Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[JJBagger]

Didn't stop them extending Cerra...

He was extended by years, not on salary

 

[Blue__Balls]

Didn't stop them extending Cerra...

A bunch of players have re-signed this year already. By all reports, an initial offer was on the table to Jack ages ago, and he's shopped himself. Seems he wanted to put pressure on the club to up their offer, they didn't (probably because "TDK"), and he's taken that as an indication they don't value him.

He's well within his rights to hold that view, but I think it simply shows exactly how the club value him - as an injury prone player who has found his position late in his career. 4 years at $600k is fair, and given Collingwood seem to be offering similar it would appear to be about the market value too.

So if Jack wanted Austin to come begging for his signature, with an improved offer to boot, then he was clearly mistaken.

 

[Dominator_7]

Does anyone really think that JSOS will be able to come back after 'shopping' himself around and meeting with other teams/coaches etc. I don't want him to go... but all signs point to him leaving.. So... see ya.
Bring on the new batch of kids, or some strategic recruiting.

He can, but think his reputation amongst the fan base will never quite be the same again. He has brought that on himself unfortunately .

 

[CoachB]

He was extended by years, not on salary

Same thing, Cerra has been Mr Mediocre why extend him long term? My comment was based on a suggestion by a poster that all list matters where on hold due to TDK

 

[sparkybagger]

Mark Williams came in at the right time, that guy is a killer, won't be a head coach again but has forgotten more about footy than Goodwin knows.

I'd imagine a bunch of clubs have already been on the phone to see if they can shake him loose. A great mentor figure to have the in the back of the coaches box or on the bench.

 

[ctwenty1]

I'd imagine a bunch of clubs have already been on the phone to see if they can shake him loose. A great mentor figure to have the in the back of the coaches box or on the bench.

Didn’t he steer Shiel to Essendon (I think Shiel was dating i hi is daughter at the time)

Guess his footy knowledge isn’t all prescient

 

[Blue Pulse]

It's hard because they are much loved and if they stay, I'm going to be taunted and ridiculed until I die. However, I enjoy the attention so ...

1. Charlie Curnow - has got by on natural talent for so long. He's a burst player. When he's up, he can pile on a few quick goals and change the momentum, but he never seeks to work through a full game and really hurt the opposition. He doesn't use his superior athleticism to chase down defenders and turn the ball back our way. He saves his energy for the glory stuff, the saving mark in defence or the wheel and go downtown goals. Has had the attributes to be one of the greats, but has half the workrate of a Jeremy Cameron.

2. Patrick Cripps - absolute gun player, heart and soul player and a legend of this club. However, when our backs are to the wall, he's no longer the one to change the course of a game. He went through his periods of doing too much and hurting the team, and periods of not knowing when to inject himself back into the game to halt momentum. Surrounding his Brownlow years, he has had some seriously so-so seasons. If there is one player we rely on to always lead the way, it's Crippa, and he doesn't always do that. Having said all that, he is still worth his salary.

3. Jacob Weitering - oh shit, another Bambi slaying. Another colossus most of the time, but out on the field, his voice and organisation doesn't seem to be there. Doesn't seem to be able to work in with some other players. Often leaves his man and leaves his opponent against lesser medium defenders, and can't take on certain types of forward, meaning that players like Brodie Kemp were thrown to the wolves at times. I worry about him as a future captain, because I'm not sure he can be that strong voice the team needs. How many key defenders are earning anywhere close to $1m per season?

4. Harry McKay - this one I am less sure about. He definitely is not worth anywhere near $1m per year, so that's not the problem. Harry has always had a flaky side, hit or miss. He's never been that big pack splitter that a team needs, and unless he is on a long lead down a wing, he's not ultra reliable with his hands. I definitely think the Coleman and other clubs sniffing around made Austin panic, instead of relying on Harry's relationship with teammates to slice $200k off his price.

TDK hasn't been paid yet, but we all agree he is not worth what is on offer elsewhere, or even what our supposed offer is. You just don't pay that to ruckmen. Thankfully Graham Wright was across these things at Collingwood when Grundy and Treloar were cut loose.

I leave Sam Walsh out of these discussions because his issues are entirely due to injury IMO, including gameplan exacerbating those injuries. He was on track to being one of the best midfielders in the game and I don't think lack of effort has ever been his problem.

Herein lies Voss's gameplan and I have always felt, he relies too heavily on the natural talent of the above mentioned players instead of a gameplan or team based system to carry us through the season. If these players are up and running at or near their best, we are a different side and everyone around them lifts and performs differently.

However, we have seen this season what our actual gameplan looks like without these players performing anywhere near their best, the whole thing falls apart. We have become too reliant on these 6 players, when in theory we should have 22 players sharing the work load and bringing each other into the game and complimenting each others strengths.

On the weekend, Hewett and Cripps dominated the 1st half, Freo shut them down which stagnated our dominance in the game. What did our coaching staff do - watched it happen.

 

[DangerousD]

Missed out on Pavlich again.

 

[carlton_99]

Same thing, Cerra has been Mr Mediocre why extend him long term? My comment was based on a suggestion by a poster that all list matters where on hold due to TDK

I think you have forgotten that Cerra was one of the few players consistently showing up in the first half of the season. Form dropped after that but have no doubt he can get back to his best.

The way our midfield has operated also doesn't really maximise his strengths imo. If you are going to play him as another Kennedy-like inside extractor then putting him at the same CBAs with Cripps/Hewett makes very little sense. Just like it didn't make sense when they played Kennedy in that CBA group. I still think we should be trying to get him more on the outside spreading from the contest. Very good two-way mid when he is doing this.

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

I think you have forgotten that Cerra was one of the few players consistently showing up in the first half of the season. Form dropped after that but have no doubt he can get back to his best.

The way our midfield has operated also doesn't really maximise his strengths imo. If you are going to play him as another Kennedy-like inside extractor then putting him at the same CBAs with Cripps/Hewett makes very little sense. Just like it didn't make sense when they played Kennedy in that CBA group. I still think we should be trying to get him more on the outside spreading from the contest. Very good two-way mid when he is doing this.

Not sure if it's to do with the hammys, but Cerra kicks like he's got concrete boots. Hope he can improve next year.

 

[carlton_99]

Not sure if it's to do with the hammys, but Cerra kicks like he's got concrete boots. Hope he can improve next year.

The whole team has looked like that tbf - definitely an area that needs work in the off-season. But at least with Cerra it was kind of an outlier year in that regard. Has always been a pretty nice kick of the football

 

[Gointocarlton]

I'd imagine a bunch of clubs have already been on the phone to see if they can shake him loose. A great mentor figure to have the in the back of the coaches box or on the bench.

We could well use his "kicking school classes" that he is famous for.

 

[Coops93]

It's hard because they are much loved and if they stay, I'm going to be taunted and ridiculed until I die. However, I enjoy the attention so ...

1. Charlie Curnow - has got by on natural talent for so long. He's a burst player. When he's up, he can pile on a few quick goals and change the momentum, but he never seeks to work through a full game and really hurt the opposition. He doesn't use his superior athleticism to chase down defenders and turn the ball back our way. He saves his energy for the glory stuff, the saving mark in defence or the wheel and go downtown goals. Has had the attributes to be one of the greats, but has half the workrate of a Jeremy Cameron.

2. Patrick Cripps - absolute gun player, heart and soul player and a legend of this club. However, when our backs are to the wall, he's no longer the one to change the course of a game. He went through his periods of doing too much and hurting the team, and periods of not knowing when to inject himself back into the game to halt momentum. Surrounding his Brownlow years, he has had some seriously so-so seasons. If there is one player we rely on to always lead the way, it's Crippa, and he doesn't always do that. Having said all that, he is still worth his salary.

3. Jacob Weitering - oh shit, another Bambi slaying. Another colossus most of the time, but out on the field, his voice and organisation doesn't seem to be there. Doesn't seem to be able to work in with some other players. Often leaves his man and leaves his opponent against lesser medium defenders, and can't take on certain types of forward, meaning that players like Brodie Kemp were thrown to the wolves at times. I worry about him as a future captain, because I'm not sure he can be that strong voice the team needs. How many key defenders are earning anywhere close to $1m per season?

4. Harry McKay - this one I am less sure about. He definitely is not worth anywhere near $1m per year, so that's not the problem. Harry has always had a flaky side, hit or miss. He's never been that big pack splitter that a team needs, and unless he is on a long lead down a wing, he's not ultra reliable with his hands. I definitely think the Coleman and other clubs sniffing around made Austin panic, instead of relying on Harry's relationship with teammates to slice $200k off his price.

TDK hasn't been paid yet, but we all agree he is not worth what is on offer elsewhere, or even what our supposed offer is. You just don't pay that to ruckmen. Thankfully Graham Wright was across these things at Collingwood when Grundy and Treloar were cut loose.

I leave Sam Walsh out of these discussions because his issues are entirely due to injury IMO, including gameplan exacerbating those injuries. He was on track to being one of the best midfielders in the game and I don't think lack of effort has ever been his problem.

I broadly agree but find it hard on Cripps, who always had to do the heavy lifting in the middle and has never had the support. The trying to do too much criticism, while fair, was a bit.. what else can he do? Because we saw what happened when he didn't, and it was that no one else did and everyone wondered why Cripps didn't step up. He's suffered from not having consistent support. Walsh was elite when fit and that's when we spike in finals etc., when he's not been healthy it's all been Cripps or bust.

Weiters in particular though is the odd one as early on he looked bang on to be the perfect backline general. Somewhere along the line that just didn't happen. I wonder if system has confused him and never really having a consistent backline broke that for him. Having a consistent and dependable support network around him makes the communication and delegation easier, but with the constant change it means he does weird things as well.

 

[woof39]

You can understand that the club would halt some of the bigger contracts until they had a TDK answer. Perhaps camp Jack felt disrespected that TDK was the clubs 1st priority and one thing led to another. It could be that if we signed TDK then they would not have offered Jack a contract at all, and this was the insulting part of the negotiations. Who knows.

Don't forget that player managers will do and say anything for a bit more leverage.

 

[CoachB]

I think you have forgotten that Cerra was one of the few players consistently showing up in the first half of the season. Form dropped after that but have no doubt he can get back to his best.

The way our midfield has operated also doesn't really maximise his strengths imo. If you are going to play him as another Kennedy-like inside extractor then putting him at the same CBAs with Cripps/Hewett makes very little sense. Just like it didn't make sense when they played Kennedy in that CBA group. I still think we should be trying to get him more on the outside spreading from the contest. Very good two-way mid when he is doing this.

Haven't forgotten, Cerra just doesn't move the needle on games, sure he has patches when he looks good but he drifts in and drifts out. But my whole point goes back to list management, why give him a long term extension and then tell others like JSOS everything on hold due to TDK?

 

[carlton_99]

Haven't forgotten, Cerra just doesn't move the needle on games, sure he has patches when he looks good but he drifts in and drifts out. But my whole point goes back to list management, why give him a long term extension and then tell others like JSOS everything on hold due to TDK?

Jack signed in late 2023 and then missed the whole of 2024 with an ACL. They probably wanted to see a significant patch of football in a new position before offering him a long-term contract. That fits with the reports that we put a contract to him a couple of months ago after showing a good patch of form in defence

 

[Coops93]

Herein lies Voss's gameplan and I have always felt, he relies too heavily on the natural talent of the above mentioned players instead of a gameplan or team based system to carry us through the season. If these players are up and running at or near their best, we are a different side and everyone around them lifts and performs differently.

However, we have seen this season what our actual gameplan looks like without these players performing anywhere near their best, the whole thing falls apart. We have become too reliant on these 6 players, when in theory we should have 22 players sharing the work load and bringing each other into the game and complimenting each others strengths.

On the weekend, Hewett and Cripps dominated the 1st half, Freo shut them down which stagnated our dominance in the game. What did our coaching staff do - watched it happen.

The only gameplan I've ever heard Voss talk about is contest and defence. Beyond that, from what you see on field, there never looked to be many more wrinkles to the gameplan than that. I'm sure there was, but you couldn't see them. If there was, he never preached on those like he did contest and defence, contest and defence and contest and defence.

 

[goreds]

It's hard because they are much loved and if they stay, I'm going to be taunted and ridiculed until I die. However, I enjoy the attention so ...

1. Charlie Curnow - has got by on natural talent for so long. He's a burst player. When he's up, he can pile on a few quick goals and change the momentum, but he never seeks to work through a full game and really hurt the opposition. He doesn't use his superior athleticism to chase down defenders and turn the ball back our way. He saves his energy for the glory stuff, the saving mark in defence or the wheel and go downtown goals. Has had the attributes to be one of the greats, but has half the workrate of a Jeremy Cameron.

2. Patrick Cripps - absolute gun player, heart and soul player and a legend of this club. However, when our backs are to the wall, he's no longer the one to change the course of a game. He went through his periods of doing too much and hurting the team, and periods of not knowing when to inject himself back into the game to halt momentum. Surrounding his Brownlow years, he has had some seriously so-so seasons. If there is one player we rely on to always lead the way, it's Crippa, and he doesn't always do that. Having said all that, he is still worth his salary.

3. Jacob Weitering - oh shit, another Bambi slaying. Another colossus most of the time, but out on the field, his voice and organisation doesn't seem to be there. Doesn't seem to be able to work in with some other players. Often leaves his man and leaves his opponent against lesser medium defenders, and can't take on certain types of forward, meaning that players like Brodie Kemp were thrown to the wolves at times. I worry about him as a future captain, because I'm not sure he can be that strong voice the team needs. How many key defenders are earning anywhere close to $1m per season?

4. Harry McKay - this one I am less sure about. He definitely is not worth anywhere near $1m per year, so that's not the problem. Harry has always had a flaky side, hit or miss. He's never been that big pack splitter that a team needs, and unless he is on a long lead down a wing, he's not ultra reliable with his hands. I definitely think the Coleman and other clubs sniffing around made Austin panic, instead of relying on Harry's relationship with teammates to slice $200k off his price.

TDK hasn't been paid yet, but we all agree he is not worth what is on offer elsewhere, or even what our supposed offer is. You just don't pay that to ruckmen. Thankfully Graham Wright was across these things at Collingwood when Grundy and Treloar were cut loose.

I leave Sam Walsh out of these discussions because his issues are entirely due to injury IMO, including gameplan exacerbating those injuries. He was on track to being one of the best midfielders in the game and I don't think lack of effort has ever been his problem.

Just checking if anyone on this board can confirm this?????

 

[SolGoodman]

It won't happen, but I'd absolutely give Lukey Power all the chance in the world at getting the senior coach gig.

It's undeniable what he's done for our kids, also undeniable he can coach a modern game style.

Not saying he should get the job, but I hope he's given a fair dinkum shot at it.

 

[Coops93]

It won't happen, but I'd absolutely give Lukey Power all the chance in the world at getting the senior coach gig.

It's undeniable what he's done for our kids, also undeniable he can coach a modern game style.

Not saying he should get the job, but I hope he's given a fair dinkum shot at it.

How is it undeniable he can coach a modern game style?

 

[Blue Pulse]

The only gameplan I've ever heard Voss talk about is contest and defence. Beyond that, from what you see on field, there never looked to be many more wrinkles to the gameplan than that. I'm sure there was, but you couldn't see them. If there was, he never preached on those like he did contest and defence, contest and defence and contest and defence.

Doc was interviewed on MMM yesterday evening and spoke of their roles as positional players, not so much as a game style and how each player or position had a role within the team. It sounded very laborious and detailed as to what they had to do.

In short they were speaking of under 17 football and the roles the players have and how complicated they are making the game. Basically, they have taken the fun out of the game, Doc sounded mentally exhausted just explaining roles and all he has been through leading to his retirement.

I understand each must have a role, but we, as a side, look like we are going to work and have lost the love for the game.

 

[SirSanchez]

Ross is about to lose NWM according to C4. That young list build goes up in smoke if he walks

Can we pretty pretty please do some sort of swap deal of TDK for NWM

 

[ferrisb]

Geelong carry on year after year, and have done for 20 yrs, as though there's no such thing as external pressure or media/fan pressure. Inside that club every day is the same, win or lose.

Over the last 25 years, Geelong has won 12%* more games than the next best team.

Over the last 25 years, Carlton has won 8% fewer games than the next worst team.

That would cause VERY different levels of external media/fan pressure...







* That's a bigger gap than between 2nd and 6th best!

 

[LFTWNG11]

I broadly agree but find it hard on Cripps, who always had to do the heavy lifting in the middle and has never had the support. The trying to do too much criticism, while fair, was a bit.. what else can he do? Because we saw what happened when he didn't, and it was that no one else did and everyone wondered why Cripps didn't step up. He's suffered from not having consistent support. Walsh was elite when fit and that's when we spike in finals etc., when he's not been healthy it's all been Cripps or bust.

Weiters in particular though is the odd one as early on he looked bang on to be the perfect backline general. Somewhere along the line that just didn't happen. I wonder if system has confused him and never really having a consistent backline broke that for him. Having a consistent and dependable support network around him makes the communication and delegation easier, but with the constant change it means he does weird things as well.

This narrative around Cripps is tiresome. Hasn’t had the support??! The guy burns teammates like it’s a hobby. It would help if he knew how to bring teammates into the game instead of trying to do everything himself.

 

[ferrisb]

AFL great’s business goes bust as staff told to keep quiet

‘They can’t really do anything.’

7news.com.au

So the business was struggling and management stopped paying out staff contracts...

That's EXACTLY what we need at Carlton!!!