Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Blue and Silver]

Then Ahmed Fahour happened...

Former Carlton Board member and reserves player Ahmed Favour?

 

[Gointocarlton]

As I've said before I'm not an ITK. I have A LOT of older Carlton (and a few current) players on facebook and a lot of media people. Sometimes it's current players who will add perspective to something, sometimes it's a former player who will spill the tea that they've gotten from a connection (third hand information). Footy people love to talk. When I share something it's because I've generally gotten permission to do so (I'll never post anything here without asking first).

Here's something that I can share. I'm working on having one of our former players - who was involved in Carlton post-playing - message Aph. I don't know when he's going to do it but he said he would. He's considering starting an account here too (but first things first).

If you want something that I consider positive I'll share this belief:

Nick Austin understood just how far off a premiership we were years ago. The club has intentionally hedged its bets ever since. He's reset the list "on the fly" to put us into a better position than what we were in in 2015. We have a lot more younger talent (who can be genuine AFL players) on the list than we did in that period.

We're not going to be down the tail end of the ladder for the next half-decade.

We may be down for another couple of seasons but the list will be rebuilt by the time Tassie comes into the league.

Thanks for sharing Big W. What I will say is this, assuming the above is the case, why cant they just bloody well communicate it to us!!!! Everyone has been around long enough to know not all plans always work out. If there was a change in direction or recalibration of the plan, just tell us. Keep us informed FFS. At the end of the day, it is what it is, but at least we know. Like I have repeatedly said, I couldnt care less about who we draft, recruit, trade, delist, I just want my club to win games of footy consistently and ultimately win a premiership. Bring us on the journey with some honestly is all Im saying. Is it that hard?

 

[lily of laguna]

This corroborates treesloth’s post

Think some posters owe treesloth an apology, he’s just passing on what he heard and got unfairly attacked, wasn’t just disagreeing with what he said.

Cripps is not going to wc, people have the right to be sceptical and his trade suggestion was mediocre.

As a critic of the rumour myself please show me where I unfairly attacked him.

Nothing has been corroborated same with the Charlie curnow rumour.
The player himself squashed it.

 

[JustaBattler]

Thanks for sharing Big W. What I will say is this, assuming the above is the case, why cant they just bloody well communicate it to us!!!! Everyone has been around long enough to know not all plans always work out. If there was a change in direction or recalibration of the plan, just tell us. Keep us informed FFS. At the end of the day, it is what it is, but at least we know. Like I have repeatedly said, I couldnt care less about who we draft, recruit, trade, delist, I just want my club to win games of footy consistently and ultimately win a premiership. Bring us on the journey with some honestly is all Im saying. Is it that hard?

The Club DID communicate its direction to everyone that bothered to look I reckon.

I'll say it again liek I did in last year's trade period and draft- they ditched Kennedy and Owies rejected Houston and went long draft and youth. Just do the numbers.

The players who reckon that they should have had reinfocements also saw Martin/Cuningham and Marchbank gone.

The players who would have been looking for developed playing help to rise- instead looked at a bunch of high school graduates enter the Club.

Effectively after exits amd injuries- teh Club was DOWN 6 developed players whgo previously played in finals and got to a prelim - replaced by NADA

The coaches had to manage 6 down AND then to top it off- add Newman/Kemp /Cottrell as well as Jagga Smith to LT season ending injury on top of injured as much as playinh Walsh/Silvagni/McGovern/Fanatasia - then add E hollands out all year and H McKay absent for extended periods for one reason or another.


At the same time 19 - half the list started with one year left on their contracts - therefore everyone on notice.


It ain't rocket science.

2025 has been a shyte year big time.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

That worked out well for us last time.

Not sure what more you could want from an incoming CEO really - he's the prefect for our football needs.

Coaching, List, High Performance, Football Management.

If not he…then who?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Why go the trade route. That’s wasting draft currency. We have two capable tall defenders in the VFL. We can take one of Phillips or DGB as a DFA on Oct 3rd, and then take the other as a SSP pick because HOF is on the LTI. Both of them were unlucky not to be picked up by us.

Phillips is 26/27 next year, so he’d be a good fit to replace JSOS if he does end up going, and DGB is currently 23. Suddenly you look at our KPD progression for the next couple of years and it’s Weitering, Haynes, Phillips followed by Weitering, Phillips, DGB. Then Phillips, DGB and HOF. With Dean popping up for cameos while he develops and fills out.

I'd add Phillips as cheap backup. He's huge for the VFL side, a real general.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

Thanks for sharing Big W. What I will say is this, assuming the above is the case, why cant they just bloody well communicate it to us!!!! Everyone has been around long enough to know not all plans always work out. If there was a change in direction or recalibration of the plan, just tell us. Keep us informed FFS. At the end of the day, it is what it is, but at least we know. Like I have repeatedly said, I couldnt care less about who we draft, recruit, trade, delist, I just want my club to win games of footy consistently and ultimately win a premiership. Bring us on the journey with some honestly is all Im saying. Is it that hard?

I suppose it shows our hand from a trading players out POV.

Like now, the media vultures are circling, as are the leagues list managers no doubt.

They’d now know we’re in the market for value & also, who has the value to spend.

Best not to show your cards too early, I guess.

 

[Zlatan]

I’m absolutely loving some of the reasoning being used at the moment

Get an experienced head coach? That worked well for us last time

Keep the current coach? That worked well for us last time

Bring in a highly rated assistant from a successful club? That worked well for us last time

So basically whatever we do next must not have been tried by any football club since 1890 for some to be happy

 

[Lukeblueboy]

Do we go after leek aleer?
Or just elevate one of the big boys out of the two’s for a year to help get us through?

 

[Gointocarlton]

I suppose it shows our hand from a trading players out POV.

Like now, the media vultures are circling, as are the leagues list managers no doubt.

They’d now know we’re in the market for value & also, who has the value to spend.

Best not to show your cards too early, I guess.

I wasnt suggesting informing us chapter and verse, just communicate the general facts in a language all supporters can understand (without the detail that would give away IP to the oppo). The spend millions on Comm/media, I'm certain they could figure it out.

 

[dangertroy]

We started a MAJOR rebuild at the end of 2022

Gone since then are Dow (0), O'Brien (0), Kennedy (20), Stocker (14), Carroll(3), Plowman(0), Martin(8), Marchbank(0), Fisher(7), Cuningham(0), Williamson(0), Philp(0), Honey(0), Durdin(0), McDonald(7), Hayes(0), Setterfield(13) and Owies(14).

That's 18 players who would now be 25-29 (ie: in the prime of their careers) and who would be in our best 30 players - good enough to contribute to a solid enough squad. You can add to that list Liam Jones, Jack Newnes and Luke Parks who could all still be playing in a different world, plus Ed Curnow (retired).

I take your point, but I think that it's helpful to look at games played this year as a metric.

The 18 players you listed combined for 82 AFL games this year, including games subbed on and off. That's essentially 4 players worth of games we're missing. 9 are no longer on AFL lists. Only 1(Kennedy) has played every game. 7 of the other 9 have averaged 8.8 games each, through a combination of being dropped, not selected, or most glaringly, being injured. Dow hasn't got on the park this year. Oscar McDonald played more games for the Dockers this year than he managed in 2 years on our list. Fisher, Carrol, Owies can't hold spots in bottom 6 teams.

We're weak through that 23-28 year old age bracket. I get that we should have a strong core of players in that range, but these players are not that strong core. All up, we've let go 24 players over that time (including some like Akuei and Mirkov who didn't manage a game). That's 8 a year, which is around the average, if not slightly below, so it's standard list turnover. Outside of Kennedy, who we all miss, it's a collection of whipping boys and constantly injured players.

The big issue with this list isn't that they are gone. It's that we missed on a bunch of draft picks, or traded in players who we couldn't get on the park. It's the result of multiple of years of squandered draft picks, re-contracting injured players and big contracts hamstringing (literally) our ability to do anything other than bargain hunting rookies. I'm much happier looking at this list of players we parted with than I would be if we were still carrying them on the list. If they were indeed 18 of our best 30, then we're still playing players 31-37 just to field a side.

 

[DangerousD]

I think Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood have shown that going full rebuild is not needed. With Jagga, Dean and Cody and the existing young players we have enough talent to bounce back.

Depends on what timeframe you use, Sydney 2 premierships the last 25 years, Collingwood 2 premierships the last 25 years.

Geelong 4 flags but the first 3 were built from rebuilding via the draft.

Hawks 4 flags from hitting the draft

Richmond 3 flags from building via the draft and then adding missing pieces.

The Cats, Swans and Pies models seem good but in 50 years, no one gives a stuff if you made the finals 10 years in a row.

 

[CCurnow3picks]

I wasnt suggesting informing us chapter and verse, just communicate the general facts in a language all supporters can understand (without the detail that would give away IP to the oppo). The spend millions on Comm/media, I'm certain they could figure it out.

I agree they miss an opportunity to bring us on the journey & build something amazing.

Beyond their social media content creation.

They clearly have bigger fish to fry ATM.

 

[dangertroy]

I’m absolutely loving some of the reasoning being used at the moment

Get an experienced head coach? That worked well for us last time

Keep the current coach? That worked well for us last time

Bring in a highly rated assistant from a successful club? That worked well for us last time

So basically whatever we do next must not have been tried by any football club since 1890 for some to be happy

 

[Dramoth]

I'd add Phillips as cheap backup. He's huge for the VFL side, a real general.

DGB has been doing well as a KPF since the MSD. I’d also grab him if we can. If Jack goes, we’re down 2 defenders and both can play.

 

[Benaly28]

I’m absolutely loving some of the reasoning being used at the moment

Get an experienced head coach? That worked well for us last time

Keep the current coach? That worked well for us last time

Bring in a highly rated assistant from a successful club? That worked well for us last time

So basically whatever we do next must not have been tried by any football club since 1890 for some to be happy

The MAIN difference will be a major clean out of players who seem to have different rules to others hence creating a bad culture at our club.Rest assured GW has no ‘Carlton history’ and will be as ruthless as possible to re shape this list.

 

[Dramoth]

Stop it please, sounds like we missed a golden opportunity to get our back of house in order!!!!

Oh we definitely did. If Elliott had retired after 1995, we could have seen Fitzy picked as the next president and he would have dragged is kicking and screaming into the modern era. We wouldn’t have gone chasing after a messiah, there would have been no paper bags full of cash and definitely no cap penalties. And we wouldn’t have moved to Docklands like we were the AFL’s puppies.

 

[Dramoth]

Saad isn't retiring.

I can see us delisting Raz and Fog. Potentially using Durds as trade bait. The rest of them we should keep. I noticed he didn’t suggest delisting Motts.

 

[mochacinolatte]

if we pump this many games into motlop there is no way we delisting him.

 

[ferrisb]

I am hopeful that some clever poster might compile a timeline of all the disasters to beset this club in 2025. Starting with Jagga’s knee and Elijah’s first holiday before the season started. Extending through to HoF’s acl injury, and leaving space for whatever is to come.

Chief

 

[bradfisher14]

I am hopeful that some clever poster might compile a timeline of all the disasters to beset this club in 2025. Starting with Jagga’s knee and Elijah’s first holiday before the season started. Extending through to HoF’s acl injury, and leaving space for whatever is to come. The list is going to be very, very long.

I made a post similar to this during the pre-season. I'll update it soon once my mental health has replenished.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I’m absolutely loving some of the reasoning being used at the moment

Get an experienced head coach? That worked well for us last time

Keep the current coach? That worked well for us last time

Bring in a highly rated assistant from a successful club? That worked well for us last time

So basically whatever we do next must not have been tried by any football club since 1890 for some to be happy

GO THE THREE HEADED MONSTER

 

[lily of laguna]

I think it does. Very similar mail.
The difference could be in the way that each source told the poster, the way that the poster interpreted said info, or that one source happens to know a few more details than the other.

At the end of the day, both rumours are about the possibility of Cripps leaving and the fact that he may do so willingly.

Perhaps we need Chinese bluwhispers threads!!!!

 

[Kernafides]

My take is that cripps is just mentally and physically spent. He has busted his gut for a dream that he had with Doc which is clearly not happening anytime soon. Perhaps in his twilight it's best to spend more time closer with family given his youngin. He's given it his all.

 

[Dramoth]

Phillips definitely deserves some consideration imo…had a solid year

DGB has struggled to get a game early because we had HOF developing in defence and went forward (and done reasonable)

Hell we could offer Liam Jones a year couldn’t we ?

DGB struggled early because we had Lemmey and McMahon as the KPF’s. When McMahon left, he started getting time up front and has performed well. I think having Young and DGB as KP utility players, forward or back, when we need to rest a first team player would be good for the club. Neither Young or DGB will be great players, but as the game goes on, you never get shorter.

I’d pass on Liam. 35 before next season and only played 5 games this year. But that’s just me.