Autopsy Rd 2 vs Hawks - Blues fight but lose due to lack of class and pace ... again

[berisha]

My question is what moves. We keep TDK we have no money who do we get rid of and who do we bring in. We need speed missing out on papley was a big miss a few years back. We aren't really a club that players want to go to.

It's either gotta be Curnow or McKay. Curnow is one of the laziest players I've ever seen. No second efforts and rarely chases, but when he's on he's unstoppable. McKay is the softest tall man to ever play the game.

They won't trade Curnow, so they should get rid of McKay to free up space to bring in a couple better role players than what we have.

 

[windows1]

If there is one thing good sides have sorted out that we have no clue how to do it’s systematic exit from D50.

We dump kicks 90 percent of the time.

Other teams ALWAYS have a player spare near the boundary for the exit and they handball until someone is free enough and good enough to hit a target.

Whoever has stolen Sam Walsh please return him.

 

[Opium]

Yep we drop off after half time, and in the last quarter we practically stall. Tonight we scored 4 points to Hawks 3.1 in the last quarter.

Our game style is so taxing. Players are spent. Everything is so hard for us.

We have too many passengers. Hollands at half back isn't working. 11 possessions and isn't providing us any run and is a poor kick. Fogarty was invisible. Acres too. Compare that to the Hawks wingers who run create and have elite kicking skills.
Our defence is the worst in the league. Structures are terrible.

Lastly list management. Selecting Evans and Haynes in the off season while giving away Kennedy, Martin, Owies and Carroll for a pick in the late 30s was a terrible list management decision. We have no depth.

We should of traded Zac Williams. I don't care for what but he's on 800k this year and next year. I would of given up a second round pick for any takers.
What a disaster he's been.

 

[Opium]

It's either gotta be Curnow or McKay. Curnow is one of the laziest players I've ever seen. No second efforts and rarely chases, but when he's on he's unstoppable. McKay is the softest tall man to ever play the game.

They won't trade and Curnow, so they should get rid of McKay to free up space to bring in a couple better role players than what we have.

Get rid of Williams. Offer them a second round pick. Free up 600k we may still have to pay the 200k difference. In not sure we'd have any interest in all honesty.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Love how people most probably were , we are shite 100 points and when we lose like that, they say the same shite stfu … we played decent , had our chances and didn’t make the most of it … Motlop kicks that before half
Time we are a chance . We gave it all and just not good enough …I think hawks don’t play their best we had our chances but just didn’t work for us but not gonna bag the team , we tried our best and that’s all I can ask

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I'm surprised by the inclusion of Motlop. Did make a couple of bad errors early but thought overall it was a pretty good showing. Provided plenty of pressure and had some impact up the ground - just couldn't get it through the big sticks with 1.3. Seems to be a problem with a lot of our players atm

In fairness 1 of the 3 misses hit 0.5mm of the post. Easily could have kicked the other 2.

 

[ETET]

I really don't understand comments like this. Sure everyone is frustrated but Hewett had 28 touches and 11 tackles. Hardly our worst, probably top 3 players for us tonight. That aside, take those 6 out of the team, who are you bringing in? Binns, moir, Wilson etc all untried and seemingly not ready for afl football. People suggest dropping players all the time but the reality is next in line is bleak - those players are not ready due to youth or injury and won't be an upgrade on 50% of the output of the guys you have listed. They struggle to perform consistently in the VFL, let alone what the would be able to do at AFL level.

I hear you the cupboard is bare but my frustration with Hewitt is that as mid you will get it 25-30 times a game, that cant be the measure. I don't want Hewitt getting the ball 30 times a game as he is not a creative player and a poor kick. He can tackle and fight but add his 30 to Walsh's 30 and then Cerra's 30. And that is 90 disposals that lack class, creativity, composure.

 

[RiCHii]

WARNING very unpopular opinion incoming ..

Come end of the year we need to make some serious list changes to put us in contention/sure up our future.

Trade Charlie .. has to be one of the biggest flat track bullies to pull on the jumper. For the life of me I cannot understand the hype around this bloke. Doesn't chase, sooks it up and won 2 Coleman medals off the back of beating up ordinary sides like North and West Coast. Whilst there is still hype around him, get him off the books, pick up 2 first round picks and sure up the future.

 

[TrueQldBlue]

WARNING very unpopular opinion incoming ..

Come end of the year we need to make some serious list changes to put us in contention/sure up our future.

Trade Charlie .. has to be one of the biggest flat track bullies to pull on the jumper. For the life of me I cannot understand the hype around this bloke. Doesn't chase, sooks it up and won 2 Coleman medals off the back of beating up ordinary sides like North and West Coast. Whilst there is still hype around him, get him off the books, pick up 2 first round picks and sure up the future.

I don't disagree. Two years ago I would have said you were crazy but now I'm over the one off efforts he does.
No chasing or following up once he hasn't marked the ball. There are so many moments that if he had turned around and chased we would have won the ball back because we have another player there struggling to win the ground ball with no back up.
He literally stops after he hasn't had his look at me moment.

How can this not have been trained out of him after all these years....??
At least Harry still chases and he is not as agile as Charlie is...
Very frustrating......


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[TrueQldBlue]

Also while I'm still pissed off 10 hours later...
I watched the Voss press conference and in the first minute he says he is happy with us ????
Yes it's better than last week's effort and for 3 quarters we put in intent and effort...but if a coach will preach that then that's what you are always going to get because the players must think they have done enough..good enough if the coach is happy.

Apparently we managed only eight goals from 54 inside 50's.

I wonder why..... could it be that we have no game plan except " BOMB IT LONG AND HOPE".... again and again and again...

Fot ****s sake.....

Ring ring....Hi Horse....how much to come and undo the bad teaching of the last three years and show our boys how to kick it out of the back line and hit targets all the way to the forward 50 ???

PAY HIM WHATEVER HE WANTS FOR TWO YEARS ..

PS... I was one of the first ones who was happy that we got Vossy....but I have been proven wrong...and I stand up and wear it.

As long as we can learn and get better...with someone else.

I'm late for work .....



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[Pixelshooter]

The fact we have no discernible game plan has so many flow on effects. When extreme pressure is applied by the opposition, both through physicality and good ball movement, it causes us to panic...fumbling and indecision flow on from that hich makes it doubly difficult to get back into games.

Sadly this all comes from the top down...sadly Vossy and the coaching group aren't the sharpest tools in the shed...so I'm not sure they have any idea how to turn it around with our current group.

Is there anthing more nauseating than entitled, arrogant Hawthorn supporters?

 

[TrueQldBlue]

Yes, Collingwood supporters

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[DangerousD]

His footy IQ hasn't developed from junior footy, doubt he remains an AFL footballer in the next year or 2

SOS will come for him

 

[TrueQldBlue]

If there is one thing good sides have sorted out that we have no clue how to do it’s systematic exit from D50.

We dump kicks 90 percent of the time.

Other teams ALWAYS have a player spare near the boundary for the exit and they handball until someone is free enough and good enough to hit a target.

Whoever has stolen Sam Walsh please return him.

This has annoyed the crap out of me every game...

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[Red Bull]

If only we had 18 Jsos’ one of a few that bleeds blue.

That’s all well and good but his set shot goal kicking is a serious momentum killer.
He is a serial offender and this incarnation of Carlton just can’t afford it.
It’s the backline or the bush for him.
That said, at least he has shots at goal to miss.
How long can Fogarty be carried as a forward who never ever hurts the opposition on the scoreboard where it counts the most.
Gunston came on, had 2 kicks, slotted them both … and put us to the sword !!
It could be argued Fogarty is applying more pressure to Carlton than the opposition …

 

[Garters]

My question is what moves. We keep TDK we have no money who do we get rid of and who do we bring in. We need speed missing out on papley was a big miss a few years back. We aren't really a club that players want to go to.

You try and see what you can get for a Walsh or McKay or both and use it to trade in as much pace as you can get. Although Walsh's contract is probably prohibitively high for other clubs to be interested to take on and us get what we need back, McKay not.
To make serious structural change to the list quickly. It will take something like this which I am not opposed with in principle depending on what is coming back the other way.

 

[jj1978]

Has anyone said what Harry's "illness" was??

Rain allergy? Scared of cheeky unsociable Hawks (ptsd is real)? Went blind looking at Sayers dikpic that someone posted on the club restroom wall? Took Voss’, “we’re still finding the best versions of ourselves” literally and booked a round world trip to find it?

Really who knows anymore with this club. He could be on a second strike for all we know or have a broken leg.

What we do know is an underdone Curnow is a valued at the club even if he’s just wrestling and walking around still hampered by whatever.

 

[T2B_]

Also while I'm still pissed off 10 hours later...
I watched the Voss press conference and in the first minute he says he is happy with us ????
Yes it's better than last week's effort and for 3 quarters we put in intent and effort...but if a coach will preach that then that's what you are always going to get because the players must think they have done enough..good enough if the coach is happy.

Apparently we managed only eight goals from 54 inside 50's.

I wonder why..... could it be that we have no game plan except " BOMB IT LONG AND HOPE".... again and again and again...

Fot ****s sake.....

Ring ring....Hi Horse....how much to come and undo the bad teaching of the last three years and show our boys how to kick it out of the back line and hit targets all the way to the forward 50 ???

PAY HIM WHATEVER HE WANTS FOR TWO YEARS ..

PS... I was one of the first ones who was happy that we got Vossy....but I have been proven wrong...and I stand up and wear it.

As long as we can learn and get better...with someone else.

I'm late for work .....



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Funny thing is the long bomb and hope isn't just into our forward line, it seems our strategy for exiting the defence too. Happens way too often for it not to be somewhat instructed.

 

[skadoosh]

I agree 100%. We have no spread. We are very relectant to gut run when we don't have the ball. The Hawks do this in spades.

Spot on. Nail on head here.

Our ball movement and run in attack looks so poor (forgetting about our poor execution for a second) because we ALWAYS have an opposition player hanging off our back. How often did we have players in free space because of the hard running they did prior? Nada.

Now look at it from the other side of things. Opposition HB and midfield cut us up with general ease when running the ball. They can execute the handballs and kicks. But what makes it so much easier is their prior gut running into space which demands the ball!
You'll see our players lagging behind having essentially 0 impact on the ball receiver.

 

[RPCB]

For all our “Number 17” talk on here over the years, you know that Collingwood will just quietly go out and do it this year.

 

[P_Crippy]

You try and see what you can get for a Walsh or McKay or both and use it to trade in as much pace as you can get. Although Walsh's contract is probably prohibitively high for other clubs to be interested to take on and us get what we need back, McKay not.
To make serious structural change to the list quickly. It will take something like this which I am not opposed with in principle depending on what is coming back the other way.

May be why it's probably a not a bad idea to change coaches so they have some time to influence list decisions.

 

[Soapy V]

Groundhog Day

WHY do we continually bomb it long inside forward 50? For three years the same thing over and over.

Even worse with a smaller forward line.

The difference of ball use between us and Hawks was stark. They hit targets and kick it to advantage. We blaze away. They also run to the right spots, they are so well drilled. The way they block, shepherd and create space for each other is brilliant. Impressive

Can’t question effort last night but we play dumb football again and again

I just don’t get it. We simply aren’t a good football side

 

[CCurnow3picks]

I had neutral supporters messaging me during the game mentioning how good he was now.

I thought he was one of the few real positives from the game.

Had 19 pos 6 tackles and a goal. Kicked 2 goals but for a snick on the post and could have easily had 4.

After last week I was with you but those are pretty unprecedented numbers from a Carlton small forward. He competed really hard.

Agreed.

His best game for us for some time. He kept his intent up all game.

 

[Benaly28]

Nic Newman has been a huge loss

 

[T2B_]

I had neutral supporters messaging me during the game mentioning how good he was now.

I thought he was one of the few real positives from the game.

Had 19 pos 6 tackles and a goal. Kicked 2 goals but for a snick on the post and could have easily had 4.

After last week I was with you but those are pretty unprecedented numbers from a Carlton small forward. He competed really hard.

It's a fair point. His lairising stuff like the attempted trap with his feet instead of picking it up properly can be frustrating, but overall he did really try.