Autopsy Cats lose to GWS by 4 points

[CatToTheFuture]

I doubt George is going to have a huge influence, and even more so doubt that he's the answer.

Let's be real here though, we just had a bloke have three possessions in three quarters of football. I'm rarely this harsh, but that's genuinely piss poor.

The bar is in the gutter right now for those last three or so spots in the 23.

Luckily it's likely to improve greatly with Stanley, Laws, Stewy, Henry, and Kolo back, and maybe even Martin, Guth and TB if we're lucky.

Let's not kid ourselves here though. In the meantime, you could pluck a player out of the Shanghai Footy League ane we'd get the same production that we're getting out of Jhye (among others) right now.

It would actually be impressive for George to be any worse.

I get people want an answer but some questions don't have answers.

The easiest way forward, with the available players we had today is to put Ted back in for the full game and drop Clark. Wiltshire sub or give retschko a go. Polkinghorne for Henry is also an option to consider.

 

[Commando]

So it’s your fault

Certainly feels like it

 

[cats_09]

One play that's kinda been overlooked the review of the thread is Dempsey not making the distance on a snap set shot at goal from 20m out in the second, while we also had no one on the line to try and shepherd the ball through

It was a shocking kick from Dempsey and no excuses for not making the distance, but what happened with the breakdown with no one on the line?

Think there's a bit in these tiny passage for the coaches to go over with our forwards in the match review

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'm not quite ready to give up on Clark - today wasn't good and he's got to be back to the VFL next week, but where he & we go from here, I'm not sure

There needs to be an honest conversation between the player & club about what they each see the future being about - if the club sees him as more of an outside player for now, then allow him the opportunity to spend time playing that role in the VFL. Maybe it's about splitting time between CBA and starting on the wing, but still attacking contests hard regardless of where he finds himself on the ground

Maybe the other part of that conversation is if they see him as part of the future or if they're open to options come seasons end

Always back them until you sack them, and given the volume of retirements still to come I can see him here until the end of 2027 even if that's mostly vfl. But there's a reason we're apparently talking to half the contested type mid in the comp

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Steak knives for Reid. Throw Clohesy in as a sweetener. Hell, would they be interested in Bowes? I'm not sure I see any of them in a premiership side. Bowes is really not giving us enough for his age and experience level.

Bowes is giving a hell of a lot more than some

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

One play that's kinda been overlooked the review of the thread is Dempsey not making the distance on a snap set shot at goal from 20m out in the second, while we also had no one on the line to try and shepherd the ball through

It was a shocking kick from Dempsey and no excuses for not making the distance, but what happened with the breakdown with no one on the line?

Think there's a bit in these tiny passage for the coaches to go over with our forwards in the match review

It was one of those days, and I knew in the first quarter that it would go down to the wire and ultimately we would find a way to lose it, and it played out exactly like that.

Just adds to the frustration when you know what’s going to unfold before it does.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'd be interested to know how the coaching staff see Clark's game.

Against Brisbane be was clearly bad. Didn't get it and had a few really bad moments like dropping a chest mark deep in defence.

The only things I really remember from today were a nice left foot kick in defence that Bowes somehow dropped and him cracking in a few times without anything coming of it. He's one of the only guys I can't remember an obvious mistake from today. But then I can't really remember him doing anything.

It would interesting to know if structurally he played his role and just never got the ball or he was weak without the ball too.

 

[Commando]

It was one of those days, and I knew in the first quarter that it would go down to the wire and ultimately we would find a way to lose it, and it played out exactly like that.

Just adds to the frustration when you know what’s going to unfold before it does.

Sadly agree
I wasn't at all confident and said we'd find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot

And we did.

 

[Mr Meow]

Bowes is giving a hell of a lot more than some

He gets his 12-15 unthreatening touches and chases tail for the rest, giving away scrappy free kicks or making mistakes. Has the odd great quarter but was a lot better in 2024. We need better from a 27 year old approaching 150 games.

We used to have 2019 era Mitch Duncan, Zach Tuohy or Tim Kelly in that sort of role at that age.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I'd be interested to know how the coaching staff see Clark's game.

Against Brisbane be was clearly bad. Didn't get it and had a few really bad moments like dropping a chest mark deep in defence.

The only things I really remember from today were a nice left foot kick in defence that Bowes somehow dropped and him cracking in a few times without anything coming of it. He's one of the only guys I can't remember an obvious mistake from today. But then I can't really remember him doing anything.

It would interesting to know if structurally he played his role and just never got the ball or he was weak without the ball too.

He did one kick forward to Stengle in a 3 on one which was a mistake but i think it was mostly that he vanished. Like that mistake was one of only 3 disposals

It's worth seeing if there's anything going on with him because Clohesy was only subbed on for the 4th quarter and Clark spent 55 minutes on the ground, meaning he spent more than a full quarter on the pine.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

He gets his 12-15 unthreatening touches and chases tail for the rest, giving away scrappy free kicks or making mistakes. Has the odd great quarter but was a lot better in 2024. We need better from a 27 year old approaching 150 games.

We used to have 2019 era Mitch Duncan, Zach Tuohy or Tim Kelly in that sort of role at that age.

We needed better from a lot of players though, I wouldn't single him out

 

[Munich]

Bowes is giving a hell of a lot more than some

I reckon he's improved the last month.

I didn't take much notice of him prior to that but I've seen some good things which means he's standing out more.

To me anyway.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Clark is predictably the biggest overreaction.

He played a very solid game last week. He didn't get near it today. Last week or the first half against Stkilda didn't suddenly mean he'll be a good player and today or the game against Brisbane didn't suddenly mean he'll never make it.

He's miles off it physically. As a pure mid that makes things difficult because playing him in there risks us being uncompetitive in a key area of the ground. He's obviously not a winger but we're out of options right now. He did the job last week. Didn't this week.

Things change fast though. It's funny that people are begging for Bruhn to come back. Early in the third year of his career he was going every bit as badly as Clark is now (which isn't as badly as most around here think tonight).

This is the problem though, he didn't play a "very solid game" he played a passable game, and that's being generous because he's still young.

We'd chastise Bowes or MOC for playing the exact same game as he did last week, and we'd eviscerate Murdoch, GHS, Constable, Lang, or Smedts in a different era for doing the same.

I'm not even one to criticize players, particularly younger ones. Anyone who knows my posting history can attest to that.

...But if we're going to lower the bar to the mariana trench for one player, then we do it for everybody, or we don't do it at all.

I've said if before, but if Jhye was playing for Richmond, we'd be laughing at the Tugger supporters defending what he's serving up, and we're doing the exact same thing.

It's not an overreaction to say he's a passenger, which is all anyone's been saying. If he isn't, then there's not many who are league wide.

 

[Mr Meow]

We needed better from a lot of players though, I wouldn't single him out

We have positions of need that Bowes would greatly help us with if he even delivered B grade level. Wingman, rebounding half back or midfielder. He's doing a bit of each but none very well. The corpse of Mitch Duncan (even with his couple of errors) shouldn't be finding and using the ball much better than a 27 year old Jack Bowes. Atkins is putting him to shame, with less raw talent.

His best is very good but we see it about 20% of the time.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Easily could have won that had we shown up in the first 10 minutes and not constantly missed sitters. 14.17 tells the story. Not being able to convert on our own home deck is pretty disappointing.

We really suffer from a lack of depth across the side, with our bottom few players being very poor. In particular, the absence of Hawkins and Cameron (seeing as we now play him everywhere but up forward) is pronounced through the poor performance of the forward half group.

Fair to give Neale the shot, but the jury is out on whether he'll make it, and we just have to grit our teeth and bear that while he's building experience in the hope he'll come good. Concern is how he's not really showing the glimpses that indicate he's a star key forward in the making. Meanwhile, those around him are all horribly out of form. Stengle seems to have been satiated by his last contract and is now just coasting. Henry his usual self and Close not doing much. We're reliant on Dangerfield and Mannagh in the forward line or we're no chance.

We had guys missing but so did GWS so it's not really an excuse. Their forwards murdered our under-manned backline, but our midfield also took advantage of the numbers they have missing in that part of the ground. We just couldn't make the most of it.

 

[Munich]

I almost forgot that Atkins took a ruck CBA.

Wild

Was it better than Jezza's attempt?

 

[Footy Smarts]

This is the problem though, he didn't play a "very solid game" he played a passable game, and that's being generous because he's still young.

We'd chastise Bowes or MOC for playing the exact same game as he did last week, and we'd eviscerate Murdoch, GHS, Constable, Lang, or Smedts in a different era for doing the same.

Sorry but this is complete and utter bullshit.

Last week Clark had numerous really positive contributions and didn't make a bad mistake all night. I'd bet the coaches had him in our top 10 on the night and in our top few in terms of playing the role asked of him.

If you're critical of him last week you clearly spend more time looking at the stats sheet than the game.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Was it better than Jezza's attempt?

I don't think it will make a highlights reel

 

[Munich]

Sorry but this is complete and utter bullshit.

Last week Clark had numerous really positive contributions and didn't make a bad mistake all night. I'd bet the coaches had him in our top 10 on the night and in our top few in terms of playing the role asked of him.

If you're critical of him last week you clearly spend more time looking at the stats sheet than the game.

He was wayyyyyyy better last week, agree.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Have you been watching Melbourne? Don't want to derail the thread here but he makes them 3-4 goals worse and would do the same to us

They nailed the Langford and Lindsey picks .

Imagine having Langford ..oh yes please.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Clark .
But mostly shite.
But sometimes good.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They nailed the Langford and Lindsey picks .

Imagine having Langford ..oh yes please.

Yeah I feel for the kids they've drafted too. Imagine having to do twice as much defensive gut running, to save half as many goals, to cover a guy earning literally over a million dollars more than you per season?

I can't pretend to understand why Melbourne are playing him, but whatever it is it's not a good enough reason

 

[#cats2021]

This team needs a psychologist if they haven't got one.

Losing to the same teams every year without fail, it defies belief. GWS aren't even good this year and we still can't get it done.

They should be embarrassed. 5-0. Laughable.

SDK becoming a bigger problem with every week, when will this board and the wider club start holding him accountable? For every step forward he takes its five steps back. He should be anchoring this defence in the absence of others but instead he's giving Hogan 45m of open space. It is simply unacceptable.

Clark's papers are stamped.

 

[Catsace]

Deja vu again (again, again) with GWS, who really must absolutely LOVE playing at KP. But in the cold light of thinking about it, it's hard to be too downcast given the realities.

GWS has a bunch of highly talented players picked early in drafts, and they are a talented team in all lines. Contested marking beasts, a big solid ruckman (which we just don't have), and very quick players who are daring and break lines.

And you could probably pick any side in the comp and remove four 1st choice defenders from their side and it would make a huge difference. Say Moore, Quaynor, Crisp and Howe from the Pies or similar, they would have trouble with the likes of Hogan, Cadman and Riccardi. Several times poor Zuthrie was flying against at least two of that group whilst SDK was caught out of position. Hogan also kicked magnificently whereas the side of the barn was fairly safe from being struck with some of our shots.

But we had 31 scoring shots against the Giants who are always up for us despite the pick and choose efforts they throw up against other sides....against Geelong they always 'pick' us. It's super frustrating to lose by 4 points, but last week we plucked a similar win, so if it's close it's always more 50/50. The Pie's record in that '22-23 era in close games was just beyond all normalcy, one would be dreaming if they expect to win every close one.

I'm pretty sure in my memory as a Cats fan we've never lost 5 in a row against the one side at KP in succession, perhaps Essendon '82, 83, 85, 86..nah as we won in '87 there against them. May have to go back to the 1941-49 era or something when we were awful during and after WW2 due to having to sit out from the comp.

However, surely we can start to get some troops back. I loved Bews today, his dash and dare kicking made him a 60 metre player and it's something that helped a lot, given usually only Holmes and Bailey can do that. Stanley if it's his hammy is still out a while, and I hope at some stage the apparition of Conway can be considered, but he's making peak H & A Clark Keating

Clark Keating

Age

49

Ht

197cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.9

3star

HO

13.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

HO

4.2

5star

look like Jim Stynes with his inability to get near the park let alone on it. Sadly Jack Martin

19

Jack Martin

Age

30

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

's fragile body has yet to come up as well, so with another mid we all know unavailable our squad is kind of resembling the period where we were carrying Menzel, Cowan, Gregson and Vardy for periods of time on the LTI list.

Let's just hope and pray that we get some players back, as it will have a double impact on our side, immensely strengthening it plus making our bottom six much for AFL level. Right now we are very thin for depth, and defence-wise, probably almost mortally. In all that context, to be in the game for all our matches isn't a bad effort.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Yeah I feel for the kids they've drafted too. Imagine having to do twice as much defensive gut running, to save half as many goals, to cover a guy earning literally over a million dollars more than you per season?

I can't pretend to understand why Melbourne are playing him, but whatever it is it's not a good enough reason

Oliver gone from one of the best mids to a slow plodder.quite sad really.

I remember he got whacked in the media about being to hand pass happy.
To quick runs though the stoppage and kicking it more.

He's lost his way .
Highly paid .
With not much trade value .