Autopsy Round 18, 2025: Hawks fall short

[TONYC3163]

37.5% DE is not an impact player.

Finn is an endurance machine. I've made my point previously, he either plays as a stopper who tires out his opponent or he doesn't play at all.

Yep

 

[Buzz Hawk]

Imo, I don't want Finn to impact as a sub, I want him starting and tagging one of the opps best midfielders..
Just take one of the opps best midfielders out of the game.
Once again on Saturday, two of the best 3 on ground (according to the coaches) were two of the oppositions best midfielders. Happens all the time when Finn is sub.
Either start him on the ground as a run with player or don't play him at all.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

37.5% DE is not an impact player.

Finn is an endurance machine. I've made my point previously, he either plays as a stopper who tires out his opponent or he doesn't play at all.

If we had an impact player, he'd be starting

 

[quincey]

Reminds me of Sam's quote earlier last year. Sometimes the way we play we make it easy for the opposition to apply pressure.

Collingwood and Brisbane for contrast make it very hard to apply pressure as when they win the ball they go. They take the first option and everyone knows where to spread and they hit their targets and it's very difficult to stop.

We have guys win the ball then ignoring options and getting tackled. We kick inboard to a flat footed Morrison in a 2v1.

We switch the play with a high slow kick to the hbf that gets cut off.

When they turn turn it over to us in the middle of the ground we stand there, kick sideways, then handball then kick to 40m out in the corridor to Dear in a 4v1 with no crumbers. Kick it long a pack in the pocket and worst case scenario they mark it and have to kick over the mark. Best case we mark and goal. Likely scenario is ball comes to ground and we either win a crumb or they are under immense pressure and cannot rebound.

We made some really silly mistakes this match. Players and coaches.

that is what’s so frustrating - is that not how we played in the second half of last year?
mostly first option taken, felt like so much support going past. now so many first release options passed up (eg. mckenzie in last few matches, not the only one, just the one i remember coaching from the couch) leading to HTB. not sure what happened to the mantra of being “predictable to our team mates”
also, seems so often other teams hold onto to legs or stop us getting up to prevent us playing on quickly? so much accidental limb entanglement
i may miss some of the finer points of game play, is how we’re playing now supposed to be an evolution of last year? maybe i’m missing something

(yes, yes, i know- players, injured, missing, lack of stability, constant shuffling of position, etc, just venting)

 

[Yardie]

If we had an impact player, he'd be starting

I think we are defining impact differently, but for different aspects. I'm talking about the sub (Newcombe is an impact player for your definition).

For the sub, CJ is what I would classify as an impact player.

 

[The Golden Glenferrie]

I think we are defining impact differently, but for different aspects. I'm talking about the sub (Newcombe is an impact player for your definition).

For the sub, CJ is what I would classify as an impact player.

And CJ should be sub. I haven't minded him in that role

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Four quarter football. Don’t blame the tools.

“Sack the coach”

 

[Leather Poisoning]

An interesting part of the game is that I think both sides were really locking it in the front half well, which really exacerbated the momentum swings.

The thing Freo did better than us on a few occasions was the fast break.
And the accurate goal kicking.

There was a period in the third where we just kept kicking long into the goal square and conceding easy rushed behinds. That was the most frustrating. Period of the game. Meek, Dear, Chol - they just weren't taking pack marks and so it was a really impotent strateg.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

“Sack the coach”

Board next.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

“Sack the coach”

Childish response. Where does our midfield rate compared to the rest of the comp. Top 8 and bottom 8. How do you rate our midfield development of the last two years.
Are the coaches/line coaches immune to criticism around here. Are the players the only ones fair game. There's pages and pages on CJ when he fails to stick a tackle in the middle.
We got young midfielders getting dropped midway though a game. Confidences shot.

 

[Xtreme]

“Sack the coach”

Come home Clarko, I miss you!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Childish response. Where does our midfield rate compared to the rest of the comp. Top 8 and bottom 8. How do you rate our midfield development of the last two years.
Are the coaches/line coaches immune to criticism around here. Are the players the only ones fair game. There's pages and pages on CJ when he fails to stick a tackle in the middle.
We got young midfielders getting dropped midway though a game. Confidences shot.

Childish response? I literally just gave you a quick summation of what you wrote when you said we needed to get rid of David Hale.

We were up and all over them in the midfield for large parts of that game, so much so the Brayshaw even told foxy immediately after the final siren that it was tough for them to gain the ascendancy and that we have an elite midfield….without Day mind you... But sure, the last quarter is all David Hale’s fault.

 

[Flamin Joe]

Come home Clarko, I miss you!

Fremantle are a great side. We lacked polish.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Fremantle are a great side. We lacked polish.

They are not great. Decent and played well to win, but if they are great then Hawthorn mustn’t be too far off being great as well. But in reality we are not, we are a developing side that has plateaued a bit due to various factors.

 

[Flamin Joe]

They are not great. Decent and played well to win, but if they are great then Hawthorn mustn’t be too far off being great as well. But in reality we are not, we are a developing side that has plateaued a bit due to various factors.

 

[TONYC3163]

Childish response. Where does our midfield rate compared to the rest of the comp. Top 8 and bottom 8. How do you rate our midfield development of the last two years.
Are the coaches/line coaches immune to criticism around here. Are the players the only ones fair game. There's pages and pages on CJ when he fails to stick a tackle in the middle.
We got young midfielders getting dropped midway though a game. Confidences shot.

There is a difference between legitimate criticism and over the top saying get rid of a line coach.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Sorry. I read it quickly and missed the sarcasm

 

[Ashman23]

Yeah, credit to Freo but I tell you what the 10-1 free kicks in the last is pretty hard to swallow when our forwards were man-handled all night long.

But FrEeKiCkHaWtHoRn

 

[burnside5]

Bewildered why Serong was not tagged and equally bewildered why Horne Francis was not either in last year's final as McKenzie smashed. Dear will get better. Day to come. Scrimshaw also and Lewis. Let's go from here..

 

[DearJai]

Childish response. Where does our midfield rate compared to the rest of the comp. Top 8 and bottom 8. How do you rate our midfield development of the last two years.
Are the coaches/line coaches immune to criticism around here. Are the players the only ones fair game. There's pages and pages on CJ when he fails to stick a tackle in the middle.
We got young midfielders getting dropped midway though a game. Confidences shot.

When our group is on they more than get the job done.

They were good enough to beat the Crows and Dogs.

But mostly, how many teams can cover there best mid without losing potency?

Forgetting Day, consider this:

Mackenzie is playing worse than he did at the start of the year due to injury and then form. Nash has been out injured and suspended, and his performances are still a bit up and down. Worpel has been out injured, then out of form also. Butler added a lot to the group. Then he got injured/sore and is out as well.

Our best performed mids in 2025 are Jai and Ward. One of those is in his infancy as an on-baller.

Notice that pair have played every game?

Could there be a link between getting on the park and everyone's performances I wonder?

 

[ReturningHawk]

Frustrating loss. I have said all year we are not winning it all this year with this mid-field and I’m absolutely right.

Unbelievably crazy we went after both Barrass and Battle they’re both really good players but we only needed one. We should’ve gone after mid. Back half of last year we had so much space coming out of the backline - this year we have none.

Our mid field is no where near it. Worpel is not good, he needs to go at the end of the year. Only reason he plays is because we have no depth at all in this position at all.

McKenzie - gone backwards completely since his hand injury. Lost so much confidence - I have no concerns about his future but I can’t see it turning around this year.

Sicily was fine I reckon, seemed to struggle overhead a little. But his intent and fight looked really good

Meek awesome - we’d be completely screwed without him. He has a serious chance of going down us one of the top 2 ruckman in our history

Ginny very good. One of the better decision makers - if he was a yard quicker he’d be an A grader.

Scrimshaw has to come in - probably for CJ. He looks very very good at box hill yesterday - can defend, finds good space and is a very good user of the football. Annoys me that Mitch doesn’t fully believe in him

I really don’t think Lewis is going to solve anything - we have looked so slow this year adding a 4th tall into the mix is not going to help us. Gunston and Chol have had great years despite our poor midfield - would be crazy to drop either of them or play Chol out of position; we have seen what ****ing around with positioning has done to Sicily’s game. But I guess we will have to at some point

Deer showed some good-very good signs - does not deserve to be dropped. For Lewis

Nothing you mentioned in your post is as frustrating to me as you continuing to call him Calsher “Deer”.

So many people have pulled you up on it now, you must be trolling at this point?

 

[SSSSSS]

When our group is on they more than get the job done.

They were good enough to beat the Crows and Dogs.

But mostly, how many teams can cover there best mid without losing potency?

Forgetting Day, consider this:

Mackenzie is playing worse than he did at the start of the year due to injury and then form. Nash has been out injured and suspended, and his performances are still a bit up and down. Worpel has been out injured, then out of form also. Butler added a lot to the group. Then he got injured/sore and is out as well.

Our best performed mids in 2025 are Jai and Ward. One of those is in his infancy as an on-baller.

Notice that pair have played every game?

Could there be a link between getting on the park and everyone's performances I wonder?

IIRC David King earlier in the season highlighted that most premiers in the last 10 seasons or were roughly in the top 2-3 for least players used.

Availability is a very sought after attribute.

 

[reubski23]

Nothing you mentioned in your post is as frustrating to me as you continuing to call him Calsher “Deer”.

So many people have pulled you up on it now, you must be trolling at this point?

Calm down dear. Really not a big deal

 

[chippie]

Imo, I don't want Finn to impact as a sub, I want him starting and tagging one of the opps best midfielders..
Just take one of the opps best midfielders out of the game.
Once again on Saturday, two of the best 3 on ground (according to the coaches) were two of the oppositions best midfielders. Happens all the time when Finn is sub.
Either start him on the ground as a run with player or don't play him at all.

I’m not trying to be a smartarse and I am very much normally in the camp of “the club knows best”, but honestly is there anyone on this board who actually thinks Finn being sub is a good idea?

 

[Flamin Joe]

Nothing you mentioned in your post is as frustrating to me as you continuing to call him Calsher “Deer”.

So many people have pulled you up on it now, you must be trolling at this point?

Trigger warning