Opinion Non-Crows AFL 12: It's the confectionery with 1000 uses

[Stephen2]

I bought Pseudoephedrine HCL today from pharmacy, behind the counter had to show ID. So happy to find the real stuff.

Totally unethical to still put out Sudafed with an active ingredient that is well known to not work.

 

[Crow54]

I bought Pseudoephedrine HCL today from pharmacy, behind the counter had to show ID. So happy to find the real stuff.

Totally unethical to still put out Sudafed with an active ingredient that is well known to not work.

I didn't know it was still available at all. I remember having to show ID back in the day to get Demazin with Pseudoephedrine, and was okay doing that, but I thought it was then completely banned.

 

[Vader]

I bought Pseudoephedrine HCL today from pharmacy, behind the counter had to show ID. So happy to find the real stuff.

Totally unethical to still put out Sudafed with an active ingredient that is well known to not work.

Agree that phenylephrine is a scam, and should not be allowed to be sold in Australia as it is nothing more than a placebo.

I did a Google search last night, looking for the article which stated what would be needed to make phenylephrine effective (an article I read years ago). I didn't find what I was looking for, but I did discover why the use of phenylephrine was approved for use in oral cold & flu medications.

Apparently the FDA reviewed 7 scientific reports into the effectiveness of phenylephrine, which claimed that it was effective. 6 of the 7 reports were paid for by the drug's manufacturer, so it's no surprise that they said exactly what the manufacturer wanted them to say. Having been given approval, the drug has never been removed from the approved list, despite more recent studies showing that it is completely ineffective. However, because it's safe, they haven't removed its approval - even if it's not effective.

 

[Vader]

I didn't know it was still available at all. I remember having to show ID back in the day to get Demazin with Pseudoephedrine, and was okay doing that, but I thought it was then completely banned.

It was never completely banned - just restricted. Customers now need to specifically ask the pharmacist for it, show ID, and have the purchase recorded in the database.

Restricting access was all about preventing the bikie gangs (and other bad actors) from buying it in bulk, and transforming it into methamphetamines. They didn't want to remove access from people who actually needed the drug, which is a safe & effective means of treating cold & flu symptoms. They just wanted to prevent it from being abused by bad actors.

I think they probably got it right with this one.

 

[Vader]

And yet Meth use has increased.

Making cough medication less effective has not really worked in regard to decreasing meth use.


The sad reality is that Meth is cheaper than alcohol.

The fact that they're now able to source methamphetamine from different sources (with most of the precursor drugs now coming from China) does not make the historical decision to restrict access wrong.

Cough medication was, at the time, a major source of precursor drugs for the methamphetamine producers. Restricting access significantly reduced the availability of methamphetamines for many years. It's only relatively recently that meth has become more prevalent, with the advent of chemicals from other sources.

There probably wouldn't be any point in restricting access given today's circumstances, but it made complete sense at the time.

 

[n4sir]

And yet Meth use has increased.

Making cough medication less effective has not really worked in regard to decreasing meth use.

It did stop Chemists being ram-raided and ransacked for large quantities of Sudafed though.

 

[feenix67]

I'm just sceptical about whether scamming everyday citizens with fake sudafed to curb meth production actually had any effect

I reckon this had (as the Crows would say) a non-statistical impact on the game (of meth)

What I'm saying is making it harder for people sick with a cold to get pseudoephedrine is the Lachlan Murphy of stopping meth

It's all about the WaR oN dRuGz man.

Prohibition has never worked for anything, ever.

 

[Slippery Pete]

There we go. A textbook example of a Murdoch owned property putting out a story which misrepresents what actually happened, for the purpose of casting doubt on science as a whole (not to mention the notion of government regulation and oversight). A "quote" presented as a headline, which if you dig into it is actually a quote from someone else (a partisan politician no less) paraphrasing what he says Fauci said. The actual transcript wasn't released until months after the article came out, which put what he actually said into context.

But of course, most people just see the headline, and think "huh, I guess those kooky scientists were just wrong after all". And from there, it only depends how far down the conspiracy rabbit hole they are whether they attribute that to incompetency or malice.

The reality is that there is a strong relationship between the likelihood of transmission, and proximity to an infected person. This is the case for Covid, as it is for all viruses transmitted by aerosolised particles. This is undisputed. The further away from people you are, the less likely you are to become infected. Is six feet a magic number? No. But it's more effective than five feet, and less effective than seven feet.

The so-called "six foot rule" has nothing to do with Covid. It wasn't invented for Covid, it wasn't a result of study into Covid transmission. It is a general rule of thumb for viruses which has been around for more than a century. It's a sensible starting point which can then be modified as needed as more data is analysed for a given virus.

What actually happened here is that those people who were tasked with making public policy recommendations, quite rightly, recognised that the Covid pandemic, which was in the middle of becoming a global catastrophe, was being transmitted by aerosolised particles, and recommended that we all try to distance from other people to help limit the rate of infection. This was unquestionably correct advice to give, and the fact that I even need to make that argument is testament to the job the Murdoch press (and others) have done at casting doubt on science as a whole.

It was then the job of a policy maker to decide what to do with that advice. If you think the "punishments" (to the extent they existed at all) for not distancing sufficiently well were too harsh, that's where you should direct your ire. The scientists did their job extremely well, and should be lauded for it, rather than treated with scorn and suspicion.

Unfortunately for you, Australians don’t buy any of what you’ve written. That’s not my opinion, it’s evidence from the results of the recent government inquiry.

Of course, you can continue to believe Australians are too stupid to know what’s good for them and they all fell for Murdoch propaganda.

Or, perhaps you could face the reality: people now realize the majority of the measures taken during Covid were based on junk science, flimsy science, non-existent science, guesses that were later proven to be catastrophically false, or bog-standard bureaucratic groupthink masquerading as health advice.

Here’s a link to an article about the inquiry outcomes. Non-Murdoch for your viewing pleasure:

Trust is broken, and that’s the most damaging COVID legacy

The year-long COVID inquiry found missteps in a once-in-a-century pandemic have undermined trust in vaccines, science and government policy.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Slippery Pete]

Totally unethical to still put out Sudafed with an active ingredient that is well known to not work.

I for one am shocked that a pharmaceutical company would do this.

 

[feenix67]

Unfortunately for you, Australians don’t buy any of what you’ve written. That’s not my opinion, it’s evidence from the results of the recent government inquiry.

Of course, you can continue to believe Australians are too stupid to know what’s good for them and they all fell for Murdoch propaganda.

Or, perhaps you could face the reality: people now realize the majority of the measures taken during Covid were based on junk science, flimsy science, non-existent science, guesses that were later proven to be catastrophically false, or bog-standard bureaucratic groupthink masquerading as health advice.

Here’s a link to an article about the inquiry outcomes. Non-Murdoch for your viewing pleasure:

Trust is broken, and that’s the most damaging COVID legacy

The year-long COVID inquiry found missteps in a once-in-a-century pandemic have undermined trust in vaccines, science and government policy.

www.smh.com.au

Should I come to you next time I get Cancer? Or a broken leg?

As much as this must grind your gears, you're not an expert. Is the medical/pharmaceutical industry perfect? No, far from it. But in the absence of anything else, science is the best we've got. My vaccinated friend nearly died from COVID and now has ongoing health issues, including Myocarditis. Now, you would say that's evidence that the vax was useless and has now given her heart disease. But the simple truth, backed by a massive amount of data, shows that she would have likely died had she not been vaxxed and it's 11 times more likely she got heart disease from COVID.

That's not my opinion, that's fact. You can spin anything you like but the fact of the matter is people acted swiftly, by necessity, based on the information available at the time. There's no conspiracy.

In other news, the earth isn't flat and you do have to pay those parking fines.

 

[ftmch]

Unfortunately for you, Australians don’t buy any of what you’ve written. That’s not my opinion, it’s evidence from the results of the recent government inquiry.

Of course, you can continue to believe Australians are too stupid to know what’s good for them and they all fell for Murdoch propaganda.

Or, perhaps you could face the reality: people now realize the majority of the measures taken during Covid were based on junk science, flimsy science, non-existent science, guesses that were later proven to be catastrophically false, or bog-standard bureaucratic groupthink masquerading as health advice.

Here’s a link to an article about the inquiry outcomes. Non-Murdoch for your viewing pleasure:

Trust is broken, and that’s the most damaging COVID legacy

The year-long COVID inquiry found missteps in a once-in-a-century pandemic have undermined trust in vaccines, science and government policy.

www.smh.com.au

Lol.

I feel like I know you just that little bit better after this post, Pete.

 

[cmndstab]

Unfortunately for you, Australians don’t buy any of what you’ve written. That’s not my opinion, it’s evidence from the results of the recent government inquiry.

Of course, you can continue to believe Australians are too stupid to know what’s good for them and they all fell for Murdoch propaganda.

Or, perhaps you could face the reality: people now realize the majority of the measures taken during Covid were based on junk science, flimsy science, non-existent science, guesses that were later proven to be catastrophically false, or bog-standard bureaucratic groupthink masquerading as health advice.

I agree, it is extremely unfortunate, for me and for everyone else. The widespread distrust of science and academia, and resistance to the notion of government oversight and regulation makes us all less safe, less healthy and less capable of handling catastrophic events when they arise. And while it's not the sole cause, Murdoch propaganda has played a significant role in creating that distrust.

Again, you can keep repeating this idea that there was "flimsy" or "non-existent" science if you like, but it's not actually true. And the idea that any of it was "catastrophically false" is laughable. The actual scientific advice given during the Covid pandemic ranged from early, general advice made out of an abundance of caution given the rapid pace of spread that didn't permit us to spend six months doing more involved studies, to unambiguously accurate and specific advice which came as soon as it could. The scientific response to Covid was nothing short of excellent.

You can have your arguments with policy makers if you like. But let's be honest, you're not actually interested in that. This is just a team sport for you.

 

[Crow till I die]

Should I come to you next time I get Cancer? Or a broken leg?

As much as this must grind your gears, you're not an expert. Is the medical/pharmaceutical industry perfect? No, far from it. But in the absence of anything else, science is the best we've got. My vaccinated friend nearly died from COVID and now has ongoing health issues, including Myocarditis. Now, you would say that's evidence that the vax was useless and has now given her heart disease. But the simple truth, backed by a massive amount of data, shows that she would have likely died had she not been vaxxed and it's 11 times more likely she got heart disease from COVID.

That's not my opinion, that's fact. You can spin anything you like but the fact of the matter is people acted swiftly, by necessity, based on the information available at the time. There's no conspiracy.

In other news, the earth isn't flat and you do have to pay those parking fines.

Just a question, if you want a broken leg fixed or cancer treated and a doctor you went to waved Condy's Chrystals over your head and told you wear a mask because they thought it will work would you question that?

I posted a grok question and answer a few posts back on the 6 foot social distancing edict during Covid and whether it was backed by science and, of course, it wasn't but mysteriously that post got deleted... strange days. Point being the trust in health officials is at an all time low because anyone questioning 'THE NARRATIVE' was silenced and de platformed and it turns out that there were things they did that had no backing in science and were a feel good and people lost careers, friends etc over it at the time. All people want is for the governments and people in charge to be truthful and NOT let politics play a big role in what we are told. Oh and for the record, I and my family took the vax and had a booster because we wanted world travel to open back up as soon as possible and thought we would do our bit to help it at the time.

 

[Anzacpaul]

My boss went to some Tredrea function yesterday where he told "his story" (She's a Joe Rogan, Anti-Covid type) and she came in today saying the media made him out to be crazy. When I quoted his literal court documents, she said "you have to stop watching the news". Lol.

She's a lovely lady but jeez

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

 

[Southerntakeover]

I for one am shocked that a pharmaceutical company would do this.

Get private enterprises out of health?

 

[daniel_4tw]

2025 and we are still talking about Covid. Really?

You can say what you want about science, vaccines, government overreach. But as someone that got stranded outside of Australia the attitude of the government and vast majority of ‘residing’ Australians was disgustingly.

Closing borders, grounded national airlines (Qantas) and then capped amount of flights coming in. If you were out of the country, you were looking at $20k+ to get your family home, if you were lucky enough to get one of the 100 spots to Sydney a day.. People’s visas ran out, no access to other countries welfare when they lost their jobs, and family on the other side of the world. The Australian government just abandoned everyone overseas since they were so obsessed with Covid-0 in Australia and **** anyone that was living outside of Australia.

Then put arriving Australians in hotel quarantine for 2 weeks and charged them $3,000 for the privilege (safety for residing Australians, not the people returning).

No one knew that Covid would last so long, that people would lose their jobs, that they needed to pick up their lives at a moments notice. To have your own country say you’re not Australian enough as other Australians since you happen to be outside Australia, and therefore stranded, was a human rights disgrace.

For those in Australia, closing state borders, curfews that lasted months, not letting Australians leave Australia (so they didn’t want to deal with the above… but that’s North Korea shit).

I’m not anti government or anything, but it was scary to see how quickly peoples rights were eroded in the name of an unprecedented crisis. Really makes you realize how much of a theatre having rights is when it can be taken away when it’s no longer convenient.

 

[jenny61_99]

Lol.

I feel like I know you just that little bit better after this post, Pete.

You should venture into the politics pages... THEN you'll have the full picture!!! My god that is an eye opener that one.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Should I come to you next time I get Cancer? Or a broken leg?

If you break a bone, get into an accident, have a medical emergency or need surgery, there’s no country in which I’d rather be than Australia.

Having issues with the Covid response is, as the inquiry shows, a majority opinion.

It doesn’t mean you think a broken leg can be cured by drinking the blood of gladiators.

In other news, the earth isn't flat and you do have to pay those parking fines.

Responses like this are the exact reason the inquiry outcomes showed the trust is gone.

Because when people raised legitimate concerns, they were met with smart-assery like this.

So congratulations for being part of that.

 

[jenny61_99]

2025 and we are still talking about Covid. Really?

You can say what you want about science, vaccines, government overreach. But as someone that got stranded outside of Australia the attitude of the government and vast majority of ‘residing’ Australians was disgustingly.

Closing borders, grounded national airlines (Qantas) and then capped amount of flights coming in. If you were out of the country, you were looking at $20k+ to get your family home, if you were lucky enough to get one of the 100 spots to Sydney a day.. People’s visas ran out, no access to other countries welfare when they lost their jobs, and family on the other side of the world. The Australian government just abandoned everyone overseas since they were so obsessed with Covid-0 in Australia and **** anyone that was living outside of Australia.

Then put arriving Australians in hotel quarantine for 2 weeks and charged them $3,000 for the privilege (safety for residing Australians, not the people returning).

No one knew that Covid would last so long, that people would lose their jobs, that they needed to pick up their lives at a moments notice. To have your own country say you’re not Australian enough as other Australians since you happen to be outside Australia, and therefore stranded, was a human rights disgrace.

For those in Australia, closing state borders, curfews that lasted months, not letting Australians leave Australia (so they didn’t want to deal with the above… but that’s North Korea shit).

I’m not anti government or anything, but it was scary to see how quickly peoples rights were eroded in the name of an unprecedented crisis. Really makes you realize how much of a theatre having rights is when it can be taken away when it’s no longer convenient.

Christ, it had nothing to do with convenience and everything to do with saving lives. I agree with you how awful it was. But they did the best they could under the extreme circumstances they found themselves in, with absolutely NO playbook on how to go about this.

 

[Southerntakeover]

If you break a bone, get into an accident, have a medical emergency or need surgery, there’s no country in which I’d rather be than Australia.

Having issues with the Covid response is, as the inquiry shows, a majority opinion.

It doesn’t mean you think a broken leg can be cured by drinking the blood of gladiators.



Responses like this are the exact reason the inquiry outcomes showed the trust is gone.

Because when people raised legitimate concerns, they were met with smart-assery like this.

So congratulations for being part of that.

Your views are a little bit more than just 'having issues with the covid response' though, aren't they?

The article shared suggests one out of five people wouldn't get vaccinated in another pandemic. That suggests that four out of five either would, or would consider it.

Does that really suggest you're a majority view?

 

[Anzacpaul]

If you break a bone, get into an accident, have a medical emergency or need surgery, there’s no country in which I’d rather be than Australia.

Having issues with the Covid response is, as the inquiry shows, a majority opinion.

It doesn’t mean you think a broken leg can be cured by drinking the blood of gladiators.



Responses like this are the exact reason the inquiry outcomes showed the trust is gone.

Because when people raised legitimate concerns, they were met with smart-assery like this.

So congratulations for being part of that.

But the earth isn't flat, and you do have to pay your parking fines.

There's a difference between concerns that are genuinely legitimate, and concerns that people "just asking the question" deem as legitimate.

 

[chazwazza]

2025 and we are still talking about Covid. Really?

You can say what you want about science, vaccines, government overreach. But as someone that got stranded outside of Australia the attitude of the government and vast majority of ‘residing’ Australians was disgustingly.

Closing borders, grounded national airlines (Qantas) and then capped amount of flights coming in. If you were out of the country, you were looking at $20k+ to get your family home, if you were lucky enough to get one of the 100 spots to Sydney a day.. People’s visas ran out, no access to other countries welfare when they lost their jobs, and family on the other side of the world. The Australian government just abandoned everyone overseas since they were so obsessed with Covid-0 in Australia and **** anyone that was living outside of Australia.

Then put arriving Australians in hotel quarantine for 2 weeks and charged them $3,000 for the privilege (safety for residing Australians, not the people returning).

No one knew that Covid would last so long, that people would lose their jobs, that they needed to pick up their lives at a moments notice. To have your own country say you’re not Australian enough as other Australians since you happen to be outside Australia, and therefore stranded, was a human rights disgrace.

For those in Australia, closing state borders, curfews that lasted months, not letting Australians leave Australia (so they didn’t want to deal with the above… but that’s North Korea shit).

I’m not anti government or anything, but it was scary to see how quickly peoples rights were eroded in the name of an unprecedented crisis. Really makes you realize how much of a theatre having rights is when it can be taken away when it’s no longer convenient.

You could’ve just hopped on the Ruby Princess and Dutton and Alex Hawke would’ve rolled out the red carpet for you

 

[Slippery Pete]

Your views are a little bit more than just 'having issues with the covid response' though, aren't they?

The article shared suggests one out of five people wouldn't get vaccinated in another pandemic. That suggests that four out of five either would, or would consider it.

Does that really suggest you're a majority view?

I don’t, and never did have a problem with people undertaking it by choice.

I had a problem with mandates. I had a problem with lockdowns and school closures, among other things.

Which, as the inquiry uncovered, are all majority opinions.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That's what you take?

Hardcore man, hardcore

Nah, stay away from drugs... stick to alcohol.

Enjoy listening to the Underworld podcast which has covered it many times.