Strategy Changes: Round 4 Fremantle vs. Western Bulldogs

[swanny1234]

Yep, fairly much in agreement on that one mate.

You're a bit more confident on Youngy than I am, but as soon as I saw the amount of guys possibly available for this weekend, I knew there was no way we were getting them all back at once.

That's just too many wholesale changes, and our MC just don't roll like that.

In this scenario I probably wouldn’t want them to either. We’ve gotten progressively better each week (it’s a very low bar of course as we were utterly putrid week 1), but I think it would be dangerous to have so many guys coming straight back from injury one week.

I’m confident on Young, mainly because that a bloke that good usually doesn’t come through the WAFL… perhaps he’ll just play more time forward? And could even be a vest candidate depending on how the game is going.

 

[Hamann188]

Just threw this hypothetical out there to a couple of work colleagues this morning.

Say Voss gets his act together this weekend and it all clicks for him and he and JT kick 5 each.

Do we keep him in the team when Swaggy comes back against the Tiges and if so, who gets dropped?

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

That may be so to a certain extent, but at the moment, he is a certainty to play.
I do not believe that Young will play.
If any one is an out, I am guessing it is RAz. I rated his game very highly on the weekend and I know he needs game time. But, is he more value than Banners with what we have?

I think even contending teams go off a guideline that's something like "If you can make a reasonable argument for a young player over an older player, play the young player".

Draper last year is a great example. There's a decent chance that persisting with him to the extent we did lost us 1 or 2 games early on. But that investment won us the Sydney game where he was so crucial. Almost certainly doesn't have that game without the prior experience. And right now, he's playing well enough that the investment in time looks like the right call.

Once the cavalry's proper back, unless Ras does something other worldly, by all means drop him. At that point I don't think there's a reasonable argument. But the way things are looking this week, it seems like there is/may be a reasonable argument.

 

[millsy]

Just through this hypothetical out there to a couple of work colleagues this morning.

Say Voss gets his act together this weekend and it all clicks for him and he and JT kick 5 each.

Do we keep him in the team when Swaggy comes back against the Tiges and if so, who gets dropped?

Does he hypothetically kick 5 straight or say 5.6?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Just through this hypothetical out there to a couple of work colleagues this morning.

Say Voss gets his act together this weekend and it all clicks for him and he and JT kick 5 each.

Do we keep him in the team when Swaggy comes back against the Tiges and if so, who gets dropped?

Jackson plays midfield

 

[Hamann188]

Does he hypothetically kick 5 straight or say 5.6?

Ohhhh, good counter.

For arguments sake, lets say 5.3.

Or 5.4.

 

[Hamann188]

Jackson plays midfield

Goes without saying Snuff, even if Voss isn't in the team when Swaggy comes back, Jackson should STILL go into the midfield.

 

[greatgatsby]

Jackson plays midfield

After you've shown him footage of Kouta and Goodes in their prime ... "this is how you play footy as a fully fledged unicorn"

 

[go_the_dockers]

I'd have him ahead of Sharp the way Sharp is going BUT he's still not best 23 and we are getting reinforcements over the next fortnight

How many other players do we have who can run 15k's a game?


This is why Sharp is hard to replace. O'Driscoll almost did that on the weekend, but Sharp did 16.6km in round 1. (I think he has been injured since or subbed off, I don't think he has run more than 13k since)

Maybe Wagner could play that role, but I don't really want Worner to stay in.

Having said all this, if he is not fully fit find someone else to do the role until he is.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Jackson plays midfield

Within this, you'd have to imagine Jackson plays significant time fwd even if we pull the trigger with Jackson midfield time. Wonder if that involves either rotating defenders forward for spells rather than just benching them with the tall timber there (Cox obviously the primary example) or shoehorning players as medium fwds who can play taller, at least for spells. With Sturt out, we have a dearth of that type.

I still see the "default" lineup as being relatively "boring" - Jackson fwd, the defenders play defence, etc. But with how much JL talked about players having secondary positions, this is surely the season we should be able to throw different looks at other teams and see how they deal with it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

How many other players do we have who can run 15k's a game?


This is why Sharp is hard to replace. O'Driscoll almost did that on the weekend, but Sharp did 16.6km in round 1. (I think he has been injured since or subbed off, I don't think he has run more than 13k since)

Maybe Wagner could play that role, but I don't really want Worner to stay in.

Having said all this, if he is not fully fit find someone else to do the role until he is.

I dont doubt there is magical benefit to just running up and down a wing all day providing "spacing" but the guy is just not doing anything the few times he does get it and making several cat 10s a game. There is no way 2 more km's run a game is worth more in the current actual output

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Within this, you'd have to imagine Jackson plays significant time fwd even if we pull the trigger with Jackson midfield time. Wonder if that involves either rotating defenders forward for spells rather than just benching them with the tall timber there (Cox obviously the primary example) or shoehorning players as medium fwds who can play taller, at least for spells. With Sturt out, we have a dearth of that type.

I still see the "default" lineup as being relatively "boring" - Jackson fwd, the defenders play defence, etc. But with how much JL talked about players having secondary positions, this is surely the season we should be able to throw different looks at other teams and see how they deal with it.

I'd really rather he stays out of the forwardline. It's not that he's bad there, it's that he's much better around the ball. We dont HAVE to play three talls in the forwardline, hawks play basically 1 at the moment. Get the best talent in their best spots and figure it out around that

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

I'd really rather he stays out of the forwardline. It's not that he's bad there, it's that he's much better around the ball. We dont HAVE to play three talls in the forwardline, hawks play basically 1 at the moment. Get the best talent in their best spots and figure it out around that

Eh, I think we might have to with the way we play. Putting an asterisk on sample size, in terms of speed of ball movement, we hang onto the ball per possession longest by far (time from possession to disposal), but we go very direct once we kick it (longest distance gained per kick). Idk how that ball movement profile works if you're going smaller in the fwd line. You may well say that that style in the first place is wrong and question coaching. But once we're playing that style, the selection has to fit that style.


(time stamped to relevant bit, but the whole segment gives a bit of context).

Something to watch out for on this re the posts on lacking players with foot speed, and how our past 2 games haven't been "sprint games". Geelong are rapid in terms of getting rid of it quickly, while Sydney and West Coast are in the bottom 4. Bulldogs are in that Geelong profile. So while it's easy to say Round 1 was just a mulligan, it'll be interesting to see if we can defend and keep up with a team that will force us to run.

 

[dont bowl there]

Eh, I think we might have to with the way we play. Putting an asterisk on sample size, in terms of speed of ball movement, we hang onto the ball per possession longest by far (time from possession to disposal), but we go very direct once we kick it (longest distance gained per kick). Idk how that ball movement profile works if you're going smaller in the fwd line. You may well say that that style in the first place is wrong and question coaching. But once we're playing that style, the selection has to fit that style.


(time stamped to relevant bit, but the whole segment gives a bit of context).

Something to watch out for on this re the posts on lacking players with foot speed, and how our past 2 games haven't been "sprint games". Geelong are rapid in terms of getting rid of it quickly, while Sydney and West Coast are in the bottom 4. Bulldogs are in that Geelong profile. So while it's easy to say Round 1 was just a mulligan, it'll be interesting to see if we can defend and keep up with a team that will force us to run.

This game is going to be fascinating, IMO there was almost 0 to take out of the Eagles training run. That last quarter was played at a slower tempo than a WAFL match.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

You may well say that that style in the first place is wrong and question coaching. But once we're playing that style, the selection has to fit that style.

All interesting points but it really does come back to this. The current style is not making us a contender and needs to change. We have a unicorn which lets us have midfield dominance while running smaller in the forwardline. Maximise the list

 

[Jezzitizle]

It’ll be a real test to see if the midfield return to form is a false dawn.

And the dogs have the back half foot skills to open us up. We are going to have to be really organised and put good pressure on if we want to play our way.

 

[rgauci]

Just threw this hypothetical out there to a couple of work colleagues this morning.

Say Voss gets his act together this weekend and it all clicks for him and he and JT kick 5 each.

Do we keep him in the team when Swaggy comes back against the Tiges and if so, who gets dropped?

I’d be open to giving Voss the disrupter role that Banfield has at the moment.

Not a huge difference in kicking skills or endurance, but Voss applies more pressure. I’d imagine that Banfield would follow coach advice a lot closer.

 

[anchor man]

Does he hypothetically kick 5 straight or say 5.6?

If he kicks 5/6 every week then he gets a game. Same as Amiss, even though he got a couple of out the back goals, he kicked them.That is what he is paid to do,
I like the way Voss plays, but his record of goal kicking from last year doesn't give confidence.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I dont doubt there is magical benefit to just running up and down a wing all day providing "spacing" but the guy is just not doing anything the few times he does get it and making several cat 10s a game. There is no way 2 more km's run a game is worth more in the current actual output

Interestingly, Simmo was talking about Chris Masten playing this same role in 2018 and that he didn't think they win the 2018 flag otherwise.

I think the extra 2km of hard running makes a noticeable difference at the end of the day. Its about 15 more entire field lengths covered across the 4 quarters.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Interestingly, Simmo was talking about Chris Masten playing this same role in 2018 and that he didn't think they win the 2018 flag otherwise.

I think the extra 2km of hard running makes a noticeable difference at the end of the day. Its about 15 more entire field lengths covered across the 4 quarters.

There actual output from playing football matters at some point in the scale though, otherwise we'd just pay Peter Bol bargain rates and stick him on a wing

 

[swanny1234]

He looks silly, but his current form and repositioning makes us look silly. Beveridge is hit and miss, but Lobb is a success story.

Just goes to show how stubborn and unimaginative JLo is as a coach. He never would’ve even considered sending Lobb back.

 

[swanny1234]

There actual output from playing football matters at some point in the scale though, otherwise we'd just pay Peter Bol bargain rates and stick him on a wing

Can he kick any worse than Sharp?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

On the changes, it's real hard but I'll assume all of JOM, Fyfe, Young and Wagner come in. I dont think that's an influx of half fit players given Fyfe's WAFL time and JOM/Wagner missing only a week. Makes it damn hard.

Out: Aish, Worner, Banfield, Sharp

Wagner Pearce Ryan
Clark Cox Chapman
Noddy Serong Young
Freddy Treacy Bolton
Voss Amiss Reid

Jackson Brayshaw Johnson

JOM Dudley Draper Erasmus

Sub: Fyfe

I am genuinely torn between Ras and Banners but leaning Ras becomes he deserves the same go everyone else has already had. If Dudley plays well, Switta and Darcy next week will make it even harder

 

[swanny1234]

Just threw this hypothetical out there to a couple of work colleagues this morning.

Say Voss gets his act together this weekend and it all clicks for him and he and JT kick 5 each.

Do we keep him in the team when Swaggy comes back against the Tiges and if so, who gets dropped?

Darcy doesn’t come in, simple. I see no issue in Darcy playing 2-3 weeks in the WAFL and really putting a body of work in.

 

[gungho]

It’ll be a real test to see if the midfield return to form is a false dawn.

And the dogs have the back half foot skills to open us up. We are going to have to be really organised and put good pressure on if we want to play our way.

It's definitely a worry. I reckon a midfield of Darcy, JOM, Fyfe, Young and Erasmus would get opened up on the counter attack. Need Andy, Jacko, Noddy, Bolton in there to cover players defensively.