Autopsy Round 18, 2025: Hawks fall short

[reubski23]

Nothing you mentioned in your post is as frustrating to me as you continuing to call him Calsher “Deer”.

So many people have pulled you up on it now, you must be trolling at this point?

Also instead of just being a little bitch and moaning about a spelling mistake, why don’t you expand on what else is frustrating re: my post?

 

[Buzz Hawk]

I won’t quote the post as that pic is big, but that is one good looking dear..er deer.

 

[Elhawko]

An interesting part of the game is that I think both sides were really locking it in the front half well, which really exacerbated the momentum swings.

The thing Freo did better than us on a few occasions was the fast break.
And the accurate goal kicking.

There was a period in the third where we just kept kicking long into the goal square and conceding easy rushed behinds. That was the most frustrating. Period of the game. Meek, Dear, Chol - they just weren't taking pack marks and so it was a really impotent strateg.

And they out-tackled us about 100 to 70. They average 60 tackles a game for the year (we average 63). That's an enormous uptick in their work rate, fuelled by the do-or-die nature of their situation and the criticism of their coach during the week (does David King do these things to sabotage us deliberately?!). I suspect we couldn't have got them at a worse time, and of course the task was only made harder by the game being in Perth.

 

[Hawk fanatic]

And they out-tackled us about 100 to 70. They average 60 tackles a game for the year (we average 63). That's an enormous uptick in their work rate, fuelled by the do-or-die nature of their situation and the criticism of their coach during the week (does David King do these things to sabotage us deliberately?!). I suspect we couldn't have got them at a worse time, and of course the task was only made harder by the game being in Perth.

 

[Hawk fanatic]

Agree ElHawko.I was there.
Our midfield wasnt hungry or fanatical enough.Brayshaw was desperate to win with 14 tackles compared with Jais 2.
Neither Worps or Jai were as hungry.First three quarters I was concerned Freo would run over us.
The crowd were tame until those goals early in the last.
If we kicked first two we likely win.
They pressured high,Chol missed and we lost composure.
We should have won that game.

 

[TylerDurden]

Agree ElHawko.I was there.
Our midfield wasnt hungry or fanatical enough.Brayshaw was desperate to win with 14 tackles compared with Jais 2.
Neither Worps or Jai were as hungry.First three quarters I was concerned Freo would run over us.
The crowd were tame until those goals early in the last.
If we kicked first two we likely win.
They pressured high,Chol missed and we lost composure.
We should have won that game.

No we shouldn't have. They wanted it more. As hard as it is to say that.

 

[westhawk]

Yeah, credit to Freo but I tell you what the 10-1 free kicks in the last is pretty hard to swallow when our forwards were man-handled all night long.

Being at the game, the Freo defenders held all night, even when the ball was in transition to our forward line, and still 100 meters away, and not one free kick given. Total joke. Don’t even get me started on the last quarter.

 

[Brownbird]

I went to the EF last year, it's the best we've played for a decade. We were utterly irresistible in that game, we would have beaten any team in the league that night.

This entire year, I've had the feeling that: a) we haven't once truly come within a bull's roar of that form this year; and b) 2025 is one of those 'on our way but not quite there yet' years, like '07, '11, and maybe back to something like '82.

We could still turn it around, but we need to do so quickly.

we are doing those ghastly slow , gain nothing switches across ground, in 2025 we kept them to a minimum and when we did do them they were fast with some point and opened up holes.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

And they out-tackled us about 100 to 70. They average 60 tackles a game for the year (we average 63). That's an enormous uptick in their work rate, fuelled by the do-or-die nature of their situation and the criticism of their coach during the week (does David King do these things to sabotage us deliberately?!). I suspect we couldn't have got them at a worse time, and of course the task was only made harder by the game being in Perth.

God this shits me.

They increased their season average by 60% against us.
Why does this keep happening.

GWS, GC, Port Freo - all tackled and put on significantly more pressure on us than what their average is against others. (I say this wihtout actually checking the stats).

 

[CHUBBSS]

God this shits me.

They increased their season average by 60% against us.
Why does this keep happening.

GWS, GC, Port Freo - all tackled and put on significantly more pressure on us than what their average is against others. (I say this wihtout actually checking the stats).

Because they had to win, and we wilted

 

[cryptor]

God this shits me.

They increased their season average by 60% against us.
Why does this keep happening.

GWS, GC, Port Freo - all tackled and put on significantly more pressure on us than what their average is against others. (I say this wihtout actually checking the stats).

Opposition analysts have gone to work on us and worked out that’s a key part of the recipe to beating us. Now every time another side does it to us and it works it makes it more likely the next team will be motivated by the belief that it will work for them too.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Opposition analysts have gone to work on us and worked out that’s a key part of the recipe to beating us. Now every time another side does it to us and it works it makes it more likely the next team will be motivated by the belief that it will work for them too.

nah I don't believe that opposition analysts say "oh guys we should try tackling this week because it's Hawthorn - don't worry about tackling so much next week when it's Geelong"

There's something else going on

 

[Ka Norkers]

they do. no doubt whatsoever.
when it comes to playing Hawthorn, Port showed the blueprint to beating them. Pressure, pressure, pressure.
it is absolutely no coincidence all sides turn up like they do, they have been preparing to play that way since the oppo meeting early in the week.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

they do. no doubt whatsoever.
when it comes to playing Hawthorn, Port showed the blueprint to beating them. Pressure, pressure, pressure.
it is absolutely no coincidence all sides turn up like they do, they have been preparing to play that way since the oppo meeting early in the week.

So when they play other sides they don't talk about pressure and don't think pressure is important?

 

[cryptor]

nah I don't believe that opposition analysts say "oh guys we should try tackling this week because it's Hawthorn - don't worry about tackling so much next week when it's Geelong"

There's something else going on

It’s not just tackling or not tackling. It’s the defensive mindset to keep applying pressure and knowing there’s a good chance of scoring the other way if they all commit to it.

Make the first guy rush his disposal to the next guy who will then have even less time and space and eventually we will turn it over and because we’re trying to move it forward quickly in waves there’s a good chance the turnover will happen while multiple Hawks are out of position to effectively defend.

Yes, this pressure would work against all teams, but against us it’s especially effective and to not do it is likely to result in Hawthorn carving them up.

 

[Franko Armani]

Sides are absolutely getting up and about to play us because …. They obviously truly believe we are beatable.

 

[Elhawko]

Well as far as tackling goes, of our losses this year really only the Pies upped their usual work rate against us (82 vs 65). Most of the other teams tackled at about average rate:

US/Ave
BL 59/55
GC. 68/63
Geel. 62/64
PA. 56/57

There are other means of applying pressure but in terms of tackling, Freo certainly were the ones red-lining against us.( Port probably didn't need to tackle in the first half so their tally against us may be from just the second half of the game!)

 

[SSSSSS]

Maybe the way we play draws in pressure.

We tend to piss fart with the ball a lot more than we did last season.

We are the most tackled side in the comp. We average 67.9 tackles against us this season. We're also number 2 in terms of opposition pressure rating, second to the Bulldogs.

We get drawn into big stoppage games. Top 4 in the comp for most stoppages per game. We tend to lose out in this area (bottom 4 for stoppage differentials).

I guess teams just know to make it a slog against us.

 

[burger09]

I think we invite pressure at midfield contests. Often we're not quite clean enough or precise enough with our skills.

McKenzie is a great example at the moment. Hesitant and indecisive. Nash streaming from the middle on Saturday only to fumble. CJ running past the footy instead of straight linning it etc.

Watch the way Bribane and Collingwood navigate their way through pressure with high skill and footy IQ.

Draw and release. You need high quality players to do it consistently and effectively.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

Maybe the way we play draws in pressure.

We tend to piss fart with the ball a lot more than we did last season.

We are the most tackled side in the comp. We average 67.9 tackles against us this season. We're also number 2 in terms of opposition pressure rating, second to the Bulldogs.

We get drawn into big stoppage games. Top 4 in the comp for most stoppages per game. We tend to lose out in this area (bottom 4 for stoppage differentials).

I guess teams just know to make it a slog against us.

I wonder if these stats are higher for us in the first half or first quarters against us than later in the game. Same with pressure ratings. Is there an oppo strategy to break us early then we just wilt. Sometimes with the naked eye or feel of the game it seems this way.
It would be silly to think that oppos would only just up tackling and pressure when they play the Hawks as others have stated.

 

[Ashman23]

We're collectively too slow and hang onto the ball too long.

 

[CHUBBSS]

The more parts of this game I watch the more I think it will define our season. Not for the loss but how we respond from here. The writing is on the wall in what was arguably played better then a lot of finals I have seen.

The cards are on the table now for the coaches and we have 6 weeks to create a best 22 side. Their is a strong list here to put out for finals but depending on fitness and team balance some good players are going to have to miss, and if the coaches just choose to go with best players over team balance we are stuffed or the plan is to hope the other team doesn’t play their best.

And then you have the midfield, do we have enough capable players for 4 quarters and at the moment… that’s a no, I think this is corrected over the offseason but for the immediate now, if Finn offers pressure the ability to take out a teams best and stop transition run, I would argue that is better then hoping for another of the kids to put in a blinder. (he really has to be safe with his disposal because oppo will use him as the out, and team mates have to work to create run for a handball). And as a left field choice Ginny in the middle isn’t a bad option, very crafty with how he can set up plays, elite tank and put on some size and he goes as hard as anyone.

BUT and it’s a big but, the wiz on the move at stoppages is frightening for opposition, and if he just focused on getting the ball he will draw frees like no tomorrow.

If all else fails in defence, Sicily as the sub seems a lot safer and his ability to play forward and back provides huge cover, and gives him a chance to get his body right and focused for finals. We need run, team gameplan can’t just be dictated by Weddle being out, we must play for run.

To me the heat should be on Moore, he built his game on overlap gut running not as a one on one marking player, yes he can take a good grab but he needs to stop being a lead up mark, defenders eat this. Or if he is injured I know a guy who has been pretty handy and if he can get 100% fit come finals, playing Bruest is a trump card, but I haven’t seen much VFL this year. We also haven’t had a great front and square player in the team, Chol, dear and Lewis would tap it on a platter to Bruest. It will be hard to hold three forwards who can’t apply manic pressure tho.

The last 6 weeks will be like a list reconfiguration on the run, get it right and we will go in with momentum, or keep doing the same and keep playing the same inconsistent footy.

 

[Hawkk]

God this shits me.

They increased their season average by 60% against us.
Why does this keep happening.

GWS, GC, Port Freo - all tackled and put on significantly more pressure on us than what their average is against others. (I say this wihtout actually checking the stats).

Precisely why we’ve done incredibly well to be top 6, with a young squad and being injury ravaged. Imagine what this team can do if we were a little off broadway with a better run with injuries. It took the Dees about four years (2017-2020) to build into 2021, Collingwood rose (2018-19), dipped (2020-21) and rose again.

Regardless of how this year ends we are going to be much better prepared for 2026 than we were for 2025

 

[tommyk72]

The more parts of this game I watch the more I think it will define our season. Not for the loss but how we respond from here. The writing is on the wall in what was arguably played better then a lot of finals I have seen.

The cards are on the table now for the coaches and we have 6 weeks to create a best 22 side. Their is a strong list here to put out for finals but depending on fitness and team balance some good players are going to have to miss, and if the coaches just choose to go with best players over team balance we are stuffed or the plan is to hope the other team doesn’t play their best.

And then you have the midfield, do we have enough capable players for 4 quarters and at the moment… that’s a no, I think this is corrected over the offseason but for the immediate now, if Finn offers pressure the ability to take out a teams best and stop transition run, I would argue that is better then hoping for another of the kids to put in a blinder. (he really has to be safe with his disposal because oppo will use him as the out, and team mates have to work to create run for a handball). And as a left field choice Ginny in the middle isn’t a bad option, very crafty with how he can set up plays, elite tank and put on some size and he goes as hard as anyone.

I was thinking this after the game. I hope this is our "Port game" from last year, where we come out breathing fire. The problem is that I have hoped that twice already this year.

 

[DearJai]

nah I don't believe that opposition analysts say "oh guys we should try tackling this week because it's Hawthorn - don't worry about tackling so much next week when it's Geelong"

There's something else going on

I think it's a mix of the two things - them playing out of their skin against us, and the notion that the way to beat us is to apply pressure.

St. Kilda in particular was just ridiculous for a side that can barely compete a lot of weeks.

They were clocking a 240 rating at times. Meanwhile Port looked like Geelong's 2007-11 side in Adelaide early in the year.

I doubt either side has looked better in 2025.

We triggered a lot of clubs with Hokball last year I reckon.