caught them all by surprise. They clearly thought fans would buy the bullshit like they normally do.

So in the face of the backlash I would be surprised if the board didnt have a very strong word to the leadership group and Nicks that they need to grow a set of balls and stay together as a team. Dont throw players under the bus for a loss. It was pathetic and im sure some of Dawsons and Lairds statements are something they truly wish they didnt make.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Man, I can’t wait to see him roam the forward line/wing this year

Will add yet another skill dimension

I dont know, maybe spend the first month in the Sanfl playing deep defense.

 

[Mostyn]

So which is it?

He got suspended for a celebration. He has now said that he isn't going to stop his goal scoring celebrations.

Has Nicks realized he was an idiot for dropping him for a celebration and the club has acknowledged that they handled the whole situation terribly?

He wasn't dropped just because he did that celebration.

Josh and Nicks both said there were multiple incidents and conversations they'd had in the lead up to the suspension

"I'll make it clear: this has nothing to do with the way Josh celebrates.

"In fact, we love the way Josh goes about his footy and the enjoyment he brings to the footy, it does send a real vibe through our group."

 

[Mostyn]

What was clear was that Nicks and the Leadership group tried to get ahead of any potential backlash over Racheles showdown antics in the face of the loss and decided to throw him under the bus after the loss as the main reason. The fan backlash I think caught them all by surprise. They clearly thought fans would buy the bullshit like they normally do.

So in the face of the backlash I would be surprised if the board didnt have a very strong word to the leadership group and Nicks that they need to grow a set of balls and stay together as a team. Dont throw players under the bus for a loss. It was pathetic and im sure some of Dawsons and Lairds statements are something they truly wish they didnt make.

Or maybe Josh had been acting like a bit of a dickhead and needed a wake-up call. It happens, and I don't think we can know.

He seems to have had a massive preseason and is very close with the playing group, so ultimately it could have been what he needed to hear. There seems to have been very little conflict or disagreement that came out of that moment, as much as fans were upset.

 

[George CantStandYa]

He wasn't dropped just because he did that celebration.

Josh and Nicks both said there were multiple incidents and conversations they'd had in the lead up to the suspension

"I'll make it clear: this has nothing to do with the way Josh celebrates.

"In fact, we love the way Josh goes about his footy and the enjoyment he brings to the footy, it does send a real vibe through our group."

lol, you believe that? Of course you would.

Nothing to do with the way he celebrates except for the way he celebrated against Port.

If there were other issues or not following instruction, how did he finish top 10?

 

[Cromulant]

lol, you believe that? Of course you would.

Nothing to do with the way he celebrates except for the way he celebrated against Port.

If there were other issues or not following instruction, how did he finish top 10?

Pretty much.

The Essendon celebration was brilliant. I don't think you'd find many coaches who would've been upset by that.

 

[Pugsley]

He wasn't dropped just because he did that celebration.

Josh and Nicks both said there were multiple incidents and conversations they'd had in the lead up to the suspension

"I'll make it clear: this has nothing to do with the way Josh celebrates.

"In fact, we love the way Josh goes about his footy and the enjoyment he brings to the footy, it does send a real vibe through our group."

Yeh, ok

 

[Cromulant]

Yeh, ok

I think we all know (most) that if he doesn't do that against Port, he plays against Sydney

 

[Pugsley]

I think we all know (most) that if he doesn't do that against Port, he plays against Sydney

I didn't want to offend him

 

[Mostyn]

I think we all know (most) that if he doesn't do that against Port, he plays against Sydney

So if he didn't do it, he wouldn't get punished? That's not a very controversial opinion, I completely agree.

He DID play against Port, so obviously they hadn't hit the final straw yet.

Maybe that was the absolute only issue, and for some reason that celebration and not every other was a massive issue.

Maybe it's what was said at the time by multiple people at the club - that there had been a series of small incidents that culminated at the Port game, and lead to a suspension.

Or maybe the board was upset and stepped in, though they don't seem to have ever done that before.

I guess people believe what matches up with their own perspective.

 

[Floating Doughnut]

The Milera, Worrell, Smith, Nank debate is a good one.

I know a lot of people having Cumming around the middle but he is an excellent kick and was used (when not injured) to take Kick-Ins at GWS.

How do others feel about seeing him float back at times to take it? You're not having Keane, Murray, or Butts ever take a kick in are you? Not Laird either. It HAS to be one of those other guys like Hinge.. or Cumming.

What do others think?

Keane was our highest kick in taker last year with 87 and kicks well.
I would prefer Cumming to take kick ins over anyone but sounds like he is playing further up the ground.
Wozz is a natural interceptor as is Keane, I figured our log jam at half back would push someone up
onto Sholl’s wing, as I can’t see Worrell playing two’s, we have to find a spot for him or the VIC clubs will be circling.

 

[Scorpus]

He wasn't dropped just because he did that celebration.

Josh and Nicks both said there were multiple incidents and conversations they'd had in the lead up to the suspension

"I'll make it clear: this has nothing to do with the way Josh celebrates.

"In fact, we love the way Josh goes about his footy and the enjoyment he brings to the footy, it does send a real vibe through our group."

This was an ass covering lie

 

[Mostyn]

This was an ass covering lie

Possibly, yeah.

They did a good job of all getting on the same page. If it was a lie, it was the same thing said by everyone involved.

I didn't love the public statements and felt it should have been kept in house - but Rachele seems to have taken another step forward with his professionalism and preparation this off season, so whatever you believe happened it doesn't seem to have done anything negative to him.

 

[BucketsNj]

He wasn't dropped just because he did that celebration.

Josh and Nicks both said there were multiple incidents and conversations they'd had in the lead up to the suspension

"I'll make it clear: this has nothing to do with the way Josh celebrates.

"In fact, we love the way Josh goes about his footy and the enjoyment he brings to the footy, it does send a real vibe through our group."

Agree - and really - abusing another team's supporters is dumb. And a bit immature. I've never heard any other footballer do it ever - it needed to be dealt with.

 

[Toucan Ocean]

"abusing" a bit strong! He pointed to his teeth, it was a light-hearted joke at best.

 

[Cromulant]

"abusing" a bit strong! He pointed to his teeth, it was a light-hearted joke at best.

True

But it wasnt the smartest thing to do.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Maybe.

They did a good job of all getting on the same page. If it was a lie, it was the same thing said by everyone involved.

I didn't love the public statements and felt it should have been kept in house - but Rachele seems to have taken another step forward with his professionalism and preparation this off season, so whatever you believe happened it doesn't seem to have done anything negative to him.

The fact is clubs like anything are imperfect and they will get things wrong from time to time. A good club that has a good relationship with its players will admit when they get it wrong. There is no doubt the fans did not buy the excuse and we all saw it for what it was. The club coped enormous backlash from the media all across the country for this decision. There is no doubt it caught the club and the leadership group by surprise.

Rachele hit the ground running in pre season and did everything right really quickly and didnt sulk. Which in my view suggests the playing group, the leadership and the club probably apologised for embarrassing him and trying to throw him to the wolves. Nicks is a relationship coach and as much as I hate on Nicks, this is probably one area he gets right behind the scenes.

He still would have had to accept his part in it though. Which would still serve as a wake up call. He wont want to be in that position again.

 

[adelaidecrows]

True

But it wasnt the smartest thing to do.

Rubbish. Port fans were feigning outrage. They werent insulted and people who were are lying or incredibly stupid morons who think a hat being knocked off their head by a player is assault.

 

[Cromulant]

Rubbish. Port fans were feigning outrage. They werent insulted and people who were are lying or incredibly stupid morons who think a hat being knocked off their head by a player is assault.

Which is a large portion of them.

It was a stupid thing to do, theres no other way to paint it.

But he didnt deserve to be dropped for it.

 

[Scorpus]

Maybe.

They did a good job of all getting on the same page. If it was a lie, it was the same thing said by everyone involved.

I didn't love the public statements and felt it should have been kept in house - but Rachele seems to have taken another step forward with his professionalism and preparation this off season, so whatever you believe happened it doesn't seem to have done anything negative to him.

The club claimed it was a series of incidents regarding his "team-first values and standards" and then weeks later awarded him a top 10 finish in the B&F

He also gained 30% of his B&F votes after round 16, so there was no drop off in how the coaches rated him on game day. The club basically said Rachele wasn't upholding standards, then weeks later confirmed he actually was upholding standards.

Complete and utter lie to suggest it wasn't related to the celebration

 

[Eric The Red]

Unfortunately a lot of supporters hold this view. They're happy to just make finals without actually being true contenders

Not sure that is fair. Would appear a bit misguided to think of oneself as a contender atm, esp after last year proved how fine a line it is between having your squad right to then bomb out. And publicly stating one’s lofty goals just invites media attention and ridicule if you don’t make it.
Teams readjust their goals and expectations as the season progresses. If they get a sniff of contending they will get plenty hungry gun for the Big Dance. Even if they don’t tell us.
The narrative we hear and see is not the same as the rhetoric that takes place in the inner sanctum.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Agree - and really - abusing another team's supporters is dumb. And a bit immature. I've never heard any other footballer do it ever - it needed to be dealt with.

Heard many club leaders throw a young player under the bus like Laird and others did?

 

[Eric The Red]

I agree to an extent, but to me it also shows we have a lot of depth in that area now.

Someone is going to miss out of Jones/Nank/Hinge/Sholl. Good position to be in, with the caveat that Jones has always been an exceptional pre season machine.

That kind of depth is exactly what we need to be successful.