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List Mgmt. Honest analysis of our playing list - "is it the cowboy, or the cattle?"
- Thread starter Chadwiko
- Start date
- Tagged users None
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The reality is that at the start of the game, your list rankings are accurate. Or close enough.
But once we get down, and heads drop, every player goes down at least one grade, and the majority (bar Sheezel, Xerri, Curtis, Parker & Wardlaw really) go down 2 grades.
When the going gets tough, and the margin is 45 late in the 3rd and the only thing to play for is pride, habits & little wins:
LDU - F
Simpkin - D
McDonald - F
Daniel - F
Larkey - D
Comben - F
Corr - F
Logue - F
Zurhaar - G
And so on.
Just pissweak pathetic responses. The way the last fortnight of 2024 was waved away by the entire club & many fans was ridiculous. You’re telling me that after 2020-2024 inclusive, you can’t at least try for the fans in those last 2 rounds? You just concede embarrassing beltings? And then get amazed that when you ignore the best kind of training you can do (actual games against other sides, even when there’s nothing to play for season wise) all of a sudden the same weak attitude permeates into games that have meaning??
But once we get down, and heads drop, every player goes down at least one grade, and the majority (bar Sheezel, Xerri, Curtis, Parker & Wardlaw really) go down 2 grades.
When the going gets tough, and the margin is 45 late in the 3rd and the only thing to play for is pride, habits & little wins:
LDU - F
Simpkin - D
McDonald - F
Daniel - F
Larkey - D
Comben - F
Corr - F
Logue - F
Zurhaar - G
And so on.
Just pissweak pathetic responses. The way the last fortnight of 2024 was waved away by the entire club & many fans was ridiculous. You’re telling me that after 2020-2024 inclusive, you can’t at least try for the fans in those last 2 rounds? You just concede embarrassing beltings? And then get amazed that when you ignore the best kind of training you can do (actual games against other sides, even when there’s nothing to play for season wise) all of a sudden the same weak attitude permeates into games that have meaning??
Only Forwards
Just you wait and see
Chadwiko my take on the it’s the cows not the cowboy is that it is merely an excuse.
Right now I think Ross Lyon would get more out of our players on a consistent basis.
I hate Ross Lyon and his football.
But he can communicate roles that players understand and can get close to executing.
Right now whatever we are trying is not working on any level at all.
Defence is shambles and today the opposition took basically our only strength away from us.
It’s not all the cows.
Right now I think Ross Lyon would get more out of our players on a consistent basis.
I hate Ross Lyon and his football.
But he can communicate roles that players understand and can get close to executing.
Right now whatever we are trying is not working on any level at all.
Defence is shambles and today the opposition took basically our only strength away from us.
It’s not all the cows.
Chadwiko
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- #29
Eh, I don't rate Ross Lyon at all so I disagree. But regardless I kinda get what you're saying.
But I think you're overlooking the biggest issue (in my opinion); our lack of homegrown, home-developed 26-30 year olds in that 150-250 games played bracket that have been here from the beginning and can set the standards and pull the younger guys and newly acquired veterans together behind a common goal and a coherent gameplan.
Instead, we have... Luke McDonald.
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You don’t rate Lyon at all, yet he gets players like Jimmy Webster much more competitive than McDonald?
He doesn’t need a heap of home grown 150 gamer 27 year old brown hair right handed good eyesight born in suburbs players.
He gets Liam Stocker playing a competitive lock down role. A forward line consisting of Jack Higgins, Cooper Sharman & a pre school becomes weaponised.
Are they going to win the flag? No. Not with that cattle. It’s not Lyons fault that players like Webster, Stocker, Sharman & Byrnes aren’t playing in a flag. But are they routinely disgraced, while getting games into NWM, Phillipou, Wilson, Caminiti as a backman, Windhager, Hall etc? No. They play good drilled footy & team defend, and the hope for Ross is over Time he can churn over the initial list of spuds and Put actual weapons in their place.
St Kilda were younger & less experienced than us last week.
But since their round 1 thrashing, they’ve responded to sit just out of the 8 on %. Played for pride. And have defended as a team.
While being younger than us.
Had a tough game v GWS last week who were hot. 8 goals at 3/4 time. Time to fall away? Not a chance. Lock in boys. Finish the game off, respectable 28 point margin & NWM got invaluable midfield time, Hastie came on as sub & actually played a match that had some intensity and needed him to do his bit - even though the result was gone. Just good habits good habits good habits.
St Kilda have been the joke of the competition for a century.
We just took over the punchline.
But since their round 1 thrashing, they’ve responded to sit just out of the 8 on %. Played for pride. And have defended as a team.
While being younger than us.
Had a tough game v GWS last week who were hot. 8 goals at 3/4 time. Time to fall away? Not a chance. Lock in boys. Finish the game off, respectable 28 point margin & NWM got invaluable midfield time, Hastie came on as sub & actually played a match that had some intensity and needed him to do his bit - even though the result was gone. Just good habits good habits good habits.
St Kilda have been the joke of the competition for a century.
We just took over the punchline.
What about getting a poor list out of the bottom 3? When “in the long run” do we finish above 16th? Can it be soon? I’m sick of hearing how every other club ( & opposing player or coach) is bad when evidence suggests we are the ****ing worst by a country mile.
Tigers & Eagles & Demons at least have 5 of the last 8 flags before joining us.
Tigers & Eagles & Demons at least have 5 of the last 8 flags before joining us.
Only Forwards
Just you wait and see
I’d love to see what the talent we do have could do if they were able to stand on the shoulders of the limited players we have playing a role.
He was a bounce of the ball away. And that narrative changes massively.
How many bounces of the ball away are we? It’s not ****ing one that’s for sure. It’s at least 22,000.
It’s not about Ross Lyon but it is about how coaches can take players to new places. Nick Suban to a grand final if I remember correctly. It’s about how coaches find ways to motivate young players to become good senior players quickly and not just saying “but but 6 year rebuild” while ignoring the consistent poor habits that are formed everytime we play a game that is over or meaningless.
Ding ding ding.
Lyon is a flog agreed, but his role players do outstanding jobs.
Riewoldt, Goddard, Fyfe, Pav etc go out & perform regardless of their coach. Lyon got the best out of the Gilbert, Jones, Crowley & Suban types to get them to a grand final.
And then he ran into a Geelong juggernaut who when we do team of the generation 2000-2025 still routinely have 6-7 nominations in the top 40 or so, and then a ball bounced away from Milne but no, he’s no good because he DiDn’T wiN a GraNd fInaL
Chadwiko
The Captain!
- Sep 25, 2004
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- #41
But as the OP shows, this list is not a 'good coach away'.
In the last 5~ years we've gone through;
Shaw
Crocker
Noble
Adams
Ratten
Clarko
And every single one of those coaches/interims has dished up thumpings, uninspired footy, and a general lack of competitiveness.
At some point we have to understand why we're experiencing the same results regardless of the coach; our list sucks and it's going to suck for... quite a while.
DocSholl
Premiership Player
- Aug 10, 2021
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Maybe we're just picking the wrong coaches? You can't rule that out just because we've gone through a few. Also a bit disingenuous including Crocker and Patch in that list
Chadwiko
The Captain!
- Sep 25, 2004
- 30,344
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- Washington Commanders, Boston Celtics
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- #44
Okay, let's say I agree with you (I'm not personally writing Clarko off yet, but for the sake of argument let's accept your assertion there).
If the list is shit and the coach is shit, will changing the coach achieve anything until the list is better? The answer is 'no'.
Therefore, priority #1 has gotta still be fixing the list, no?
Agreed.
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What happened to “E”?
You could have cut poor CCJ some slack and given him an E. Mind, I suppose F for ****ed is pretty accurate.
Send me back to finger painting class and I'll be able to tell you.
